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I had crafted a much more elegant explanation and my computer froze. These are not my conclusions but rather ones I have came across; I am neither a brain surgeon or a neuroscientist so here is my interpretation in a nutshell.
PTSD, depression, and shame are all associated with various components of the limbic system.
PTSD is often said to affect the Hippocampus, Amygdala, and Prefrontal Cortex.
Shame is controlled by a section of the brain called the ACC (Anterior Cingulate Cortex) which has two parts, one connected to the Prefrontal Cortex and one connected to the Amygdala. The ACC controls how the brains senses and processes stimuli which in turn cues the emotional response illicted (with help from the Amygdala - this also plays a role in motivation).
Depression is associated with neurotransmitters, but also with the Hypothalamus, Amygdala, and Hippocampus.
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The Hypothalamus controls body temp, hunger, thirst, fatigue, sleep, etc.
The ACC appears to play a role in a wide variety of functions, including cognitive function, such as decision making, empathy, and emotion.
The Amygdala performs a primary role in the processing and memory and also emotional reactions
The Hippocampus is a major component in how our memory functions.
"The Prefrontal Cortex is highly interconnected with much of the brain, including extensive connections with other cortical regions, as well as subcortical areas. The dorsal prefrontal cortex is especially interconnected with brain regions involved with attention, cognition and action, while the ventral prefrontal cortex interconnects with brain regions involved with emotion The Prefrontal Cortex also receives inputs from the brainstem arousal systems, and its function is particularly dependent on its neurochemical environment" (neruotransmitters which again play a large role in depression and stress)
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/limbicsystem.html
http://www.allaboutdepression.com/cau_02.html
Link Removed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex
just wanted to say thank you to all of you for this amazing, insightful, enormously personal thread. It has touched and disturbed me in a way I can't really understand right now, a way which makes me feel inclined to participate, yet somehow lost to know what to say. I shouldn't be surprised. Discussion of issues the complexity of shame is usually beyond me thesedays, which saddens me from an intellectual perspective, as I always rather fancied myself as someone who was always up for an intellectual discussion, but also leaves me feeling very empty emotionally and psychologically, because it's something I feel is critical for me to begin to process and to understand and articulate, and yet I can't. It feels too deep within me, to enmeshed in my soul or something... yuk, I hate the way that even sounds, but somehow it's true.
I hope that can be different some day. But let me just say that I found myself doing the "yes yes, it's exactly like that for me" in response to almost every word that's been written on this thread, so much so that it would have just been repetitively annoying for me to comment as such all the time.
So I'll just say thanks for the empathy, and for the free therapy session... I like the fact that I can come here for therapy in the middle of the night.
And thanks Wcdean for the biology reminder. Darnit, i've read up on this stuf so often but be buggered if i can ever remember which part does what... again, gone are those days of intellectual mastery it would seem. While I'm musing about it, I do find it insufferably confronting to see constant reminders of how much my cognitive processes just don't seem to work the way they used to. Concentration, decision making, word/sentence articulation, reasoning, any other high order mental process... I used to be very bright, I must admit that here, as uncomfortable as even that disclosure is. But now... now I can barely even remember that person, and it's not just my failing memory.
Sad... so damned sad.
Sorry everyone, for the downer.
Maddog
I hope that can be different some day. But let me just say that I found myself doing the "yes yes, it's exactly like that for me" in response to almost every word that's been written on this thread, so much so that it would have just been repetitively annoying for me to comment as such all the time.
So I'll just say thanks for the empathy, and for the free therapy session... I like the fact that I can come here for therapy in the middle of the night.
And thanks Wcdean for the biology reminder. Darnit, i've read up on this stuf so often but be buggered if i can ever remember which part does what... again, gone are those days of intellectual mastery it would seem. While I'm musing about it, I do find it insufferably confronting to see constant reminders of how much my cognitive processes just don't seem to work the way they used to. Concentration, decision making, word/sentence articulation, reasoning, any other high order mental process... I used to be very bright, I must admit that here, as uncomfortable as even that disclosure is. But now... now I can barely even remember that person, and it's not just my failing memory.
Sad... so damned sad.
Sorry everyone, for the downer.
Maddog
"Without sadness you cannot know happiness"
Not a downer (IMO), just a little dose of our reality. It's okay for you to be sad; we'll be here when you're ready to share. That person is still there, somewhere, he just hasn't come out to play in a while.
As much as we would all like for this to be a "direct path" to mental health, it's not; it's a journey with many crossroads. Think of it as a highway; there are several exits. Each exit may offer what we seek, or maybe it doesn't. Maybe it holds what someone else is seeking; once we exit, check it out for ourselves, and decide it's not quite what we're looking for, we get back on the freeway and look for the next exit.
We're all different and yet mostly the same. It's finding what works for you; all anyone here can offer is their personal experience and hope that it helps someone else. It is somewhat trial and error, but by sharing our experiences we get different perspectives on what may possibly help us as individuals; this alone should definitely let us know that we're heading in the right direction, just maybe not the exact exit. That's for you to figure out in your own time.
Me? I've already said it but it took me 14 years; others longer, some shorter. But nobody could do a damn thing for me until I said "I'm ready; I'm willing to make a change; I want my life back and I want ALL of it back, not the hollow shell I've been living in."
This is something my father said to me the other day "what's more than what you've allowed this disorder to take from you is what you've allowed it to take from everyone who deserves to know the real you." It sounds like that may be true with you too Maddog; I can't say for sure...but it sounds like you've already said it. You have the strength to do something about it, maybe not alone but that is the reason this forum exists.
