Stressful family situation i can’t change - how do i manage my distress?

[barefoot]

How do you deal with it when there’s a situation that really stresses you out and you can’t change it?

I’m sure acceptance must be at least part of that answer. But simply accepting that this is the situation doesn’t make me feel any less upset about it.

Basically:

My sister split up with her husband about 8 years ago.

She and her daughter - who was about 3 at the time - moved in with our parents temporarily.

Eight years on and the four of them are still living together.

It’s awful in so many ways. The atmosphere is terrible. The tension in the house is tangible.
My parents tell me that they want my sister and niece to go.
My sister isn’t going anywhere - largely because she can’t afford to move out because she has lots of debt and is on low income .

They are all so fed up with each other (they all blame each other for how stressful things are) and yet they all kind of collude to ensure that nothing changes. They all slag each other off to me but they won’t have an open conversation with each other (which might actually move the situation on) They all love to claim the victim role. And I feel for all of them because this isn’t a good situation for any of them. But, again, no one does anything to even attempt to create any change. Etc etc.

I am so worried about the impact on my niece of growing up in that environment with those unhealthy dynamics. I am upset and worried about so many things to do with her but the main thing that is really bothering me at the moment is that she is starting secondary school in September and will be 12 soon after that...and she still shares a bedroom with my sister.

My sister and my parents...none of them seem remotely bothered by this. They don’t see that it’s an issue at all.

My parents could actually turn an area of the house into another bedroom but my dad won’t because he says if they do that there will be nothing to stop my sister staying. But she’s not going anywhere anyway because she can’t afford to (and possibly doesn’t want to either)

I think I’m right in saying that there’s nothing legally stopping them from sharing a room. So, it’s not like she’s breaking the law! But it just feels so wrong to me. My family isn’t good with privacy and boundaries etc anyway and I just can’t see how my niece will learn about these and other healthy relationship type things.

I’ve told my parents and my sister how concerned I am about it...how she needs some privacy and her own space as she’s growing up, how she would benefit from not being so enmeshed with my sister, how my sister too needs privacy, how my niece doesn’t have anywhere to be alone and do teenage stuff (no where to just play her music or whatever). And it’s the sort of thing that other kids will potentially give her a hard time about. And they all just shrug and are dismissive. So, nothing is changing.

I am really distressed about it. But I feel (or rather, I think, I am) powerless to do anything to change it.

I try to avoid going there because I find it so stressful (as does my partner), I find it very destabilising when I go there - it takes me a few days to recalibrate afterwards.

I don’t know what to do.
I don’t think there’s anything I can actually do.
I don’t know how to manage how upsetting I find this whole situation.

I feel like my niece is growing up in such an unhealthy environment and I am concerned about what that will mean for who she becomes. But I just feel like I can’t do a damn thing to stop it unfolding that way.

 

[Slushie]

Could social services step in and somehow talk sense into them? I wholeheartedly agree that your niece needs her own bedroom.

 

[Hopeforlife]

@barefoot i can relate to all of this. You are right there is not much you can do.

My family sort of sounds similar. My parents live in their own owned home with my baby sister - she's 21 now. My brother split from his wife of 10 years in another country and returned back to my parents house on the knowledge that he will sort himself out and eventually find a new job and place of his own. 4 years later and he has not even any intention of having a job. My mother suffers from depression and so does he (mainly because of the break up) My mother has suffered depression since she was diagnosed with cancer a few years back but is now in remission. They wynd each other up and bitch about each other to my other family members and me. It's got to the stage that the atmosphere is tense and you never know when someone will snap. We have tried to initiate talks etc but no one want to change the situation.

Sometimes you just got to let it be. My husband and I have ended up being isolated as we spoke up. Now we don't get involved and rarely visit and vice versa. Sometimes people can not be helped unless they really want change.

Maybe you could spend some time with your niece and if you have a spare room maybe offer her to stay once or twice a month if she needs her own time away. Might be good bonding time for you both and your niece will know that she can come to you for support. Maybe idea to speak with her mother first so that it doesn't cause other problems between them.

