• We are a multilingual website again. Read the notice about this.
  • Understand AI use at MyPTSD: all AI use is explained in our AI help page. AI use is by choice here. It exists if you want it, but does nothing unless you choose to use it.

Sexual Assault Still have some hangups it seems

Status
Not open for further replies.

richard_Grey_Area

Bronze Member
Ok, well you know how feminists love quoting the statistic that it is no coincidence that 75% of rape victims are women and 99.9% of rapists are men? I guess that statically speaking this makes me a very special person then...

Anyway, I've read up a bit on female to male sexual violence and I believe the following based on what I read: most commonly it is a mature woman sexually abusing a young boy. There seem to be two main forms of this abuse with a substantial grey area between. 1) a mother (or mother figure) presenting sex with her child a legitimate expression of love and 2) an angry woman who subjects a child to what amounts to torture of a sexual nature or torture and sex or torture from which she derives sexual pleasure. I've heard of some who have experienced both at the same time (their mothers hurting them and having sex with them, calling it "love") - anyway, perhaps someone with a background in psychology could clarify... but I got almost entierly the second one. I was physically and psychologically abused as a child by a woman not related to me in way which I now understand as sexual. Back then I didn't understand it period, I rationalised it as being no different from the physical and psychological abuse I was suffering at home from both my parents (I thought that the focus on genitals, nipples and anus were to make it more painful - probably it was).
Anyway, I'm fast forwarding through my early life so I can get to what I'm writing to you about today.

For a few years I forgot or blocked it out. Then I remembered, I was a little perturbed to see that realising something this <unsound> made me happy. As a child and teenager I was very angry, I developed serious behavioural problems and a learning disability. I was violent and depressed to the point where my behaviour caused me to be sent for (non optional) counselling at several points in my early life.
When I remembered what happened, I wanted to tell people and so I told some male friends with whom I was fairly close.
The reaction I got makes me angry and disgusted to this day. I was making it up, it was some kind of sick sexual fantasy, women don't behave like that, men do, I must accept that I am by nature a sexual predator and move on.
I refused.
Then came something which changed my life. I attended a talk given by a female rape survivor. She spoke openly and honestly about her experiences, her feelings and about the sort of society in which this kind of thing takes place fairly often.
So much of what she said resonated with me so closely.
I went and spoke to her after the talk, agreeing with her about many things she said.
I thanked her, then I told her that I had suffered sexual abuse as well when I was a child.
She put her hand on my shoulder, looked into my eyes with what seemed to be undiluted compassion and said "I'm so sorry" - she invited me to speak to her about my experience.
I got as far as saying that my abuser had been a woman.
and she recoiled from me as though I had transformed into a ball of venomous centipedes.
Was fighting to keep from screaming at me, she told me I was lying, that women never do things like that because they can't. That all sexual abuse is done by men always and almost always against women. She refused to speak to me and stormed out of the venue.
Now, I must say that before I remembered what had happened to me, I was pretty misogynistic! I didn't know why. Remembering what happened to me actually caused me to stop hating women, but I didn't exactly like them either.
Being confronted with this reaction hurt and upset me deeply.
But somehow it made me think about things, in a way I almost think this was the beginning of the healing process I have begun.
I had to wonder at the type of society we live in. I wondered things like why it was that if a man walked around believing that all women everywhere wanted nothing other than to have sex with him and that they would gladly force him into a dark alley and hurt and rape him if given the chance, why we would lock that man away in a psychiatric hospital for the rest of his life, but our reaction to the many women who feel this way is "get your stuff sorted out and don't make it my problem, go to therapy or something (bitch)".

I decided that I wasn't going to hate all women because of what one had done to me once, that I was always going to try to see the perspective of female victims, even if that perspective came across as angry and hateful (which described me perfectly for a while anyway).
Well, I realised that I can't be everywhere at once and stop all rape, sexual abuse and gender violence, but I decided I could be the kind of man who doesn't encourage it and who where possible takes a stand against it.
Most importantly, I decided I would open my heart again, I would love people again and I would love women, even thought they frightened me.
It has been a long and difficult road so far, I think I've made progress in some areas.
But I'm far from healed.
Sometimes I feel it is like my heart stopped developing when I was hurt as a child, that I am now living with a heart which hasn't grown up yet.
Although physically I seem to be ok, all systems check, I think that I am for the most part what people call "asexual".
I was in a relationship with a ...rather interesting woman it was intense and mercifully brief. At some point we were having sex between 5 and 8 times a day.
I felt no form of physical pleasure.
I felt a little pleasure in giving pleasure, but to me it was like I was washing her dishes for her, I didn't enjoy it at all, but I enjoyed that she liked me doing it.
Other relationships between then and last night have not involved sex, but I don't regret one, I got to know some amazing people on an intimate level and I learnt a lot about myself and others.
But what I need to speak to you about is last night.

