Suicide Is Not An Option But An Unwelcome Invitation To Hell For The Survivors

[NukaGirl]

Not really. When you pause to consider interrelationships - somebody else is going to have trauma. Do you really want your swan song to be the "gift" that keeps on giving? I know for damn sure I don't.

Maybe you can shoulder that "legacy" but I know I can't or won't.

Not sure if you're responding to me or not, but I'll reply anyway.

The selfishness is of those who try and stop someone who cannot be helped. I've been the selfish one before, talking people down from suicide. I've also been suicidal, more so since my trauma. Though there's a difference between trauma induced depression and my depression: mine is permanent. I suffer from clinical depression. It's not going away. Ever. The trauma only gave me more reasons to kill myself. This past week and a half has been utter Hell for me in the sense that stress also acts as a trigger for anxiety, which triggers the depression. So the feelings of wanting to just curl up and die have increased thousandfold. Have I thought about killing myself? Yes. Recently? Very. And coming from the point of view of someone who is currently as such, telling me that I'm selfish and that I'm essentially burdening the ones I love with the knowledge of how I feel is not helping in the slightest. It makes me feel ten times worse about myself. So thank you for that, Albatross.

 

[Tinyflame]

I hear you @NukaGirl. Not sure if it helps at all but sometimes struggling to stay around is despite not having reasons to. We don't all have people who care, we don't all have much break in the pain (you described the cycle and triggers very well). I even know people who go to such scenes after the fact and (fortunately) they are not left traumatized. I too don't think guilt is helpful whatsoever. Yes, I wouldn't want someone to have to pick me up, but that's just makes another problem to 'solve', it doesn't solve or reduce the pain of the SI (for me).

As @ill said, I think if you're used to not thinking about yourself even incorporating an 'entitlement' to survival, or help, or a myriad of other things doesn't come easily.

 

[The Albatross]

My father also suffered from clinical depression and when he became suicidal he sought treatment. His opinion was the same as mine. He died, from cancer not from giving over to his ideation about suicide.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think all diseases and illness and suffering are by their nature horrendous for anyone going through it, and for anyone who loves them.

I know suicide is a taboo topic in most places, and comes loaded with pain and grief and strong emotion. I can only say just for myself, I don't have the capacity to judge, only to love someone.

What helped me a lot was a man and his wife's story called 'Fellow Travelers" by (Dr) Rachel Naomi Remen. Apparently it helped another Doctor involved as well. Some wounds are mortal before we even meet. But to love, accept, and love some more is the choice I take. I can't say others would view myself that way if I end up that way, but it's what brings me comfort.

We don't know how stories end. We can only try.

 

[novemberDark]

I've never felt so completely insane in my whole life, and I wouldn't even wish this on my worst enemy.

You sound everything but insane

 

[ms spock]

One thing I have always thought. That even if I did nothing but stay alive at least I caused no harm by my suicide/dying.

 

[ms spock]

There needs to be kindness and compassion with deep wisdom. You know that wise mind stuff.

We don't need to shame people for having suicidal ideation. Compassion is key - in those bad moments of struggling. I think it depends on the person and the situation.

Suicidal ideation is pretty scary for some people. They may panic and say don't be selfish because they think that might stop the person from committing suicide- but what they really mean under that is that they would miss the suicidal person. So people, who are flawed and human say what they wildly think might stop someone from committing suicide. It might not be helpful what they say but at least they are trying.

I think shaming people for those feelings is not helpful.

Now if you know someone well you might say - hey that is not fair as we would miss you at X event or B situation or Z person would be devastated to lose you - not to guilt trip the person in to not committing society but with the intent to show that person they are worthwhile and valuable. Sometimes you need to look what is behind people's comments, rather than what they say. People may express themselves clumsily. I don't always express my self clearly as well.

Now if you know someone really well you might say "Have you watched "Muppets From Space!" and they say no and you say well you can't kill yourself until you have seen that movie, sometimes humour, a simple touch, a kindness, or an acceptance in this now that this person can't be here right now, to let someone be, (whilst of course making sure they are safe) is powerful. To acknowledge that this is to painful to be with, and then to gently work on a few simple skills to learn to learn to manage this tremendous emotional pain may be helpful.

Look I really don't have any of the answers. As most of you would know from my diary and my posts around the forum suicidal ideation has been a huge issue for me on a long time basis. I did not manage last October at all well and it was a most humbling experience.

I would not have managed my childhood without the strategy of suicidal ideation, I simply wouldn't have made it - I would have gone mad. My psychiatrist has talked to me about this.

What I had to do was walk to the other side and start to learn how to emotionally regulate and learn how to have a life and I am starting pretty late at 44 but better than not starting at all.

Sometimes to point out that people would miss them - can be helpful. There are many strategies that can be used. It depends on your personality and mental health at times.

This is a robust and lively discussion and I appreciate all the contributions. Suicide is pretty common - my partner's grandmother committed suicide and my neighbours brother recently committed suicide. The more we talk about it perhaps the more we can all embrace each other and we can carry all of us through.

I almost didn't make it through last year. And I feel a little sad about that.

 

[ill]

My father also suffered from clinical depression and when he became suicidal he sought treatment. His opinion was the same as mine. He died, from cancer not from giving over to his ideation about suicide.

Many people do seek help/treatment, sometimes over and over again, for their suicidal ideation. Sometimes it doesn't always work. Sometimes people do all of the things they're "supposed" to and it's still not enough.

 

[Tinyflame]

Someone in another post said SI is a warning sign, I guess it can be looked upon that way. Seems the timing is always bad, at best. Wonder anyone can talk about it at all.

 

[NukaGirl]

My father also suffered from clinical depression and when he became suicidal he sought treatment. His opinion was the same as mine. He died, from cancer not from giving over to his ideation about suicide.

Some aren't as strong as others. Doesn't mean they're weak or selfish for giving up. Just means they couldn't handle it as well as others. Some people cannot deal wih it no matter what they do to fix it.

 

[ms spock]

Many people do seek help/treatment, sometimes over and over again, for their suicidal ideation. Sometimes it doesn't always work. Sometimes people do all of the things they're "supposed" to and it's still not enough.

And my heart goes out to them.

I suffer from chronic and seemingly, at times, intractable suicidal ideation. I remember now when I am like this that I only have to stay alive for this now. Just now. I have suffered from this from a really young age 8 years and under. It kept me alive. If I had not had a mental out I would have gone crazy, my psychiatrist is emphatic on that.

This is where we scaffold people together - get those connections going, even if it is cyber disco dancing in our chat room. Contact with people, if possible, or some self soothing or some distraction. We just keep throwing ideas around. Even if the suicidal ideation is not abated at least some little care goes into a person's heart, over time I hope that that makes a difference.

Being big hearted with small random acts of kindness to others can be very beneficial.

Your compassion and non judgementalness opens the doors for discussion.

 

[ms spock]

Someone in another post said SI is a warning sign, I guess it can be looked upon that way. Seems the timing is always bad, at best. Wonder anyone can talk about it at all.

That is a wonderful way of looking at it. Somehow, somewhere, this person needs their soul tended to, their body might need medical help to get well, their heart/emotions might need skills and practice to live in different ways.