Huge hugs, I can sympathize with you. It's so frustrating but maybe they just need to figure it out on their own or with family therapist.

 

[EveHarrington]

I think it’s your job to be the awesome aunt. (I’ve got this title claimed in my family, lol. ...and my nephew is only 8 months old.) Give your niece someone she can turn to, someone she can rely on, and a place to go to escape. This is likely the extent of what you can do for her.

 

[Suzetig]

There’s no legal reason that your sister and her daughter can’t share a room, developmentally it’s not great but I doubt social services would become involved if that was the only issue. Your neice will get to the point of demanding her own space in the not too distant future because she’ll start to feel her own need for privacy.

In this situation I’d keep out tbh, anything you do or say will be the wrong thing and you’ll provide a handy target for everyone’s anger when they want to avoid dealing with the actual issues. I would start to set boundaries around what you’re prepared to listen to - if any of them start complaining about the other either change the subject, suggest they speak to the person concerned etc but do t keep listening to the same complaint over and over.

I’d second the awesome aunt suggestion - don’t make it too obvious but have your neice spend some time with you, if you have room put a space aside for her to use (eg s spare room) so she can see what it’s like to have her own space.

Don’t dismiss the idea that although they all complain about the situation on some level it suits them or they would have changed it by now. 8 years is a very long time to have someone live with you if it really isn’t ok - they may just have got into the habit of moaning about it or may think it’s unacceptable to want to live together or something. If you don’t like the atmosphere, don’t keep going around, try to see them all separately out of the house (coffee with your sister/shopping with your mum etc).

Sounds like a hard situation to watch unfold, so lots of looking after yourself needed too.

 

[barefoot]

I don't think it's an issue for social services @Slushie
Although I think most people would agree that an almost-teenager sharing a room with a parent is far from ideal in terms of the child's development, it isn't against the law and it's not that they are living in extreme poverty or that there's anything else going on in terms of neglect/abuse etc.

@Hopeforlife - I'm sorry to hear you can relate to this - our family situations and dynamics do sound very similar. It is very upsetting. Hard for you that you and your husband ended up being isolated because you spoke up - though at least that means you now have minimal contact and therefore don't get impacted so much by them.

maybe they just need to figure it out on their own or with family therapist

Yeah, I think they could potentially benefit from having an outside person facilitate some open conversations that they just don't have left to their own devices ie so that they have some open discussions with each other and try to find a more positive way forward (whether that's about how they improve how they live together or how they can take some steps towards my sister moving out) But I suggested family therapy or some kind of mediation to my parents and they both looked at me as if I was mad, so that was obviously a no and I won't mention it again. Even if I could get them in a room together with a therapist (which I can't) I just don't think they would be at all open to the process.

Maybe you could spend some time with your niece and if you have a spare room maybe offer her to stay once or twice a month if she needs her own time away. Might be good bonding time for you both and your niece will know that she can come to you for support.

I think it’s your job to be the awesome aunt. (I’ve got this title claimed in my family, lol. ...and my nephew is only 8 months old.) Give your niece someone she can turn to, someone she can rely on, and a place to go to escape.

I’d second the awesome aunt suggestion - don’t make it too obvious but have your neice spend some time with you, if you have room put a space aside for her to use (eg s spare room) so she can see what it’s like to have her own space.

I live about 2 hours drive away from them, which I know isn't a million miles away but, at the same time, it's not easy enough to just pop in or have my niece pop round or just stay overnight every now and then. If we were to have my niece come to stay, it would really mean that my sister would come too - mainly because she'd have to drive two hours to drop her at ours and then drive two hours home again or we would have to do the same if we went to pick her up. She's not really allowed to do very much on her own and she's very clingy with my sister so, if she was coming to stay, my sister would want to stay with us too. Or if we were going to pick my niece up, my parents would expect us to stay there for a fair while so that they got to spend some time with me too. It's tricky. Not really just an easy thing to spend more time with her.