Sorry, double-posting
I just saw the great wall of text I was building and kind of thought it better to start last night and related things separately from the background to the whole story.
I wasn't sure how to write about this because I didn't want to seem like I was boasting about an encounter or trying to write porn here, but I wanted to give the full experience. I'm going to give the details of what happened and how I felt in painful detail here as I'm sure many would relate details of their abuse. While it should be noted that my intention is not to create erotic literature, it must please be noted that from now on there will be sexually explicit content. I don't know what you've been through and I don't know how you will take it, but if you don't want to read about a sexual experience, stop reading now.

It started when I met a work colleague, at first we really didn't get on, but later we became close friends.
She soon (needlessly, I thought) subjected me to what would best be described as "aggressive belligerent friendzoning" and there were many things about our somewhat uneven friendship which did not sit well with me. But I let her know that I would be there for her and I would do whatever made her happy and comfortable. And then she went through a hard time and she called me and I helped her through it, and then she went through another hard time and I was there for her again. After a while it was as if she was deliberately over-reacting to things which happened in order to get my attention. She stared demanding "boyfriend privileges" from me and I asked for (non-sexual) physical intimacy in return. It was her decision that I was no longer "friendzoned" and I responded to this the way I responded to being told I was. I said that as far as I was concerned, our friendship was something which couldn't and didn't need to be defined, that it was unique and special and that I would be deeply moved and flattered if she felt the same way.
So yes, we became kind of involved.
We had to travel insane distances to be together, we spend ages cuddling and talking crap, it felt good to hold her hand and to wake up seeing her there next to me. We didn't have penetrative sex but we had a hell of a lot of pg13 moments and a lot of fun, a deep bond developed between us. But her contract expired and she had to leave the country. We decided that our friendship was the most important thing and it was that we would invest in. We decided that at some point we would meet up again, and if at that point anything other than our close friendship existed... well we would see when the time comes.
And she left, and I was kind of devastated, and now I miss her in a more appreciative way, like the memory of something good I no longer have, rather than a desperate raw way, but that was largely due to her interrupting my typing of this just now to phone me from the other side of the world. But there have been times when she has messaged me and made an effort to contact me every day and I was disgusted with myself because it just didn't feel like it was enough. The physical and romantic side of things grew out of our friendship, it was never the basis for it, but there have been times I wanted more than a message or even a phonecall. I'm not proud of it, but these things happen.

Sorry if I seem to be boring you with more background, you want to get to the sex scene, right?
It's coming, but first I wanted you to know that I am semi involved in a hard to define but very loving relationship which has done good things for me.

But she is not my only friend,
I've always had more female friends than male ones, I don't know why.
And I have this other friend who is overweight and a lot of fun, she works with computers and is making a web page for me. Now she does overcharge me, but I know this and I'm happy to pay extra because she does a great job and I like her even if she is a bit dodgy.
I just don't trust her, sorry to say. My close friend on the other side of the world met her and she said she likes her but she says she just can't trust her. I'm not going to attack her character here, but there are things she has said and done which make me question her motivations.
One thing I didn't question though was that the interest she showed in me from the beginning was genuine. I may have questioned why she was interested (I'm not exactly an attractive man) and I may have suspected that if I left her alone in my apartment I might come back to find stuff gone and her not around, but I never suspected she was faking her interest in me.

