Relationship She wants to leave

[Sapper1]

Hi all, combat vet here and I can fortunately say a former PTSD sufferer. I’ll try to keep this as short as possible. My wife and I have been married since my discharge from the military, we dealt with my PTSD for yrs and finally got through it with the help of counseling and some medication. After yrs of being well, I decided 18mo ago to try to get off the meds. I did. And I have been fine. Unfortunately, when getting off the meds, my wife went into a downward spiral of her own from dealing with my past, I guess from being strong for the kids and herself by shielding away my mental and emotion abuse,, that she developed Vicarious (or Secondary) PTSD. It has been a very rough and trying 18mo to say the least. During this time she started to confide to another guy. She realized she started having feelings for him. So before anything else happened she ended it because she wanted to work on her marriage. She confessed this to me after we started a temporary separation that she wanted more than me. The past 3 months have been rough and even though I have been devistated by this all I’m fighting to remain understanding and keep an open mind. I’ve told her that even though this happened and yes it hurts,, I understand how it happened. I know she haven’t been feeling the love for me that she has for yrs. she’s also admitted it. Now, it seems we’re discussing a separation to where she would move out. She feels guilty for what has been going on, for hurting me and gets anxiety just being home with me. She can’t understand why she left herself get to that point with the other guy when she never would’ve before so she feels that she really doesn’t love me and it creates guilt of watching me go through this. I get it. I’ve been there. I’ve lost that same love for her when I went though it myself. I’ve tried explaining this to her that I do believe it’s the ptsd and not her true feelings and that her love for me will come back. She’s also tried meds that I recommended because they helped me but seem to be making her worse. She got off them so I’m trying to convince her to stay together. Under one roof. Sleep in our bed. And fight through this together. So when there ARE good days and hopefully more soon with being off meds, that we’ll be together to enjoy it. Try to end the guilt because (thanks to some things I read on this forum recently) I’ve realized her ptsd and mine are not the same. And everything I’ve been doing has made it worse. Because I’ve been comparing mine to hers. But to give me a chance to do it better and support her in a diff way. Try to just let me “be here” instead of basically trying to make her get better. She said she needs to think about it which is good but if I do get that chance,, what will help? I will take any and all advice from both sides. We have been married 15yrs. We have loved ea other and dated on off in school for 28yrs. I’m afraid if we take the step of moving out, that will be the end of us.

 

[Friday]

I’ve realized her ptsd and mine are not the same. And everything I’ve been doing has made it worse. Because I’ve been comparing mine to hers.

That’s one of the hardest damn things, isn’t it? The 180 degree differences that this disorder can take. Where, in the same spot:

- I would want to be grabbed onto, shouted down, or go toe to toe... they want space, calm, quiet. But where I would want space, they feel abandoned. :confused: It’s backwards! Aaargh.
- I get angry, they get scared
- I minimize, they catastrophize
- I go cold & hard, anger gets through, &not much else; they go numb & weepy, cause sadness gets through, & not much else
- I want to sit in understood silence, they want to talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk
- I want solutions, they want to be validated
- I want empathy, they want sympathy
- I lash out, they crumple
- I pull back to protect others, they lash out knocking people flat
- I need to blow off steam, they need to relax

My kid is the only person I’ve been willing to shift gears for, when we’re that out of sync, and we’re not 180, more like 90? About half his reactions are in line with mine, but the other half are polar opposite. I’ve learned I really need to take a beat, rather than respond automatically, when he’s spinning out. Really evaluate what he’s doing, to see what he needs/wants... rather than just do what I would need/want done in the same situation. That it’s better to delay, than to wade in where angels fear to tread (never been an angel :sneaky: ), and f*ck shit up worse that it already was :banghead:. Especially if I’m running hot, at all. Because in addition to PTSD? Caregiver burnout, emotional exhaustion, is very very real. Learning how to be there for him? Has involved waaaaaay more stepping back, to evaluate or to take care of myself, than I ever dreamed possible. Much less as necessary as it’s been.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Has she been diagnosed with PTSD?

 

[Sapper1]

Has she been diagnosed with PTSD?

Yes

 

[Mytime]

Is she in therapy for her PTSD? Did she do any kind of therapy for herself when she was supporting you and the kids?