There is also an annoying thing with the phone in the house. I don't think my niece is allowed to use the phone anyway and, on the rare occasions that she has been passed the phone to speak to us (eg if we've called to wish her happy birthday or something) it's quite hard work because she doesn't really know what to say or how to be on the phone. Main thing though is that the whole family sit there watching and listening. They are all really, really bad at privacy - whenever anyone is on the phone, the phone is on speaker phone and everyone's sitting listening in. So, when I call them, it'll be my mum who I tend to speak with. But I also know that whoever else is in the house at that time will be able to hear our entire conversation. It irritates the hell out of me.

There is another issue around me being "awesome aunt" and bonding with my niece, which I'm sort of hesitating to write because I feel quite ashamed of it...the truth is, I don't actually want to spend more time with her. I find it very difficult to be around her. So, while I feel really worried for her and can't bear to see the impact living there in that environment/dynamic is having and I worry so much for her future because of all the unhelpful/unhealthy stuff she is learning (re communication, relationships, boundaries, home environment, the fact that she is rarely allowed a voice etc), I also want to keep it (her) "over there" because I don't really want any closeness with her myself. It seems that the more I dig into my childhood stuff in therapy, the more difficult I find it to be around her.

My partner is great with her and my niece adores her. And my niece and I get on fine together but I get panicky if I'm left on my own with her and...well...I think I am actually triggered by her/being around her, if that's possible? I've talked about it a bit with my T. Maybe I need to work on that more...

I feel really, really awful writing that.

I would start to set boundaries around what you’re prepared to listen to - if any of them start complaining about the other either change the subject, suggest they speak to the person concerned etc but do t keep listening to the same complaint over and over.

Yes, you're right. I did consciously do this for a while but have let it slip a bit lately. I need to go back to suggesting that they have this (whatever they're saying in that moment) conversation with the person involved rather than with me.

Don’t dismiss the idea that although they all complain about the situation on some level it suits them or they would have changed it by now.

Yes, there is absolutely some truth in this. They are certainly all colluding with each other on some level to maintain the status quo. That said, my dad is really the only one out of the three of them with enough power to do anything to change it. Because he basically controls the whole house. He wants them to go but doesn't want to give them the money to do it (which I understand - it would be a lot of money, long term). So, because he isn't offering them financial help to go, they stay. And then he won't do things like create a room for my niece because that will encourage them to stay longer term. Even though they can't leave anyway without his help. It will cost him a lot of money to pay for a place for her to move to. It costs him in other terms (feeling stressed and unhappy) to have them stay. His priority at the moment seems to be saving his money. Which is his choice, of course...

I think my sister is the one most invested in maintaining the current situation because, as it is, my mum does pretty much everything (cooking etc) and my sister doesn't seem to care that she is so disempowered in the house and treated like a child herself because the upside is that she doesn't have a whole lot of responsibility for anything and never has to make a decision about anything. I think she is also lacking in confidence in terms of living on her own with her daughter. She is not at all independent and I think she's afraid of doing it alone. She basically went from living with my controlling parents (dad in particular) to marrying a controlling man. And then she got out of that relationship and is now back to living with controlling dad. She has no idea how to just adult on her own. And low self-esteem too.

If you don’t like the atmosphere, don’t keep going around, try to see them all separately out of the house (coffee with your sister/shopping with your mum etc)

I don't go there very often at all. Just a few times a year. It is easier to see them in pairs at our house, which we do occasionally (a couple of times a year probably) and that is easier as there is less tension. But then, my parents will want to talk about my sister and vice versa and it's just the same conversation we're been having for years...round and round they all go in circles...saying the same thing, crying about the same things, blaming each other for the same things...

I hear way you're all saying...that I just need to leave them all to it. If it wasn't for my niece, I would find that much easier to do. The distress I feel for how this is shaping how and who she will grow up to be is sky high right now. I come back from being around them all feeling like I'm right on the edge of a breakdown. I hate this. I feel totally out of whack and am not sure how to right myself.