Anyway, last night I was really sick, like falling down sick and exhausted. I'd spend the day trying hard to see doctor (a lot more difficult if you're living in a country in which you weren't born) and failing to do so. I had some almost food, stopped trying to clean my filthy apartment and got into bed. I was asleep by around 7. I woke up sometime after 3 in the morning, it was my friend calling (the cute chubby one, not the one who I'd like to call more than a friend, but let's go with friend...) she told me she was in serious trouble and could I come downstairs and open the door for her please? Now in that sate, somewhere around 4 in the morning, feeling kinda sick, I wasn't thinking straight, just feeling like - my God, my friend's in trouble! - and I went down to help her. Iet her in and she looked exhausted and like she had been crying. I told her she could sleep in my bed, I have a guest mattress but it is large and my place is tiny and most of the floor was occupied by everything having been moved out because I'm cleaning. So I told her she could sleep in my bed and she got in. Then I realised I didn't have anywhere to sleep since she took up most of the bed, I was exhausted. She looked at me standing there like a zombie and said "you can sleep with me" - I thought she was being ironic and playful.
Anyway, I climbed into bed and cuddled up to her, it felt good to put my arms around someone and feel the warmth again. I didn't understand why she was looking at me like that and kept giggling, but I fell asleep.
I woke up because I she was 1/2 on top of me, kissing me hard.
I told her I didn't want to and she continued. I have never liked kissing, it feels to intimate and unpleasant; the only kiss I enjoyed in my life I think was the one I had with my close friend who went 1/2 way round the world when I said goodbye to her, I actually felt a strange pleasure with that one. But I kissed my friend back a bit, even though I didn't enjoy it and kissing her felt like eating raw meat.
I told her I was in love with the other woman and she said she didn't care.
She put my hand on her breast, and I won't lie, I've always enjoyed breasts, they are more comforting than sexual to me, but they are fun.
Anyway, she told me to touch her and she climbed onto me and started dry humping my stomach. At this point I wasn't having so much with her breasts because I was quite uncomfortable but I continued to play with them and to kiss her because I was hoping she would finish quickly and calm down, going to sleep and giving me a chance to sleep myself!
She kept touching my genitals and asking what was wrong, why wasn't I hard, couldn't I get an erection?
I discouraged this as well as the numerous attempts she made to rip my pants off. She wanted sex and I wasn't giving it to her.
She grew very angry and started hitting me softly, she wasn't hurting me, but I knew she wanted to.
After a while I decided that it was better she was satisfied and calmed down and slept, so I gave her my hand to masturbate with. At first I barely did anything and she moved against me, but she was doing this tongue invasion and lip attack kissing thing which made it hard for me to breath while sick and I moved my hands to help her finish so she would calm down and sleep. She did.
At no point was I even slightly aroused.
We slept together without cuddling which was slightly disappointing to me.
I told her I didn't want this, I didn't cooperate much, but I didn't resist much either.

I felt confused and a little worried, also kind of disgusted, but I didn't feel angry, hurt, violated or hateful of her or myself.
I think I could best describe my feeling as: imagine you are a vegetarian and you go into a restaurant and order cheesy vegetarian pizza. Instead of complaining, for some reason you eat the whole thing and don't enjoy it.

The thing is that what I experienced there would best be described if you reversed the genders of those involved so I was the girl and she was the boy. Then it would be anyone's guess how it was received, but it could easily be described as a form of sexual assault.
And I felt nothing except what I have described and wondering what the hell just happened and seriously, I told my close friend overseas that I would tell her everything, but how the hell was I going to tell her about this? and should I just not mention it? (I did in the phonecall with her while typing this, she was upset and outraged but she wasn't angry with me - as far as she showed). I was perturbed as to what this meant to my friend who came over and used me as an unwilling sex toy, I was even more confused when she was normal this morning and last night didn't come up in the discussion. She didn't want to cuddle this morning either, which made me kind of sad.
The thing is that ok, there is a big difference between a horny and slightly tipsy friend who won't take no for an answer and what I went through as a child which was someone trying to hurt me for no understandable reason.
But I was in a situation with a sexually aggressive woman and although I didn't enjoy it, it wasn't so upsetting to me that I hated myself and wanted to kill someone.
So I don't know if I should take that as a sign that I'm moving beyond letting something someone did to me rule my life, or if it means I just don't give a <fudge> anymore, which could not be a good sign.
Also, if I am getting any better, why do I still have little interest in having sex and I presume I would still not feel anything?
I was wondering if anyone has been in a similar or comparable situation, a friend coming over and kind of forcing themselves on you and you not really feeling it but not exactly resisting either - was it traumatic? I mean am I supposed to be traumatised?
Also is there something I do which encourages women to behave in a sexually aggressive manner towards me? This is not the first time something like this has happened only before the women weren't happy to accept my non-resistance and didn't get their happy ending and so they ended up like seriously and deeply hating me forever because I denied them sex.