If you can sit down and set some boundaries. find out if there’s things that make her feel uncomfortable. Like always talking about the relationship or she fears you’ll want to talk about it. Setting a boundary that there will be no relationship talk in the house. If something needs to be talk about it’s done outside the home. Go for a walk, a drive whatever. But it’s not going to happen in the house. Can you agree to live in just a friendship right now, until she’s in a better place to deal with the marriage.
Going to a marriage counsellor who has experience with PTSD. It can help you both understand each other and help with communication.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I’m going to take a different approach and look at this through the eyes of a long term supporter of a combat vet. I’m not trying to be offensive, but since you’re a supporter now, the shoe is on the other foot.

my wife went into a downward spiral of her own from dealing with my past, I guess from being strong for the kids and herself by shielding away my mental and emotion abuse,, that she developed Vicarious (or Secondary) PTSD.

Ok... this may not all be an issue of her PTSD. Compassion fatigue and caregiver burnout are very very real. It is exhausting being the supporting partner. You’re the target for lashing out behaviors because you’re close and you’re safe... so like you said, emotional abuse. You deal with that because you love your partner, but they’re numbing. So you get no support, no affection, no intimacy, no closeness. It does a number on your head. It makes you feel unloveable and worthless. The person who supposedly loves you the most can’t stand to speak, touch, or be around you. Plus they’re yelling at you all the time.

That shit grates on your soul after awhile, especially if your partner is very symptomatic, refusing treatment, or generally unwilling to work on themselves. What makes it worse is guilt... “they’re unwell, how selfish is it to feel this way when they have PTSD?“

Sometimes it’s all too much for a person to take.

I’ve tried explaining this to her that I do believe it’s the ptsd and not her true feelings and that her love for me will come back.

If she is burnt out, those are all perfectly valid emotions that have nothing to do with any kind of mental health situation. It may not be numbing from PTSD. She may have hit her breaking point.

It sounds like the other guy may have been attentive and supportive to her when she was needing it and couldn’t get it at home.

If you want my advice, I’d listen to her and take her mental health out of the situation. What she is saying is valid and real, not a symptom or tic that will go away with the right medication or treatment. That means you are going to have to do a lot of work on the relationship yourself.

 

[Sapper1]

Is she in therapy for her PTSD? Did she do any kind of therapy for herself when she was supporting you and the kids?

She’s been seeing a counselor but not for ptsd which is what we’re discussing now

I’m going to take a different approach and look at this through the eyes of a long term supporter of a combat vet. I’m not trying to be offensive, but since you’re a supporter now, the shoe is on the other foot.

Ok... this may not all be an issue of her PTSD. Compassion fatigue and caregiver burnout are very very real. It is exhausting being the supporting partner. You’re the target for lashing out behaviors because you’re close and you’re safe... so like you said, emotional abuse. You deal with that because you love your partner, but they’re numbing. So you get no support, no affection, no intimacy, no closeness. It does a number on your head. It makes you feel unloveable and worthless. The person who supposedly loves you the most can’t stand to speak, touch, or be around you. Plus they’re yelling at you all the time.

That shit grates on your soul after awhile, especially if your partner is very symptomatic, refusing treatment, or generally unwilling to work on themselves. What makes it worse is guilt... “they’re unwell, how selfish is it to feel this way when they have PTSD?“

Sometimes it’s all too much for a person to take.



If she is burnt out, those are all perfectly valid emotions that have nothing to do with any kind of mental health situation. It may not be numbing from PTSD. She may have hit her breaking point.

It sounds like the other guy may have been attentive and supportive to her when she was needing it and couldn’t get it at home.

If you want my advice, I’d listen to her and take her mental health out of the situation. What she is saying is valid and real, not a symptom or tic that will go away with the right medication or treatment. That means you are going to have to do a lot of work on the relationship yourself.

I understand your point of view. The reason I feel the way I do is that her symptoms started 8yrs after I’ve been “cured” although that’s not a great choice of words. But we’ve had an amazing marriage up to this point. During my struggle we had bad times. But just as many good times. Since her struggle started I e been very supportive but she’s def pushed away. Idk honestly. Maybe you’re right.

If you can sit down and set some boundaries. find out if there’s things that make her feel uncomfortable. Like always talking about the relationship or she fears you’ll want to talk about it. Setting a boundary that there will be no relationship talk in the house. If something needs to be talk about it’s done outside the home. Go for a walk, a drive whatever. But it’s not going to happen in the house. Can you agree to live in just a friendship right now, until she’s in a better place to deal with the marriage.
Going to a marriage counsellor who has experience with PTSD. It can help you both understand each other and help with communication.

