Structural Dissociation

[grit]

Hey Lucycat,
My god...this is an old thread so I hope you are at much better place but I just recently read a book based on ANP and EP called the haunted self by these dutch doctors. Wow!

I am just starting to do this work myself. there are a lot of replies so I am very sure most of what I am going to say was said already but one of the ways i am integrating and healing is to make my ANP learn how to soothe the parts. I feel it is not right or doable to put back a part that comes out for breath. So my EPs few of them, I soothe them with my ANP. Since I realized in transference what is EP and what is ANP, I am no longer confused. However, now I am finding and maybe this is where you are too or passed already...that the closer I got to the my core the ANP the harder it is to believe this too is another EP.

For example, I have a very wise EP but can be too wise and does not want to learn more....what should I do with this. I feel it is good I can be wise for my own goodness...hahahah see..but then this part can come up and does not want to learn from others. I am being honest here.

The two parts I thought were significant recovery for me were anxiety and depression. I used to think I could safe my anxiety and depression for the weekend...why cannt others do the same? by Monday morning, my AnP is back for business not reason to think about the weekend all crrying or going crazy at home...what that was yesterday...I am happy go lucky lady here.

Until I freaked out in therapy and realized wow! who was that? then all of sudden, I came down and was reasonable but could not forgot the crazy person who came out in therapy, and COMPASSION, EMPATHY AND LOVE to myself...I CANNOT OVERESTIMATE THIS.
I literally started to talk to my inner girls, I am here. I am healthy. I can protect you now. No reason to be scared. I love you. seriously I do this alone and outloud. My girls one by one is hearing me but some are too close or too diffused to my ANP until then....


I honestly think I would not be able to do this kind of work in my 20s...I was one ball where now I feel I am octopus and can see the branches much easier to bring them closer to the centre.

Thank you for this thread and from 2013 wow!!!! just wow!

my therapist chuckled (and not in a good way) when I said I read this book.

He even said he did not see the difference in me and i had to tell him really...do you understand my english every session? do I sound the same? no. then one is ep and one is anp you dumb ass...but I did not say that...lol

thanks again

love for the self (so cliche) but that is what cures the inner child.

I want to add an example now: today I have a fighting and wisdom ep together. It is dangerous combination (feeling of hostility and self righteousness) and I have my group therapy later. So I am trying to soothe myself (I did not even go to work today). I am trying to keep the wisdom ep but hopefully have my compassion and empathy ep come up. It sounds too technical but because I am meditating and also unfortunately this is what trauma is. Trauma is so painful it makes one see the crack in the soul, in consciousness, and in self like a broken mirror!

I read somewhere how helpful it can be to sit and write out a conversation with yourself. Just as if you are two people talking. I tried it - a little - and found out how easily I could shift back and forth from the adult me talking to the child me inside. The adult was both listening to, as well as comforting the child. I even started crying when the "child me" heard just what she needed from the adult.

I could love her as a parent should and be there for her as a child friend. Even my handwriting changed as I became both people. (Hmmm, that sure sounds weird. Being two very different people.) But, it helped me. I have now realized how much the child needs, no, wants, from a grown-up. It is very sad that I have to be both....no child should have to go thru this alone.

In my culture we have a saying that says the insane is the one who speaks to himself. I do that. I converse with myself so I can see how many arguments I can have and see who has the right answer...all in me...but I make sure I am alone! ha! I am not that crazy.

 

[ms spock]

Trust doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Okay

Trust what you know and understand, remain skeptical about the rest.

That is a different way of doing it.

 

[Starfish]

Wow! When I read this, I was shocked!

That is exactly how I wrote in my journal. I have gone back and re-read some of the past entries from many years ago. That is exactly what I was doing. Talking to myself. How fascinating to realize that was what I was doing. Kind of like giving myself therapy. I had always thought that it was odd - till now. Thanks.

The thing I am learning about me is I never learned to talk to myself. No one talked to me, neglect. I have trouble coming up with language/words to think and talk to myself about. It is the emotional state I “went to” when I was ignored/neglected. I wish I could get myself to open up to myself. I feel like a zombie to myself, catatonic state. I can write here, to you all but if I try to get in touch with myself in any form, I am not there. Weird and uncomfortable and scary!

 

[knuckles]

I thought I'd post a link to Carolyn Spring's blog.
(sorry, wanted to add something about the contents/writer, but I can't sort out the words right now)
The blog was mentioned by another member in another post on this forum.

I have been struggling for a while; thinking I am just f*cked up and need to pull myself together and ignore these things. But something has changed and I am slowly loosing my grip.

Read this thread a while ago, when it was re-opened, and found much information and many thoughts that ressonated deep within me.

The blogposts on Carolyn Spring's website are somewhat hard for me to read. It's potent I guess you could say. I've been thinking that her words and insights might be of value to others here.

 

[katz]

I think you have both shown me how confusing this whole thing is. I understand the 'playing of roles'. Just as I have always told T that the work me and home me are very different, but he described this as perfectly normal behaviour.

The difference in structural dissociation is that it is 'structural'. Like, not a choice, a role or play-acting. I also get how hard it is to 'fit in' in social situations and struggle to understand the rules. Always so scared of looking stupid by saying/doing the wrong thing. In that respect work is so much easier as we have books and books of rules, regulations, guidelines and policies. But take those work people into the social situation - no thank you!!

I don't open up to friends either. I have few, and like you Rainbow, keep them at a distance. They don't understand me and I really don't want to let on just how confused I am inside.