I guess what I'm asking is WHAT THE HELL? and for anyone to share any insights, including but hopefully not limited to me being a giant bag of dicks and that this forum was created for people with real problems, not for amateur porn writers to practice on.
I'm interested in moving forwards, seriously, I don't want what a rather sick person did to me over 20 years ago to define me as a person and the kinds of relationships I have, so all insights welcome.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From one man to another ... I understand. No one believes that we could have been the abused, not the abusers. There is usually nowhere a man can turn for help. Few people care about us male survivors as actual, hurting individuals. We are called faggots, losers, and man-children, and told to "man up." Many of us will end up as suicides.

I believe you. I'm glad you're here.
 
The statistic are incorrect, but the cultural context in which they arose is still something which urgently needs addressing.
As I said, as a man who has experienced sexual violence and multiple instances of aggressive sexual behaviour from women, I could have take the perspective many traumatised women take regarding men. but I choose to see this, not as "female behaviour", but as the actions of some very sick individuals. | would be overjoyed if more women started to see rape, sexual violence and aggressive sexual behaviour, not as "male behaviour" but as the actions of some sick individuals in a sick society. Although I must say I empathise with anyone who can not see things this way and try as they might, will always see any man as a potential rapist.

The big thing about our society I feel needs to change is the perception of male and female sexuality.
Female sexuality is linked to morality most often, a woman's desires are and indication of her character and virtue.
Male sexuality has become linked to physical health. The perception is that being nearly out of control with lust in 'the normal and healthy state' of a male. If you are not at the point of raping someone then you are sick and weak. Men compete over their sexuality as they compete over who can get the biggest biceps or who has the biggest naughty parts. Having a girlfriend who you love, spend many hours kissing and cuddling with and have sex with once a week means you're "sick" or "weak" because you should be having sex with her 3 times a day and having sex with 2-3 other women on the side. What you want is seen in terms of desire, and desire is seen in terms of physical health.

The effects of male sexuality being seen in these terms on women is something I'm afraid nearly every woman can tell you about!
The effects of male sexuality being seen in these terms on men is something I have been observing.
Men frequently exaggerate their sexual desires and appetites as well as the frequency and nature of sexual encounters they report.
There are actually very few men who have the combination of very high testosterone levels, low impulse control and or psychological problems and or lack of intelligence which would put them in the category our society seems to think is a "normal healthy man".
Men who do not conform to this testosterone-pissing high water mark are regarded as "weak" and "sick". Despite all the developments in our society over the last few decades, despite the "coming out" and the acceptance, it remains true to this day that many homosexual men are treated as though they have some kind of disease for not lusting after women, because being at the point of desperation and ready to jump into bed with any woman at any time regardless of the consequences is "normal and healthy".

Here is what I see as "normal and healthy" in a man:
- having a need for physical intimacy such as touch, hugging, massage and even sexual contact.
- having a need for emotional gratification such as feeling loved and wanted.
- having a need for company.
- having a need for some form of release from the build up of semen which varies depending on his body.

Of the 4 needs I have listed, 3 are not physical and only the last one is. Many men can be perfectly happy in a situation where the 3 non-physical needs are satisfied but the physical one is not (it just gets uncomfortable and a little painful after a wile) - also the physical need is easily satisfied through masturbation: the other needs are not.

Society teaches boys growing up that men have one need, for SEX, that is purely physical and stronger than anything else on earth, if this is not the case "there's something wrong with you!"

If I had grown up in a different society, I don't know, I might well have still experience the same (roughly) six months of painful and humiliating sexual abuse as a child, I might well have been hurt and have problems relating to others to this day. But I'm pretty sure that the reactions I got from male "friends" at the time would have been hellava different, I'm pretty sure much of what I call the "secondary" damage would not have effected me so badly.
 
Those statistics are incorrect!
I actually cannot even believe that someone could read that entire post and respond with only this. Really?

I hear you, Richard. I was extremely moved by your story, and your writing is very prosaic to boot. I'm a female who has been victimized by childhood sexual abuse as well as later rape and some other shit, and I am forever baffled when I hear stories here of male victims who have been shouted down by women--especially those who have also been victims. I just don't understand it. I've met men who were victimized both by men and women, and I see no difference between them. Societally, I do see I difference between female and male victims, and some of that difference is reasonable (women typically have more to fear from a future attack than men) and some is ridiculous (like the sentiment that ONLY women can be victimized--FFS).