Thank you! I like your boundaries idea. The rest is exactly what I talked to her about after writing my initial post. That we work through this as friends. And worry about our marriage later. I’ve also recommended seeing a professional who deals with ptsd.

 

[Sweetpea76]

The reason I feel the way I do is that her symptoms started 8yrs after I’ve been “cured” although that’s not a great choice of words.

I can see why you wouldn’t think this is related to caregiver burnout because you’ve been doing better lately, but I noticed a few things you said that put that idea on my radar.

After yrs of being well, I decided 18mo ago to try to get off the meds. I did. And I have been fine.

My partner is a combat vet too, and we’ve been through the whole VA medication roller coaster... over medication, a few med switches, as well as him coming off different meds. Each time it happens it’s rough. I don’t know if he’s too busy taking care of his own mental state to see how rough it really is, or how all over the place he is mentally, but if I even hear the words “med switch” or “coming off xxx” it makes me tense. He gets more symptomatic, and I have the joy of being the crash-pad for all that. Ultimately it’s a good thing when it’s all said and done, but it is not a good time during.

Unfortunately, when getting off the meds, my wife went into a downward spiral of her own from dealing with my past, I guess from being strong for the kids and herself by shielding away my mental and emotion abuse,, that she developed Vicarious (or Secondary) PTSD.

^^^ This seems to back this up.

Perhaps after a long period of stability (the 6 or so years you were feeling better before deciding to come off the meds), she saw some instability while you were coming off the meds and it set her off. Like all the stress and memories from when you were very ill came back and she couldn’t handle the idea of going through that all again.

Perhaps take the randomness of her “down slide” out of the equation... like assuming it was a mental break that just happened 8 years later out of the blue. There may have been a catalyst that set everything off that makes sense.

Of course, all I know is what you’re saying... but it kind of made my supporter spidey-sense tingle.

 

[Sapper1]

I can see why you wouldn’t think this is related to caregiver burnout because you’ve been doing better lately, but I noticed a few things you said that put that idea on my radar.



My partner is a combat vet too, and we’ve been through the whole VA medication roller coaster... over medication, a few med switches, as well as him coming off different meds. Each time it happens it’s rough. I don’t know if he’s too busy taking care of his own mental state to see how rough it really is, or how all over the place he is mentally, but if I even hear the words “med switch” or “coming off xxx” it makes me tense. He gets more symptomatic, and I have the joy of being the crash-pad for all that. Ultimately it’s a good thing when it’s all said and done, but it is not a good time during.



^^^ This seems to back this up.

Perhaps after a long period of stability (the 6 or so years you were feeling better before deciding to come off the meds), she saw some instability while you were coming off the meds and it set her off. Like all the stress and memories from when you were very ill came back and she couldn’t handle the idea of going through that all again.

Perhaps take the randomness of her “down slide” out of the equation... like assuming it was a mental break that just happened 8 years later out of the blue. There may have been a catalyst that set everything off that makes sense.

Of course, all I know is what you’re saying... but it kind of made my supporter spidey-sense tingle.

I appreciate your, all and any advise. I’ll take any I can get. Her counselor is the one who came up with the vicarious ptsd. But I never looked into caregiver burnout. I’d like to seek a professional that has an expertise in this area to find an answer and help her through it. Even if it means me stepping away. I’m definitely going to look at it from every angle I can though. Thank you!

 

[Sweetpea76]

I’m not saying she DOESNT have PTSD... especially if she has been diagnosed.

I do believe it’s the ptsd and not her true feelings

I’m saying watch out for this^^^ assumption. Her feelings may be perfectly valid from burnout and not emotional numbing from PTSD.

 

[Sapper1]

I’m not saying she DOESNT have PTSD... especially if she has been diagnosed.



I’m saying watch out for this^^^ assumption. Her feelings may be perfectly valid from burnout and not emotional numbing from PTSD.

Oh. Gotcha. If that’s the case, do you feel that those feelings come have a chance of coming back or are we ruined?

 

[Sweetpea76]

Anything is possible, especially with a long relationship and family. If it’s going to work it’s going to take some time and effort though. I would say pay attention to what she’s saying, and acknowledge that her feelings are real and valid... and not just some med reaction or mental health thing. You need to be the person she can lean on and trust.