T has said that texting ( to him) is important for me so that the child part can reach out and be heard and believed. Interesting comment that, as during this past week when I was unwell, I spoke to my mother on the phone and started crying. I was reaching out to her - and she simply changed the subject! The adult me would never have shown her that weakness or vulnerability just to have it shattered over again. So, yes, the child part is full of doubt that anybody cares and I need to be aware that she needs listening too.

Actually I find this whole thing quite creepy.

I tried to reach out to my family also - it was like a horror movie ! No one believed me and everyone got angry with me, (lots of screaming and yelling at me), like it was my fault. (A text book of "retraumatizing". I have never spoken to any of them about this again, even after the doctor officially diagnosed my PTSD.

The note that I wanted to mention to you is about a book I found about Mothers. It talks about how there are a lot of mothers that don't know how to love. They just never got "the hang of it". I read this book and got a whole new perspective on my mom. All of a sudden, my opinion about her somehow … changed. I almost felt sorry for her.

I started watching her and how she interacted with her grandkids (my sisters, not mine). She had no … emotion. Almost a "no care or want to care" look. I also remember when she told me that "all of you kids were accidents". (What a horrible thing to tell your kids!)

You might take a look at the book "The Emotionally Absent Mother" by J.L. Anderson. Maybe it will help you understand her better. I'm not saying that the way she treated you is right - but that she may not have known how to react and respond to you, at least in a way that would have helped you the way you needed. I'm so sorry that you had to go thru this.

 

[katz]

The thing I am learning about me is I never learned to talk to myself. No one talked to me, neglect. I have trouble coming up with language/words to think and talk to myself about. It is the emotional state I “went to” when I was ignored/neglected. I wish I could get myself to open up to myself. I feel like a zombie to myself, catatonic state. I can write here, to you all but if I try to get in touch with myself in any form, I am not there. Weird and uncomfortable and scary!

I read somewhere in the forum about the idea of "writing to myself" by addressing the child you, from the adult you. In other words, having a conversation with the little you inside.

(Hi, so-in-so. How are you doing today? Do you have anything that you would like to talk about?) I know it sounds odd - but I was surprised how much the "little me" had to say. I went back and reread the conversation. Even the handwriting is different for the "two people" that are "talking. Wow! I was amazed how much she had to tell me....and afterwards, she felt better. So I just assured "her" that I loved her and that I would always be here if she needed to talk again.

Well, it helped me anyway.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I am very scared of being overwhelmed and losing the ability to function in work or as a mother.

But I function by taking on the role that I need to in order to fit in with other people. But because I just play roles, I don't have an identity that I think of as the real me.This has made me quite vulnerable to getting into unhealthy friendships and relationships. I don't have friends or a partner at the moment, so I'm pretty much not functioning at all socially. So my ANP is problematic.

The other problem is, that I get anxious about people finding out about the secrets, and playing roles increases the feeling of keeping secrets and I try to avoid people outside of work. That is the child winning.

I think integration would help to give me an identity (maybe). But also, it's important for me to give the child a voice, so that she's not carrying secrets around. Even if we don't manage intergration, I need to do something to help the communication between the parts, and to deal with trauma.

I worked w my parts on secrets vs privacy. The word secrets has a negative connotation and privacy is a right/and a choice. This helped reduce the unpleasant feeling around those behaviors that cause shame. Knowing my dirty laundry, and choosing not to air it reduces its power.

 

[crackinthequandary]

T brought up this subject again this week, so I have gone off reading again to remind myself what it means. It relates to a developmental 'split' into parts of the personality. There are many different names for these 'parts' but it is important not to get hung up on that. It is the concept that is more important.

My understanding is that as a protective mechanism from an overwhelming childhood, you split into an 'Apparently Normal' part (ANP) and an 'Emotional' part (EP). The ANP learns to function without distress. The EP holds the trauma and all the bad memories, emotions and feelings.There can be more than one division resulting in any number of parts.

From my personal perspective my ANP goes to work, holds down a difficult job, runs the house, organises our finances , directs Rory in housework :)p) etc etc. I am businesslike and get a job done. I am happy, confident and competent.

My EP on the other hand has low self esteem, is miserable, frightened, struggles with every day life, fears the responsibility of working or driving and is totally overwhelmed with the idea of paying a bill. The EP spends a lot of time crying without reason.

It is a year since T first described this to me and It has been a huge learning curve to grasp this idea. I am still unsure as to what this actually means for me. I do know when the EP comes out I am unable to function as an adult, but can only see it with hindsight. I have discussed it with Rory and I hope he now has a better idea and maybe next time he will see what is happening before I do. T is able to intervene and put 'EP' back in the box. But I am not sure if that can just be done for ever, or if the triggers that bring out EP will lessen to a degree that the difference is no longer apparent.

Is there anyone else struggling with this at the moment?

"Putting back in the box". I don'
t know. I'd say looking through a collection of thoughts, or even files of thoughts. You have to know what it is, bring it out; "shadow work". Then you weed out. It's mindfulness; being aware. Look up "ego transcendence".

 

[shatter eyes]

Even the handwriting is different for the "two people" that are "talking. Wow! I was amazed how much she had to tel

Thats very interesting i was wondering to myself about this because i notice that i have different handwriting at different times. One is childlike big squiggly letters forming a word and the other is a cleaner smaller letters.

I will keep tabs on myself. Thanks for sharu#ng.