Anyway, I think your intentions in this arena are extremely admirable, and I personally apologize for the insensitivity you've come across. I'm thrilled that it has not ruined your opinion of women.

I feel like your "friend" did coerce you. I don't think one need always feel traumatized by assault, though. I've been sexually assaulted numerous times without feeling traumatized. It doesn't help my symptoms or my fears/paranoia/anxiety/mistrust, but it doesn't spin me out.
 
wow, thanks, somebody read my post.
I'm joking, I'm sure the others did, I just didn't write in a way which invites the usual type of reply (I wasn't looking for sympathy or being angry etc...)
You don't need to personally apologise for anything, you can help the situation by letting men know that they don't have to keep up the charade of "manliness", but sadly I should add that it is best to be careful how you do this as some will see it as an invitation to get closer.

I posted this to discuss how my friend kind of used me and how and why it didn't effect me. I mean I've been through some stuff... but this was like a dog humping my leg, kind of embarrassing, but whatever. I'm going to see her again tonight because she has left something at my place (probably not intentionally, people always forget things at my place) and I will be curious to see how she interacts with me. I suspect that she well be her normal self as it seems that the encounter was 100% about her getting immediate physical gratification and that she doesn't see me as "hers" now, but at least she doesn't seem to feel anger and resentment towards me for not being very cooperative.

I have often wondered, if having experienced sexual violence and abuse make you more open to it in future. I'm working on how to formulate that question properly, but I have noticed that my experiences differ greatly from those of most men and I wonder if its something about me or if it is something like I noticed the monster in the corner of my room now he can get me?
Anyway, thank you for reading my too much writing (all of you) and for your thoughtful replies.
I'm holding out hope for a working, mutually beneficial relationship with someone in future.
 
I'd read it, but childhood sexual abuse other than verbal wasn't my issue (except as a teen, one adult male and one time). I did show support though for your topic by clicking the "like" button the other day when you initially posted. I think you have a great topic and I hope others will come forward to have this discussion.
 
you can help the situation by letting men know that they don't have to keep up the charade of "manliness", but sadly I should add that it is best to be careful how you do this as some will see it as an invitation to get closer.
I'm actually all about this issue. Check out this TED Talk: Violence against women -- it's a men's issue

Also this documentary is on Netflix: The Mask You Live In - Trailer

I think the way we frame masculinity is deplorable. Not that the way we define femininity isn't extremely problematic, too.

Perhaps you were not really affected by this instance because the power relationship felt non-threatening? You liken it to a dog humping your leg; I'm assuming you're thinking of a little terrier you could shake off, even kick, not an English mastiff that's going to bite half of your arm off if you defend yourself. In the times where I was assaulted/harrassed/violated that weren't felt as retraumatizing, I wasn't afraid for my life. I was just extremely grossed out and wanted it to stop. There is an element of fear there, for me, but I'm a pretty small woman, and I think that's typical for women being acted on by men (that women feel less powerful and therefore a higher level of fear than if the roles were flipped).
 
I actually cannot even believe that someone could read that entire post and respond with only this....

Please stop criticizing how I reply to a thread!

I am on an iPhone and sometimes it's hard for me to type a lot.

Sometimes I just don't have it in me to say a lot.

I know you cannot ignore me but please refrain from criticizing my reply style. It's been happening a LOT lately from various people and I'm almost to the point of not giving any support at all as it seems like anything less than a novel is not good enough of a reply.

OP I was trying to lend support and I apologize if you feel that my reply was inferior. Until I can afford a laptop, I will refrain from trying to support people and will stick to my own threads.
 
would be overjoyed if more women started to see rape, sexual violence and aggressive sexual behaviour, not as "male behaviour" but as the actions of some sick individuals in a sick society.

I agree. One of my main sexual perps was my mother. Female on female abuse. I don't see preditors as male only. Not by a long shot. Actually, females terrify me so much that I could never have a female therapist and I about flip out at my GP, where my male GP went to the new VA hospital and only females took his place so I need to change my entire medical Dr group due to this.

I wish I could change society but unfortantly I can't. But I feel ya!
 
Richard,
To start with you write with a degree of eloquence that is delightful to read despite the difficulty of the subject matter. You may have more female than male friends but I'd sit down and drink a beer with you any day. I imagine you're like me and write better than you converse but I'm just guessing yet I would still enjoy a conversation. On to some of you're more captivating thoughts:

I had to wonder at the type of society we live in. I wondered things like why it was that if a man walked around believing that all women everywhere wanted nothing other than to have sex with him and that they would gladly force him into a dark alley and hurt and rape him if given the chance, why we would lock that man away in a psychiatric hospital for the rest of his life, but our reaction to the many women who feel this way is "get your stuff sorted out and don't make it my problem, go to therapy or something (bitch)".

