Talking About Sex

[Hashi]

I'm not sure I've understood correctly. Is it an abusive/traumatic experience that you're wondering about telling the detail of? Or is it other experiences that you chose but which were influenced by your history?

If it's the first one, I don't know what would be true for other people but my experience has been that it was healing to talk about some of the details. If the touch was traumatic, then I tried to say what it was. I did this mostly by reading out bits from my journal, dream diary or something I'd written for the session. It was incredibly difficult, and I sometimes felt overcome with shame afterwards, but that was something I needed to look at and realise that it wasn't my shame to own. I had to do a lot of talking with my T before and afterwards about my fears of her judging me or thinking I was disgusting.

I had to pace myself as well. It's hard to know when it's right to talk and when it would be too much. All I could do was try a tiny bit then see how I felt.

If it was a forced or coerced experience I personally wouldn't call it sex because it isn't shared intimacy or physical pleasure. I say that because I think talking about that is very different from talking about sex, and I wonder if seeing it as different could help. I'm actually very open talking about sex with friends or T, but I find it awful to talk about trauma experiences or how they later influenced me. For me, it's things like being shamed and controlled that are so hard to disclose and that's abuse or assault, not sex. It's because I want to get through the feelings of having been powerless and degraded that I need to discuss it.

Do you think it would help if you had a clear idea of what you'd want to achieve by talking about it rather than why your therapist might want you to?

 

[Meadowsweet]

I'm so sorry for not being able to explain clearly. Thankyou for everyone having patience with that.

This is an abusive/traumatic experience. I have talked about it briefly in therapy and my homework has been to see if I could write out the trauma in more detail.

I've managed to write it out and I've been reading through what I've written in an attempt to get used to it.

But the next step will be to share it with my therapist.

I think part of the problem is that when I read through what I've written, it takes me back to how I felt during the trauma.

During the trauma I dissociated to the point of having no awareness of my thoughts, feelings or cognition of what was happening. In that state, I don't know what I want or don't want, I'm just obeying instructions without understanding why.

It leaves me feeling extremely confused about what's happened and frightened that I've lost so much control.

I think, as I am re-experiencing those feelings I project them onto the therapy situation and fear that I'll do something that is beyond my 'normal' principles.

I am listening to the advice here, and I think I need to rest for a while to get back to knowing what I want and why I'm doing this. Then I might write that down, to remind myself that it is my choice if I start to forget why I'm doing it.

 

[Hashi]

Sending you support. I know this has been so difficult for me, so I'm thinking of you.

 

[maddog]

I am really hearing you MS, and think I can relate to what you are struggling with here and why it is so difficult to articulate. Hell, I'm not sure that my attempted response is any easier to articulate, but for what it's worth, it sounds as though you have a very empathic, skilled and intuitive T who is taking lots of care to make sure you are progressing at a safe speed and intensity for you.

While I know that having this knowledge isn't enough on its own to compensate for your fears, perceived loss of control etc, I think it is important to try to attach some significance to this fact and to accept that this is one of the times when you probably really do need to defer to her wisdom and guidance. I think it would be really useful to try to explain your fears and concerns to her just as you have explained them here, as I think they will make sense to her and might help her to fill in some puzzle pieces as to what you are struggling with.

I had the first of what I know will be a number of very, very difficult discussions about traumatic sexual events just yesterday with my T. To say that I was distressed is an understatement, and I barely scratched the surface of what I need to say eventually, but for what it's worth, a few things that really helped me were that he was allowing me to free narrative about the issue to the extent that I could, but was also willing to step in with some more specific prompting questions when I was struggling. Somehow, sometimes, being able to directly answer a question, rather than trying to just pluck the details out of thin air, helped to get me talking, and once on a roll it became a little easier - his direct questions were always just a little off centre of the really difficult stuff, but allowed me to answer in a way that led me to that difficult stuff, if that makes any sense.

It also helped that when he could tell I was becoming overwhelmed, he would stop and just ask me to tell him what was "happening for me", ie, what am I thinking and feeling right then, which just allowed me to step out of the story a bit, take stock of myself and give him a barometer of how I was travelling as well. Somehow it made me feel more in control, as I could tell him if I was really overwhelmed and he could react accordingly.

And you know, there came a point at which I was at my capacity for coping, and he knew it and I didn't, and he called a stop and gently but firmly told me not to go any further. I never thought I would need someone else to be more aware of my distress levels than I could be, but... I did, and it was the right thing.

I say all of this only to say that those were a few techniques that did help me, and which, I hope, will help me when we have to return to this in the future. I am lucky, I have a good T, and it sounds like you do too, and combined with your obviously very considerable self awareness, your preparation and your determination to find a way through this, I do think you'll get there... cold comfort though I know that is for now.

Sorry for the novel, am just really thinking of you, and sharing the utter shame and humiliating horror of all of this. I wish nobody ever had to tell of such evil things...

Maddog

 

[Ice_Fire]

I've not been able to talk about the sexual abuse at all with my T. It's not that I don't trust her, or don't feel comfortable talking to her...it's just way too personal. I get stuck...I know what I want to say but I can't get it out. I feel as if I should, but I feel disgusting thinking about it, never mind saying it. I've written bits and pieces out but...I still can't bring myself to tell/show my T. I'm stuck at a crossroads with it.

I wish I knew how to help us with this. Just wanted to let you know that I'm also with you on this one.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Well I don't know how I will manage this in therapy, but I have calmed down considerably.

