Suicide Is Not An Option But An Unwelcome Invitation To Hell For The Survivors

[The Albatross]

It sucks at times to be me. In my heart of hearts... though I soldier on, I feel at my core a failure to thrive. I just don't want to take anyone out with me. I have chronic diagnosis. I don't want to fight it. I want it to run it's course and to breathe my last. I just don't want to f' anyone else up before I go. That's messed up I guess isn't it? I justt don't want to f' anyone else up more than I already am.

I have had friends commit suicide. I have had troops die from dear John letters. I had a 19 year old girl die even when 'we' got her to the hospital because some dumb airman "thought" she was hypervenellating... and had to write a letter to her parents. I am bare bones and raw... I've done over 450 geriatrics and end stages, paranoid schytsoprhenics and been attacked by psyches, to protect my clients and coworkers. At some pont I have to wonder... why do I hang on and what am I waiting for? Seen hell, lived there with my ex. tried to over come and been beat down by betrayal and lies. Why breathe, why not just curl up and die? My body is more resilient than I am... it wants to heal and live. That's the only reason I'm here. That and because I don't look good "orange". If I have one more break, I have no doubt I will be in Chatahoochie shot full of thorizine. I may as well be dead.

 

[Cheshire]

I have no concept of what it feels like to live without it, so maybe it is harder for me to be sympathetic.

This is sounding weirder and weirder.

I understand where you're coming from here. It makes sense that it's harder to relate to it when you have nothing to compare to.

Another way to look at it might be to simply go out and look up the rates of suicides that are related to other suicides - for example, the number of people who kill themselves after a loved one has done the same, or the prevalence of suicide within families - not necessarily genetic, I suppose, but a learned practice.. if that's the right word. Kind of like conditioning, I guess.. just as mental illness can run in a family, with that comes suicidal tendencies.. anyway, I feel like I'm just blabbing on now.

 

[The Albatross]

Apparently I lost my ability to spell when I emote. Forgive me. It's hard some times to hear the s*it from a spouse who has never had a trauma and I've had enough from him today. We are at opposite ends of the house, and I have a sense of safety as long as he doesn't bullsh*t me with rolling out the stuff he "does" to make me a happier person. F' F' F'it. really. Alice Cooper said, "Welcome to my nightmare..." I'm feeling it right now.

 

[The Albatross]

No Cheshire, that's not a babble, that's an anchor.

 

[Kintsugi]

... or the prevalence of suicide within families - not necessarily genetic, I suppose, but a learned practice.. if that's the right word. Kind of like conditioning, I guess.. just as mental illness can run in a family, with that comes suicidal tendencies

Certainly you are not babbling. I love to hear from you, Cheshire. You're right. When I really think it over in my mind in terms of my biological family... my little sister and my brothers would be torn up. They all have diagnoses of depression I think. I know we've all had a lot of the same problems even though we didn't grow up together. They think my abuse was horrific, but I know my dad used to beat my mother pretty brutally in front of them. I don't want to be the thing that pushes them over the edge too.

 

[Tessa.]

Logically, I can understand the point of view. People who care about somebody will grieve if they die. Somebody who chooses to die is aware that they will be missed. I should agree with this point of view, but I can't. This is a topic I've thought about more than I probably should have, and I question why I feel so strongly against this viewpoint.

I think it has to do with the nature of somebody's motivations for suicide. If someone is so shattered that they would rather die than continue living, especially if they're somebody I care about, I don't want to call them selfish. I don't want to blame them for leaving "a mess", for the pain that others would feel at their death. I would want to love and support them -- not so they can die, of course, but to try and help them keep on fighting. More than anything else, I would not want to be one more person kicking them while they're at a very low point.

I'm not saying that suicide should be encouraged in any way, shape or form, and I hope nobody reads this message as such. I'm disagreeing with the mindset of "suicidal people are deliberately hurting others and should be censured for what they've done or consider doing". It's like when people say that a rape victim not reporting their assault means that they are responsible for whoever's hurt by the attacker after them -- that's an unnecessary helping of shame on a decision that people are probably not making with others, or the intent to hurt others, on their mind.