Again really well said. I had never thought about it from both sides of the coin. Only the female side which I find to be maddening. I was raised in the south and my first sexual experience was at 17 years old with a 34 year old woman. It was completely consensual on my end but a lot of that had to do with the fact that the society I was raised in was so anti homosexual that the fear of me being gay (with my misperceived cure being if I have sex with a woman I have to be straight) had a lot to do with how consensual I was. I had no idea what type of society/culture meant until I left my own and went half way around the world. It wasn't until that that I understood the definition of culture/different societies. Now I see it as differing societies/cultures are nothing more than viewing the world as someone who thinks they are looking through clear glass but in reality we see things as culture through stained glass. That said your thoughts/ideas on the subject come across on the profound side now that I see it from the other side of the coin.

Society teaches boys growing up that men have one need, for SEX, that is purely physical and stronger than anything else on earth, if this is not the case "there's something wrong with you!"

Society also teaches women that as well. Sex can be with anyone. I need intimacy, nonsexual contact and sex with 1 person. Luckily she happens to be my wife but unfortunately she was taught or began to feel it was just sex. Thankfully that misconception has been corrected or at least it has in our case.

I have often wondered, if having experienced sexual violence and abuse make you more open to it in future.

I think you're on to something here. I know Ted Bundy picked his victims by the way they walked. That told him the degree of resistance he would have. I agree there are just sick people out there regardless of gender compounded by the stained glass they see the world through which in our society is not good.



There is an element of fear there, for me, but I'm a pretty small woman, and I think that's typical for women being acted on by men (that women feel less powerful and therefore a higher level of fear than if the roles were flipped).

This is what really bothers me about male on female or larger male on male and now that you have shown me adult female on child male rape. I know I've veered off of Richard's post but I see exactly what you're saying. It makes me want to puke. 6 out of 1000 rapist do jail time and that's a male on female stat. Male on male has to be even less likely to be reported much less female on male. This is where my anger issues pop up. I know I can't change society, I know my wife's rapist is larger than me and I know if I play as fair with him as he did my wife it doesn't matter but I also know that is not what my wife wants/needs. I have to just live with it which I am finding difficult even 2 years post therapy to the point of I see little progress. The subject needs to be covered and back to Richard keep writing. You do it very well. Very few people can write as concisely as you in the volume you write. Keep doing it. The stained glass I see the world through is a different color than I thought after reading your posts. Thanks for that.
hooper
 
Hmmm.
A lot of interesting observations here.

First:
Dead Link Removed, I was not disappointed or upset by the way you replied, I enjoy longer replies, but I was not unhappy with yours.

Simply Simon, your story about the small dog and the mastiff is also interesting. My friend has a substantial weight advantage over me which he did not hesitate to employ in keeping me down. Despite my physical appearance, I can be quite strong and due to unfortunate circumstances I have had some experience staying alive in fights. At the time I just didn't see the point in using so much energy to get out of the situation where I was not in any real physical danger- once I made it clear we would not have penetrative sex (especially not unprotected!) she seemed to accept that and find other ways to satisfy herself on me - I found it uncomfortable and inconvenient at the time.
There was physical coercion and a small threat of physical violence, but it was not evident that my life was in any real danger. Moreover, while I will respect a woman who has trained in combat or martial arts and for some reason wants to spar with (or practice on) me, I personally find violence against women absolutely disgusting. I don't mean that in a sexist way, like women are frail princesses who need saving, but I've witnessed and been indirectly effected by gender violence and so I really don't appreciate men who beat up women and would need a very good reason to use physical violence against a woman.

Also, I know it changes nothing, but I'm really sorry about what you went through. I am glad that you chose to share with others and not to become hateful and prejudiced because of your experiences.

Link Removed. Again, I'm sorry you went through this for what it's worth. I was fortunate enough not to be sexually abused by either of my parents, but I was quite badly physically and emotionally abused by both. Somehow, there is something about our mothers which gives them the ability to hurt us more deeply then almost anyone. It is fortunate then that there are actually so many good or ok mothers out there.

But about the not being able to change society, why the hell not?

