Social Class And Ptsd

[Nevermore]

That is true @J'qel and all those things would make it even more stressful. I was meaning the actual illness doesn't differentiate between rich or poor, as death doesn't either.
I know what you say about the way people stereotype others - they do that in many ways - social class, size and shape, age, Colour, gender etc etc etc
I hate all forms of stereotyping. Think it's a type of mental laziness that can also be pretty dangerous
I think that's what I don't like about this thread!

 

[EmmaOwl]

You can't buy your way out-but you can:
1-afford needed medications
2-afford therapy
3-have somewhere to live
4-have food to eat
5-have clothing to wear that doesn't have people treat you like scum
6-have access to the internet and phone regularly
7-have the means to pay for activities
8-have stable finances (no stressing about bills)
9-afford a pet or support animal (and a living situation that allows for it)
..... Need I continue?
It isn't "hey I have money! Go me!" It's about being able to afford essential services and live in a stable enough manner that you can focus on getting better. Many people with a variety of illnesses simply can't-and that impacts them every single day.

I REALLY think this is a monetary issue and not a matter of class. You can be in a high social circle but be cash-poor. I'm reading a book about J.M. Barrie, and he basically subsidized a family with 5 boys - because he was fond of them. They were du Mauriers (as in the writer Daphne) on one side and the father's side also came from a higher class that had money but only in the past. They were expected to live a certain way, yet scrambled to pay for these standards. They were perceived as upper-crust as could be - but they were cash poor. This is Great Britain in the 1890's, but this is not an uncommon situation even in the United States today. Perception is everything, when you're talking about social class. Say you go to a certain university. People are going to make assumptions about how you live at home. Does your family value education? Yes. Otherwise you wouldn't go through the huge effort that may be involved. Class is an assumption, whereas money itself is ignored - whether you are on scholarship or not, or struggling to pay bills while others may be more carefree, that doesn't matter. Think of the phrase "bettering yourself." That is clearly about class, and has very little to do with how much actual paper money you have.

EVERYTHING listed here involves money, not class. You also don't mention people who can afford some of the 9 things on your list, but not others. For example, there are probably lots of people who can afford food and shelter but maybe not clothes and then medication and therapy prices are sky-high. It's not one-or-the-other, there are so many factors involved. Maybe medication is subsized, but not therapy. It is so variable.

I find the title of the thread dons an worn vintage.

I believe the term "social class" was used merely for convenience sake

Yes, but why is social class a more convenient thing than just saying "money". You have money for each of these things, or you don't. Social class, in this case, doesn't compute in this and I think everyone (including me) is getting further and further away from the point of the OP and diverting into other issues which should maybe be in a different discussion.

 

[EmmaOwl]

I was meaning the actual illness doesn't differentiate between rich or poor, as death doesn't either.....

I think this is much more on topic, Thanks @Nevermore for making this statement so clearly. My answer was very convoluted!

 

[Runlola72]

My dad left my mom and me poor as dirt when he took off when I was 3. We were on food stamps for a while, lived in a very questionable apartment complex where I have some traumatic memories. After she remarried, we were upgraded to lower middle class, then middle class by the time I was in high school. This is all economically speaking though.... Socially I guess solidly middle class, given the levels of education of my parents and step father. Though my older step brother (who abused me) was always low class, in trouble with cops, in prison as an adult etc

 

[Nevermore]

Yes, so true @Allie D. I had a very dear friend who came from a wealthy family, university educated etc etc, also a victim of paedophile priests in the Catholic Church. He became an alcoholic, he couldn't work, he lost his home, his family cut him off.
He ended up homeless and died on the street ):
His suffering was immense.
He suffered from this kind of stereotyping as people judged him very harshly for his fall from grace as he was "born with a silver spoon".
It made his suffering and self hatred even worse.
Social class is beside the point. PTSD and mental illness can rip everything away from a person, and in his case brought more pressure, judgment and shame to an already tortured soul.
stereotypes and generalisations are never the truth.

 

[J'qel]

We're not using "money" because social class is partly perception-and as you pointed out, can be wrong. A middle class individual can "fool" someone into thinking their upper class by living deep in debt.

Keep in mind that most of the folks we're talking about when we say "lower class" are actually very poor folks. Not folks who have the credit to go into debt, but the folks who couldn't get a loan if their lives depended on it. Not folks who have a brand new BMW in the drive but no furniture, but people with barely a clunker and used furniture, if very much.

We're talking people who walk into the bank, and get immediately ignored. People who are already in debt *just keeping the lights on* in a cruddy apartment.

People who have the ability to obtain a mortgage are usually not lower class. They may be cash poor, but equity counts. It counts for a *lot*.

The people who have their new car but the crap food, the excellent address but no furniture, are most likely actually middle class with poor spending habits. Those are common enough, but not really representative of the majority. There are outliers-folks who don't manage money well, and folks who are trying to "keep up" for one reason or another.

If you took in their equity and then balanced it out with income and debts, they'd still be above those who are trying to raise a child on minimum wage with highschool education. If they weren't they couldn't make the car or mortgage payments (which combined are probably more than the minimum wage worker is earning or can hope to earn any time soon).

I also don't think this is the place to nitpick over terminology since the discussion is about whether being lower class and dirt poor can and does affect your mental illness, as opposed to upper class.

Yes-poor spending skills affect stuff, but that's not a measure of social class, that's a case of ignoring practicalities or a symptom of a mental illness of it's own.

 

[J'qel]

@Nevermore: actually that's a perfect example of how social class *did* hurt him. See the "silver spoon" comment. Because of his social class people treated him worse-because of the perception that he had everything, people treating him worse than someone who didn't have as much.

 

[J'qel]

Edit to add: and he wasn't actually upper class at that point, so he was getting hit coming and going. Being perceived as upper class while actually being lower class and unable to afford and get the stability and help he needed.

 

[Nevermore]

So what we're really talking about here IS money. That's different from "social class".
Yes, he had no money.
And yes, he did it really really hard.
Harder because of this perception of social class that the op was writing about.
my point was that PTSD - all mental Illness really IS one of the great equalisers. People suffer. And I think as a Counsellor one should be aware of that!

 

[EmmaOwl]

Yes, so true @Allie D. I had a very dear friend who came from a wealthy family, u...

Yes! I was having a discussion about this very topic earlier today. It is what is EXPECTED of a person... Social acceptance and pressure may have amplified his troubles but it did not create them.

The point about money, I think some people are missing, is that your friend *could* have had money for treatment, but he wasn't in a state to accept help. The money for those needs would've been there if he was willing and able to take advantage of them. The harsh judgment did not cause his illness, it just didn't help. @Nevermore, I'm sorry. That is a tragic story.

 

[J'qel]

So what we're really talking about here IS money. That's different from "social class".
Yes, he had...

Keep in mind, an individual who "has class" or is "high class" is not the same thing as "upper class". We've had examples of high class lower class people already. You provided one.

I do concede that most of the time, yes we are talking money.

Some times, many (far too many) we're also talking skin colours, gender, religion and other-those also influence one's social class. I just haven't been able to find a more delicate way to put it.

Minority members in a majority society will always be behind, so long as certain mindsets exist. That, too, is part of social class, as much as I wish it weren't.

 

[Nevermore]

My friend had class! He treated everyone with friendliness and equality. He just didn't have any money in the end.
I myself only like or dont like people and it's only according to the kind of human being they are...
It's obvious there are all kinds of judgments and prejudices and biases out there in the minds of people, you can't fight that! But you don't have to be one of them.
My friend was just a really smart, warm, funny, talented but very wounded man. That's what he was.