 

[Suzetig]

Is part of it that you worry she’ll grow up with similar issues to your own or that her situation some way reminds you of growing up in that home? I ask because I totally get the whole no privacy thing - your description of what it’s like to have a phone conversation felt very close to my own experience.

I also really get you not wanting to spend more time with your niece, it sounds like doing that would draw you closer to something you don’t want to be near.

In situations like that I tend to think about what, if anything I want to do while recognising that there are other adults involved including your sister who is responsible for your nieces well being. If they won’t change things, you won’t be able to effect change anyway - I’d just stop them moaning to me about it.

 

[barefoot]

Is part of it that you worry she’ll grow up with similar issues to your own or that her situation some way reminds you of growing up in that home?

Yes, this is part of it. The more I dig around in therapy, the more I join the dots between what I observe in my family dynamics now and things in my upbringing which have proved challenging as an adult.

The mixed messages, the come here/go away confusion, the lack of privacy/boundaries, the not being heard/not really being allowed a voice, my dad’s stonewalling, the power my dad has and how everyone looks to him to make any kind of decision, the constant rapid toggling between victim and perpetrator...

My parents were not abusive and I genuinely believe that they have always done - and continue to do - their best. But in the past months I have really recognised the impact of how they were/are on me. And it is just so painful to watch it all play out again with my niece.

it sounds like doing that would draw you closer to something you don’t want to be near.

Yes. But I feel terrible and very guilty about feeling that way.

recognising that there are other adults involved including your sister who is responsible for your nieces well being. If they won’t change things, you won’t be able to effect change anyway

I agree that I cannot effect any change if they are not willing to make changes. I just want to shake my sister. I think I feel angry with her that she cannot see that the current situation is not healthy and positive for her daughter.

 

[LuckiLee]

This all sounds so stressful. I do have a question though. Why isn't your sister working? She could have saved a fortune in these 8 years. Also, is the father involved at all with raising your niece?

 

[barefoot]

@LuckiLee My sister works part time. She got a job that fitted in with my niece’s school times as my parents will do the odd bit of child care but were not willing to enter into a regular long term commitment. I don’t know whether my sister will look to increase her hours once my niece goes to secondary school. She doesn’t earn much at all and she gets some money in benefits. She pays my parents a monthly sum towards household expenses (but it’s still a lot less than she would have to pay on rent elsewhere). Even if she worked full time, she wouldn’t earn very much because of the sort of work she does. And the debt she left her marriage with is huge and her earnings now don’t make any dent in that at all. My dad and I both encouraged her to go bankrupt years ago (as did a guy at her local Citizens Advice Bureau) But she didn’t so she still has a huge debt and no prospect of climbing out of that hole.

The father isn’t involved. He and my niece speak on the phone regularly as that was agreed in a court order. And he sends her presents for her birthday and Christmas. He and my sister don’t speak. He doesn’t pay any child support. He also has a huge debt (unless he has gone bankrupt, which I suspect he might have), he doesn’t work and lives on benefits.

 

[Slushie]

It's a really bad situation and I feel for your niece in all of this, but maybe over the next few years she will figure out how messed up it is and move to her own place as soon as she is old enough. Still seems really unhealthy to me, I'm sure if she and her mother were in a different situation and were homeless the social services would provide them a two bedroom place, surely? And I do wonder what your nieces friends would make of her not having her own room, does she currently have friends?

 

[LuckiLee]

^^^years ago a friend became pregnant at 18. She lived with her parents but they weren't very happy about the situation. They wrote a letter stating she had till the end of the month to find housing. This put her at the top of the list for low income housing. Her rent was $3 a month. She took advantage of it at put herself through cosmetology school and was able to support herself and her child after 2 years.

If no one wants to change nothing will change. There's really nothing you can do. All the ideas we've given you've shot down. They're adults. They have to figure it out.

I just keep thinking... Not my monkeys. Not my circus.