I'm sorry, it's going to get a bit philosophical here, but I really want to share this.

I disagree with you on a profound level.

It is my opinion that, whether we like it or not, we are all changing society all the time, if fact we are creating it. Society is not a physical force, there are individuals who are physical, but society itself is an abstract concept. No one can see society, scientists can't measure it, it is what we agree it is. If everyone decides society is a purple elephant tomorrow... it's a purple elephant.

The thing about the changes we make is that unless we are fortunate or extremely gifted, they will be small. If you say I can't eradicate inequality and gender violence overnight, I can't shout "stop" at the top of my voice and end all sexual violence, so I won't change anything, that is like saying I can't make 1billion$ tomorrow so I'm going to sleep under a bridge and not make any money.

I feel that people who take a "victim" approach (It's bigger than me and it's ugly, I can't do anything against it, etc) are in fact changing society, but they are changing it for the worse. Because if you deny the power and agency you have, it does not go away, it is taken by people who love it when others say nothing and pretend they didn't see or hear or that it didn't happen to them.
You don't need to be a hero, you don't need to give up your life, only acknowledge that you are a real entity and society is something which is agreed upon. I'd advocate that you take responsibility for the change you are making, like it or not and push somewhere coming up for nine billion people in the direction you want to go - they'll push you regardless of whether you try to give them direction or whether you become completely passive and let them.

If you are a woman who has a child, the lessons you teach him about women and about being a human being will define his character and the way he interacts with women more than society can - because just as a mother has is in a position to hurt in a way which stays with people for the rest of their lives, so a mother is in the unique position of being able to provide an example which stays with someone, good or bad. And no, you definitely don't have to have children and raise them well to change society, there are enough people in the world already and many of them, child or adult, are looking for a mother.
If you are a man, you don't have to go out with a baseball bat looking for rapists to beat to death (as pleasant as I must confess I find that notion at times), you can show women that you won't just blindly accept the privilege society has bestowed upon you, that you will not preserve this "real man" farce an neither will you perpetuate the "brotherhood" lie, that men stick together. You can show that you're big enough to stand up to the way things are. You can provide a better example to boys growing up and to other men. Man or woman, you can decide that you aren't going to let this lousy alibi we call society rule you and decide what you can and can't do or say. You can recognise that power does not lie in abstract entities but in people, individuals, you can use yours or you can give it away.

You may not see the change, but you are changing society, is a small way, slowly, but when you look at the number of people on earth, even if together we can only manage to make a 1% change, that is a lot of people who's lives will be improved.

I'm changing society now with these words - how much and whether for better or worse, I'll leave to you to decide.

When you made a change in yourself and joined this community and shared what you had to say, your experiences and insights, you made a change in society. And this is only the beginning of the change you will make.

Link Removed, I wasn't attacking you or trying to put you on the spot, but I hope you don't forget that you are more real than society. It sounds naive and detached from reality, but maybe if we decided it didn't, we'd be able to make the changes we want a lot faster. that's all.

Hooper, you seem interesting enough that I would consider meeting with you, maybe one day we will.

I've written a lot on society and don't want to crush anyone under a mountain of letters. But I have won an award for public speaking and I could have conversations if I wanted to ;) I think that rather than replying to everything you have said, I'll converse with you freely elsewhere.

Just saying, to everyone I didn't "pick on" here, it wasn't that you didn't have anything worth commenting on, it was because I write a lot of rubbish and didn't want to drown people. For anyone who read me say "I'm sorry you had to go through that" or similar and thought oh god, what a patronising bastard, No, I don't know what you've been through, no, what I have been through does not entitle me to speak as if I understand you etc... but I am accepting responsibility, not expressing pity. I am trying to change things in a small way, and I'm not very effective right now, and I am misguided and I don't know enough, nor do I have the right skills, but yes. I can express solidarity, I hope, I'm sorry anyone had to go through some of the horrific ordeals I read about here, I can let people know that I accept them and see them as people, not just a collection of problems or symptoms of what is wrong with society. So yes, I am sorry you all had to go through that.

Sorry, I'm typing too much now, I'm a bit emotional, kind of very tired and quite sick, I'll shut up now, thank you all for your insights and everything you have shared.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Donation drives

2026 Donation Goal

Goal
$1,800.00
Earned
$910.00
This donation drive ends in
0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds
  50.6%

Trending content

Featured content

Back
Top Bottom