Sick Of The Term 'ptsd Is No Excuse'

[Loveneverfails]

It seems like every where I look around the forum these days I see 'Ptsd is no excuse for...' and in many ways that is correct. PTSD is no excuse for adultery, no excuse for violent behavior, no excuse for saying hurtful things- but the context in which it's being used is in many ways offensive and not entirely correct. I've seen people say PTSD is no excuse for isolating, no excuse for yelling, no excuse for being emotionally unavailable.

These are actual symptoms of the disorder according to NIMH. While there is certainly no excuse for bad behavior(a person must take responsibility for their actions no matter the underlying factors for the behavior), it is unfair to entirely dismiss what they are going through and label them as a bad person simply because we have PTSD and 'would never do that'. And I would go so far as to add that it is unwise to council supporters that they simply have a cruel and selfish partner because their partner has PTSD and is struggling with it in a way that we find distasteful.

These people are reaching out for help at an extremely emotional and vulnerable time and our answer based on the limited(often one sided) knowledge we're getting is to tell them oh that person is just mean? We're telling people in committed relationships this. We're telling married people this. PTSD is no excuse, but it is also no excuse to tell someone the person they love is a horrible human being. In times of physical danger and other forms of abuse, it is certainly appropriate to advice them to leave, but it's becoming more and more common place to see it in cases of typical PTSD characteristics. Just as the PTSD sufferer must take responsibility for their actions against their supporter, we need to take responsibility for the advice we're giving. Telling every supporter who posts that their sufferer isn't meeting their needs that they're with a bad partner is in all likelihood not true and unintentionally(I hope) playing games with other peoples lives.

 

[HëllaBubz]

I've seen people say PTSD is no excuse for isolating, no excuse for yelling, no excuse for being emotionally unavailable.

When I see this, I certainly agree. But it would completely depend on the degree of 'offence', and whether or not the sufferer is allowing themselves a lot of leash in lieu of getting help.

I have seen a trend where issues are being asked about - and most of the time it's because the sufferer cannot or will not help themselves.
PTSD is a poison, and we are the unwilling weapons, regardless of whether or not we find

their partner has PTSD and is struggling with it in a way that we find distasteful

, most of us on here recognise danger when we see it.

I certainly agree that

Telling every supporter who posts that their sufferer isn't meeting their needs that they're with a bad partner

is wrong, however they are with an UNHEALTHY partner, and if the supporter truly wants to support the sufferer, sometimes they really do need to withdraw.

Supporters cannot support if they are injured by the sufferers, so regardless of whether

the person they love is a horrible human being

, or if it is

their partner has PTSD and is struggling with it

, sometimes the advice of getting out of there is wise, but only temporary.

These people are reaching out for help at an extremely emotional and vulnerable time and our answer based on the limited(often one sided) knowledge we're getting is to tell them oh that person is just mean? We're telling people in committed relationships this. We're telling married people this.

This is a definite danger, and given how many of us on here have come from domestic/physical/sexual abuse, it is much too easy for us to slam a label on, instead of being a little more constructive with our feedback.

 

[Midwestanthony]

In my eyes, anyway, there's a difference between an excuse and a reason. When I look back at my bursts of anger, particularly, I feel shame and regret. However, learning that anger is related with PTSD has helped me move forward and maybe recognize anger emerging before it fully manifests. But there's nothing I can do to go back in time and take back those outbursts. PTSD was a reason for my anger...in retrospect, I can see that. If, now, I let myself get overwhelmed with anger, even though I know better, I'd get disappointed in myself and consider ptsd an excuse rather than a reason. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Leah123]

My diagnosis has helped me put my behavior in context. I see I have symptoms, just as with other illnesses. However, although I didn't cause my illness, I'm the infected one, and it's up to me to take precautions not to harm others. PTSD is an explanation, not an excuse. That doesn't mean I and others don't deserve help, compassion, constructive feedback instead of knee-jerk reactions, but in some cases, badly managed PTSD can lead to relationship breakups and many other serious negative consequences. We can't overlook the damage we can do and expect others to bear with us if we can't mitigate our symptoms for them. It's a balance each person and each relationship must define for itself, though.

 

[Midwestanthony]

Yeah, that's really well-said, Leah. Nicely done.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I really hope people are seeing the entirety of my post, where I point out that abuse is unacceptable. I'm not saying we should put up with whatever people with PTSD do, I'm pointing out that even in non PTSD cases, relationships hit snags where one person does something that hurts the others feelings. It doesn't mean they're selfish or bad, it's part of the journey that we struggle with different issues through out our life time and sometimes we make hurtful mistakes. Advising someone to leave on principle in cases where abuse is NOT occurring is not a wise course. They must ultimately make up their own minds of course, but leaving should not be the immediate choice when they're upset and NOT being abused. Communication and work are the first steps. Counseling, personal therapy and so on are logical choices. It's very easy to tell someone we've never met, whose side of the story is the only information we have, to kick their partner to the curb. But this is their life, their family and their heart. We need to be more careful what we're telling people.

 

[rightkindofme]

Well I only tell girls who are in the first blush of their relationship to leave if the person treats them badly. If someone does stuff that is over the top in the first three-ish months then they are probably not capable of pulling their end of a relationship. If that is terrible advice so be it it. I don't tend to tell people who have been married a long time that they should leave unless there is a major pattern of long-term abuse.

My husband has done things that were flat out abusive. We went to therapy. We worked through it. Those behaviors don't continue.