Unless it's directly endangering somebody else, how somebody deals with their body and their personal pain, is to me largely their private business. If it would hurt themselves, it's something that should be firmly combated, but with every effort possible made to spare them any further despair or shame in the process.

 

[Tinyflame]

Tessa, much of what you say I agree with; I believe it is indicative of a better understanding because you have suffered so deeply yourself, and accompanied others as well.

I think frequently suicide is accompanied by (untreated or unmanaged) depression; oftentimes too people don't have anyone that would miss them, and feel currently a burden +/or without purpose.

I also think that there is a world of difference in motivation and mindset between those who commit suicide in defiance, rage or pride, or to not have to face consequences of their actions (such as Hitler did), or those who 'feel' their presence is harming others or simply do not feel they have the resources to cope with the present moment, or feel it will actually 'benefit' those they construe they are burdening (eg. a child living under intolerable, hopeless conditions or abuse).

I think for those it is frequently not a 'selfish' act in so much as one with constricted thinking that precludes the ability to see an impact on others; an attempt to lessen or 'deaden' pain without having an accompanying (appropriate) fear to actually 'not' do it.

I think assigning more blame becomes increasingly damaging and a greater source of guilt- not 'purpose', or hope-
both for a person already feeling burdensome and for those trying to accept the situation/ realities or aftermath.
I don't think anyone can likely judge.

I agree whole-heartedly that standing with someone through it is the way to go, but uncommon and very difficult.
I too hope that no one does such a thing, nor do I advocate it, but perhaps one has to have 'been there' to comprehend the depression and isolation it creates. Or perhaps to afford such compassion: 'kicking someone when they're down' is a good analogy.
However, one has to also bear in mind the reponsibility they owe to their spouse, children and loved ones, to try not to increase their burdens or cause them grief- hopefully there is another option that can be truly worked toward, and hopefully there is someone who will be compassionate and understanding enough to help. We all only have to get through one day at a time.

For everyone who you've stood beside Tessa, they also stand with you now (and then some, xox)
(((((Hugs)))))

 

[kimba]

My uncle commited suicide after making it a very public affair. He was a Vietnam vet who came back changed (proabably had PTSD and got no care), lived his life caring for his mother and couldn't go on when she passed. He talked about it, planned it and went through with it one month to the day after my grandmother died. I know what the people left behind feel.We knew what he was going to do and could not change it. He didn't care when we told him we loved him and would miss him etc. There was no talking him out of it and it was something he felt was right for him. My suicidal thoughts came on uninvited and unplanned. I have very few family and friends left who would be upset or feel guilty if anything happened to me, but that doesn't mean I am going through with anything. Depression creates its own "world" and some of us can shake it up enough not to commit suicide and some of us can't. Sorry..touched a nerve I guess.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes, it is very hard but we have to try to forgive ourselves and forgive others, I think.
At least, I think it opens the door for greater understanding, and therefore solutions for the future, instead of blame.
I've heard it described as the 'emotional equivalent of cancer or heart disease': I think that is accurate in so far as less a 'willfull' choice as one that is characterized by giving up, though not intentionally. I don't think anyone 'chooses' to feel that way, to be honest. The only choice becomes to ask for help.

 

[shell]

Recently I was discussing my suicidal thoughts and plans with my doctor, and found it hard to believe that he made a comment that surely I wouldn't do that to my son. To suggest that I would deliberately seek to injure others seemed unhelpful. I certainly didn't choose to feel that way, and while I did get help, I am now uncomfortable about going back for the monthly review for medication. Unfortunately depression does distort how you think and feel, and while it may seem selfish to others, sometimes the reasoning can be unselfish.

 

[scrabblequeenkt]

What if there are no survivors?

 

[a3a2]

There are survivors, scrabblequeenkt, even if there is no family.
They are the police officers, the emt, the police chaplain, the neighbors, the aquaintances and many many others. I know, because I live with one of them. And I have seen his pain and watched him bring it home to our children.