You make the call, coach. We'll sit here cheering on the sidelines until you need us on the field. Everything in time.
Not a downer (IMO), just a little dose of our reality. It's okay for you to be sad; we'll be here when you're ready to share. That person is still there, somewhere, he just hasn't come out to play in a while.
As much as we would all like for this to be a "direct path" to mental health, it's not; it's a journey with many crossroads. Think of it as a highway; there are several exits. Each exit may offer what we seek, or maybe it doesn't. Maybe it holds what someone else is seeking; once we exit, check it out for ourselves, and decide it's not quite what we're looking for, we get back on the freeway and look for the next exit.
We're all different and yet mostly the same. It's finding what works for you; all anyone here can offer is their personal experience and hope that it helps someone else. It is somewhat trial and error, but by sharing our experiences we get different perspectives on what may possibly help us as individuals; this alone should definitely let us know that we're heading in the right direction, just maybe not the exact exit. That's for you to figure out in your own time.
Me? I've already said it but it took me 14 years; others longer, some shorter. But nobody could do a damn thing for me until I said "I'm ready; I'm willing to make a change; I want my life back and I want ALL of it back, not the hollow shell I've been living in."
This is something my father said to me the other day "what's more than what you've allowed this disorder to take from you is what you've allowed it to take from everyone who deserves to know the real you." It sounds like that may be true with you too Maddog; I can't say for sure...but it sounds like you've already said it. You have the strength to do something about it, maybe not alone but that is the reason this forum exists.
You make the call, coach. We'll sit here cheering on the sidelines until you need us on the field. Everything in time.
AngelKeeperJ
Sponsor
Wow, that is BIG, and TRUE!! Your father is a wise man!
I don't know if I could feel shame without being depressed about it.
I don't understand it Brat, and really don't necessarily know if I need to. All I need to know is that they are related; I'll leave it to my doctors to know the science. I'm just open and honest with the docs and let them do what they're trained to do. You do have to trust them though, which is a big thing for us.
Look at it this way, they (the drs.) are sitting there staring you in the eyes and will have to see you week after week. All of us here are essentially trusting people we've never met before with our souls, and we may never see or meet each other.
You have all of us here for free!
That's big, though, and in itself can seem like you're already losing before you've even started. When faced with a challenge, what is your approach to tackling it (any challenge)?
For me, my journey began long before I sought help from any doctor or therapist. It was me processing information on my own; before I could articulate where I stood on the events and how they affected me, I had to know where I stood. The journey begins in yourself. I'll tell you flat out, coming here every day has helped me WAAAAAAAAAY more than any pay-by-the-hour, "Oh great session where's my check", "Wow we're really making progress but ooops out of time" therapist could have ever helped me in weeks or even months for that matter. To tell you the truth, I draw my own conclusions then go in there and 90% of the time I already know what he is going to tell me.
"To thine own self be true" not some guy whose known me a week and thinks he has all my answers. I told him the first day that I'd be the easiest patient he ever had because I already knew what I needed, and a lot of it is to just talk about it, get it out, get it off your chest. That's why this place has helped me more than he could ever possibly. It's acknowledging why you feel this way, and sometimes accepting that there is no "answer". That has been the most difficult thing for me to accept; there is no "why did this happen to me?" I've come to more revelations by talking with people here than I came to on my own in 14 years; so if the only resources you have are yourself and your support network then I think that's all you really need to see both substantial and significant improvement.
It happened to me, and I can't change that it happened. I can change how I choose to let it affect me.
That's big, though, and in itself can seem like you're already losing before you've even started. When faced with a challenge, what is your approach to tackling it (any challenge)?
For me, my journey began long before I sought help from any doctor or therapist. It was me processing information on my own; before I could articulate where I stood on the events and how they affected me, I had to know where I stood. The journey begins in yourself. I'll tell you flat out, coming here every day has helped me WAAAAAAAAAY more than any pay-by-the-hour, "Oh great session where's my check", "Wow we're really making progress but ooops out of time" therapist could have ever helped me in weeks or even months for that matter. To tell you the truth, I draw my own conclusions then go in there and 90% of the time I already know what he is going to tell me.
"To thine own self be true" not some guy whose known me a week and thinks he has all my answers. I told him the first day that I'd be the easiest patient he ever had because I already knew what I needed, and a lot of it is to just talk about it, get it out, get it off your chest. That's why this place has helped me more than he could ever possibly. It's acknowledging why you feel this way, and sometimes accepting that there is no "answer". That has been the most difficult thing for me to accept; there is no "why did this happen to me?" I've come to more revelations by talking with people here than I came to on my own in 14 years; so if the only resources you have are yourself and your support network then I think that's all you really need to see both substantial and significant improvement.
It happened to me, and I can't change that it happened. I can change how I choose to let it affect me.
Sandra, I am in the same boat. I currently do not have insurance and haven't been to therapy in almost 4 months, outside of a support group for rape and domestic violence victims. I know I need much more than that and I also know that I can't afford to go without therapy for any longer (just went to the hospital this last week). The support group leader gave me lots of resources in my area that will see me for free or close to nothing. I don't know where you are but I'm sure there is something like this in your area. You just might have to dig pretty hard to find it and even when you do, you might have to fight for someone to take the time for you. Don't give up! There may be another member in your area who could even provide you with this information. Good luck! I know how hard it is to feel like you are making progress without the support of a therapist.
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