I say that PTSD is not an excuse because I need to be reminded. I have all of the symptoms. I have to keep them under control. I have two small children I am responsible for all day every day. I cannot let my symptoms get out of my control.

It doesn't matter that I have all the reasons in the world to be an abusive monster. I still am not allowed to do it. I have a lot of reasons to want to isolate and be away from people but then I would neglect my kids. It doesn't matter that I have good reasons for all of the things I have done historically I still have to change if I want to hold up my end of a relationship.

I don't think I get a pass because I am mentally ill. That just means that unfortunately I have to work a lot harder at being consistent. My husband struggles with consistency and he doesn't have as good of an "excuse". I don't get to just not be consistent because I have PTSD.

It sucks. It is very hard.

I don't think I tell people to leave at the first sign of a problem. But I believe that people with PTSD are responsible for maintaining their end of a relationship. I think more than a lot of people I believe that I am not owed a relationship with anyone. I don't treat relationships like they will just be there no matter what. I have to be good enough to deserve them or people *should* leave because that is better for them. It is hard.

So I agree that people are often told to leave at the first side of a problem and that isn't very useful but I think that too many people stay long after they should leave. So it's kind of hard to figure out what is right when you don't know people.

All advice on the internet should be taken with a salt-lick the size of Montana.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I've stayed with people who have abused, because I see that they are hurting. I've come to learn that someone controlling, physically or sexually hurting a partner is an absolute no.

But when I've heard people say that their partner is not talking to them often enough, is not telling them where they are going or is isolating themselves, then I feel that the supporter is being over controlling. It might be an unorthodox relationship, it might not be like the neighbors relationships, and there will be some people who want 'normal' and perhaps need to leave and find it. But it is perfectly loving to have a relationship where you just allow the person to be where they need to be and to have their own lives. Both partners have a right to say where there boundaries of personal space lie. I think its wrong to make out the supporter is the victim if they are trying to stop a person from isolating.

 

[Abstract]

I want to come back here and say more. But to start I think much of what has been said here is true. For example I think loverneverfails, rightkindofme and meadowsweet are simultaneously right. So much of it is in the detail and comes down to semantics. But language is very powerful and it is often the subtleties that make all the difference. It makes me want to write out something with careful attention to the nuances about the topic.

I feel for supporters and think that both labelling all behaviour as PTSD and labelling PTSD behaviour as automatically about lack of care for them is equally potentially damaging.

And I feel for us when we are lumped in with bad behaviour when that behaviour is seen as PTSD and when our PTSD behaviour or symptoms are seen as purposeful and as lack of care for others. Or worse.

And then separate to these issues there is another aspect of this relating to what each human being deserves and needs for themselves and their own particular vulnerabilities. But sometimes that seems to be interpreted through the lens of behaviour being meant to be harmful.

 

[rainy_daze]

I can recall saying to a supporter that PTSD wasn't an excuse for something her partner was doing, and I still stick by what I said. I think when a person is going out of their way to deliberately hurt and/or cause psychological suffering to their partner, even if they are suffering from PTSD, it is really no excuse, and I don't think abuse in the various forms it comes in is one of the syptoms. Anger is one, but, from my own point of view, to use the illness as an excuse to damage other people, it didn't sit well with me at all. So, I classed a situation as being abusive based on the posts that person had put up - and they had asked for advice and so I gave it to them. I suppose the lesson is to be aware of what advice you are posting, but by the same token people should be aware of what they are asking for by posting and being accepting or ignoring the posts that are all in response. What you chose to take from responses would be your decision, but I can see how when a person is vulnerable they could take advice that they might regret later on. Still,

All advice on the internet should be taken with a salt-lick the size of Montana.

especially huge life altering decisions you are going to make. I've asked for advice on here, and got some amazing ideas and support, and I'm very grateful. I've asked at vulnerable times too, but ultimately I know life is up to you, and you decide what to do with it.

Interesting thread, loveneverfails, it's got me thinking. I'm glad there is agreement on PTSD being no excuse for abuse of any kind, in the sense that the person suffering needs to get help and treatment for that sort of behaviour, and at the same time a supporter needs to keep themselves safe in a situation like that.

I can't say I've seen the phrase used in other contexts around the forum, but I assume you mean something along the lines of a supporter saying something like "Mrs X goes through cycles where she barely speaks to me and rarely wants me to be physically affectionate to her" and a response has been "Mrs X having PTSD is no excuse for her ignoring your emotional needs by isolating and cutting herself off from you", even though as a sufferer you would probably think to yourself that sounds like symptoms are a strong possibility and the reason Mrs X is acting that way, as opposed to a relationship simply being dead.

This is a definite danger, and given how many of us on here have come from domestic/physical/sexual abuse, it is much too easy for us to slam a label on, instead of being a little more constructive with our feedback.

Exactly. I think that's why it's good to have sections on the forum for supporters, and for supporters to know if they're asking for support from people with PTSD the responses will come from a different sort of context (maybe). And because we're not all the same, you'll get varying posts of us all reacting to something which may sound like a potentially dangerous situation :confused::eek:.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I'm really not going to clarify again, but I am kind of disappointed. Because it seems like people are jumping to conclusions instead of reading the entirety of my post.

 

[Abstract]

I see Loveneverfails as only discussing things that do not include abuse. Abuse is separate to this conversation and nothing excuses it so we are putting that aside. Everyone agrees with that. Nothing excuses abuse.