At the moment, I'm able to see that in the collaboration between me and therapist, I have to push myself, but at the same time, I have to not push too much. And that is something I have to trust my therapist with, because my judgement isn't good.

I've kind of put my fears on hold for now. I get to a point where I can say to myself, 'therapy isn't until Monday and I can't think anymore about this until then'. It's to stop me winding myself up into a panic.

But I'm glad I spoke about it here. So often, when I'm really struggling I keep silent because I know I won't be able to explain coherently. But people here have been so patient and understanding, it is a good sign maybe.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I had the exact same feelings you stated in your first post on this topic Meadow. EXACT. But I discovered the more I explored my reservations that my boundaries were based on shame, not my personality like I thought. I am still not the sort of person to just talk easily about sex like it's hilarious or 'natural', in fact I'm very shy in that sense and still blush during kissing scenes on tv.

But I am able to tell my T now some of the things regarding my trauma and I am extremely proud of that. In order to work up to it, I wrote it down over and over again. I think I had to write one experience 4 times before I could talk about it in therapy. But it felt so good to get it out, to have my T hear it and understand where I was coming from.

He said something very interesting about how knowing what I was thinking and feeling about the trauma and how I described it helping him to understand who I am and where I'm at. I think that may be part of why your T wants you to talk about it. So I would suggest not only reading what you've written, but rewrite it over and over again. That's what helped me.

 

[AngelaMarie]

Meadow,
I just want to wish you luck with this. I am not an expert at all I can just say not to let yourself be pushed too hard. Maybe you just aren't ready YET, ya know?

Take care of yourself!

 

[shell]

I think I trust my therapist to be professional and know what she's doing. And I understand why there are things that I need to re-live and process, and the methods that she uses to help me to do that. But it feels very un-natural for me to talk about sexual experiences in detail.

So I don't know where to draw the line regarding talking openly about bodily parts and sexual experiences in therapy.

Thank you for posting this. Last week I skirted around this exact same issue. I've been having a lot of flashbacks, and the discussion was that the only way to get them under control is to discuss in detail what I'm feeling when I relive the body memories or flashbacks.

When I said that they were disgusting, and I'm not able to talk about it, he asked did I feel I would disgust him? I'm sure he has heard it all before.

I can't do this, like you said I wouldn't discuss my sex life with my best friend, I don't even discuss sex in any detail with my husband. He said my reluctance to discuss sex is due to my abuse, but it goes against my own personal beliefs. I discussed being raped, without detailing too much, but this is a whole other level of abuse.

I'm supposed to read from my journal what I wrote down, but it makes me feel so emotional I don't see how I do it. I can't stand the thought of falling apart and crying in front of him, it's not that I don't trust him, I guess I don't trust me.

I wish I could help you with this one, but I can at least say your not alone.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I went to my therapy session today, with my experiences written out.

I explained how I felt about reading it out and my therapist listened and asked me questions to get to the bottom of those feelings, like what do I think might happen etc. My major concern was that my therapist would think it was my fault and that I didn't deserve help.

After talking those fears through, she put it to me that I didn't have to read through my writing, but that I wouldn't feel the positive effects as much if I didn't. She also said if I felt myself going into dissociation, I should stop and tell her as early as possible.

At first, I stared at the paper and literally couldn't talk. So my therapist did something quite unexpected and asked me to to close my eyes and get in touch with the part of me that goes to uni. I feel quite ashamed that I have different sides of myself, and that is the first time it's felt ok for me to be that way. But also, the person that goes to uni would never ever not be able to read something aloud. So strangely it worked to get me started.

The other strange thing that happened, is that I cried and felt sorry for the woman that was going through this trauma.

When I did dissociate, she stopped me and helped me find my grounding and I was able to carry on. It was very difficult and I always shock myself by how much I shake and my anxious gestures. But I did it and I'm pleased it's over with.

Afterwardswe talked about my feelings, which I still have no idea about. I have no names for what I'm feeling. She also helped me understand that I do have things in the back of my mind when I dissociate. And that in this case there is a strong chance that my feelings were valid. She said lot's of other stuff about it not being my fault etc, which I'm not able to feel at the moment.

But next week, we're going to re-live a small part of this trauma and try to put the better thinking into the memory. I think that makes sense. I'm just ready to sleep now.

 

[shell]

That gives me hope, I just spent an hour writing out my journal for tomorrow, and I am shitting myself, not about talking, but giving in to my emotions and crying.

I am also two people, the one goes to work and the one who falls apart with PTSD. The one who goes to work is always the one who attends therapy!

 

[maddog]

OH, MS, I can feel and so relate to your utter exhaustion tonight after that session today. It sounds excruciatingly difficult, yet very validating, and you sound as though you have a T worth her weight in gold.

I wish it didn't have to be so tough, or vulnerable, or shattering... somehow, some day, it gets easier, they tell me it does, those who would know...

Huge luck for tomorrow Shell. I will never forget the first time I cried in front of my T. I was literally, openly terrified of what would happen and was so convinced of his disapproval and disgust that it literally took me many weeks to be able to acknowledge that I wasn't seeing them. There is a point at which it feels good and safe to show emotion, I swear there really is. There isn't much I've learned or far I've progressed in a lot of ways, but this is one badge of learning I am proud to wear, and wish so much I could pin on others to help speed this process along.

Trusting you both have safe therapeutic experiences and aftermaths today...

Maddog