Telling What's Dangerous And What's My Imagination

[sun seeker]

I have a problem I have never heard others talk about, but I'm wondering if anyone here has experienced it or has any insight into it.

So I have a lot of anxiety and sometimes when it gets really bad, episodes of symptoms like OCD, though I would hesitate to call it OCD in its own right because it seems more like an extension of the anxiety than a separate entity. For instance, I don't have rituals I have to do the same way every day, but I do have times where I feel the need to do the same thing many times in a row to reassure myself, even when it goes way beyond any logical possibility of danger. That's not the question, just the background.

What I'm wondering about is a related problem I've noticed. I feel I don't have a normal sense of what is and what is not actually dangerous. When I have these extreme episodes of anxiety, for instance, I will go to incredible lengths to make sure I am not putting anyone in danger - my greatest fear is that someone might be hurt by my negligence, so I will check over and over to make sure, for example, that I've turned off burners and faucets and locked away anything remotely dangerous. My danger sensors are way, way overactive. In that sense, if you want someone to take care of something important to you, I'm your person, but I'm likely to drive myself close to an ulcer in the process!

The flip side though, is that I feel I don't have a clear sense of when something actually might be dangerous. I will try to talk myself out of worrying over something because almost always, the thing I am worrying about doesn't ever happen. But the trouble is, I am so used to my worry being excessive that it seems like my ability to differentiate when there actually is something to worry about has dulled. So I generally act as if everything I worry about were a potential problem, because I don't trust myself to be able to tell the difference. Once in a while I'll ask someone for a second opinion, but if I did this every time I'd drive people crazy.

If that made any sense at all, can anyone relate to this?

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I think that you should indeed seek out second opinions as a part of doing a "reality check". No, don't always go to the same person, as it will drive them nuts, but yes, seek out another opinion as that can help "reset" your meter on what is normal and what is not. Sometimes I pop into chat and ask for a reality check. Sometimes I ask a friend. Over time these "checks" set in and decrease in frequency as I can remember what I was told previously.

I can relate to having OCD like symptoms. I've checked the DSM and while I'm not qualified to diagnose, it is clear that I do not meet the diagnostic criterion for OCD as there is a time parameter that does not apply to me. That doesn't mean that I don't suffer from my obsessions, because at times they are horrendous and I've thought to myself that if people with the full blown disorder all have worse obsessions, the suicide rate for OCD would be sky high. (Yeah, that's how bad they are.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that this symptom definitely lies outside the scope of PTSD but doesn't qualify me for another disorder, so maybe that's what's going on with you?

 

[sun seeker]

I think that you should indeed seek out second opinions as a part of doing a "reality check". No, don't always go to the same person, as it will drive them nuts, but yes, seek out another opinion as that can help "reset" your meter on what is normal and what is not.

It's funny, that is my instinct when in one of these episodes, but the most common advice I've seen for OCD is the opposite: they tell you that seeking reassurance will only strengthen the "OCD monster" and you should instead tell yourself your thoughts aren't real and learn to sit with the discomfort until it goes away on its own. Only my problem is with the part of the premise where they say the thoughts aren't real. A lot of the time I honestly can't tell if they are real or not, so I lose credibility with myself when trying to say "this isn't real, it's just the OCD" when I'm not sure whether that is true.

Also - at the worst times - the things I worry about are pretty wild. I mean, when in my right mind I know it's crazy to worry that a piece of firewood outside in the snow is going to spontaneously combust or that I have to rinse my cat's water dish twenty times in a row in case a microscopic amount of (natural, chemical-free) dish detergent remains on it, but these are the kinds of things that scare me, and there are times it can happen a dozen or more times a day. I've never participated in chat. Would people be sympathetic to things like that or just tell me I'm nuts?

I haven't gotten a formal diagnosis of this or anything else - haven't tried - but I've taken online tests for OCD where they say something like if you score more than twelve points, you should talk to someone about it, and I would score twice that. It just hasn't gotten to the top of my list with all the other problems I also have. But you're right, when it's bad, it's horrible.

 

[ghotiff]

It's funny, that is my instinct when in one of these episodes, but the most common advice I've seen for OCD is the opposite: they tell you that seeking reassurance will only strengthen the "OCD monster" and you should instead tell yourself your thoughts aren't real and learn to sit with the discomfort until it goes away on its own. Only my problem is with the part of the premise where they say the thoughts aren't real

I have a friend with OCD and they check in with me for reality but then armed with the knowledge that's it's an OCD thing, they then do the hard yards of sitting with the discomfort....so in this example, checking in with me makes sense and I have no objection to these questions as from my perspective they are easy to answer. Also, sometimes it's not just OCD, it's a real problem but just made worse by OCD.

 

[sun seeker]

I have a friend with OCD and they check in with me for reality

You have a lucky friend!

checking in with me makes sense and I have no objection to these questions as from my perspective they are easy to answer

Okay... I may take you up on that! :-)

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't see it as seeking reassurance. That is VERY different. I see it as doing a reality check which is pure CBT, through and through. OCD uses CBT? Maybe not. I just know it helps with my obsessions.

What works for one may not work for another. Sitting with your thoughts and letting them pass on through sounds like ACT, not CBT. Sometimes ACT works better for me though. Oh, wait, telling yourself the thoughts aren't real isn't ACT... (Fighting the thoughts=CBT, letting them move on through without paying attention to them=ACT)

 

[Tinyflame]

Could it simply be a consequence of hypervigilance or adrenaline? I describe it as feeling revved up or doom or fear (all at once), but then it's natural I think for the mind to find a cognitive explanation ('reason') to try to explain it & then react (do something).

Also underlying fear for other's well-being due to loss, etc. And/or a sense of personal responsibility for their safety too, or attempt to control or to especially prevent what may have occurred at some level before (a 'trauma re-enactment' of sorts)?

 

[sun seeker]

Solara, what helps you may not be seeking reassurance, I'm just saying that is what I feel like doing when in that state. Yes, CBT is the most common treatment for OCD. I'm not convinced it would work for me though.

Junebug, I haven't worked out exactly why it happens, but I do have some observations. It comes in cycles and is strongest when I am the most afraid of losing anything good in my life, including anyone I am close to. That is an extreme terror that completely bypasses the logic centres of the brain and I am sure began in earliest childhood. When things are going relatively well for me the association is "I have something good, so it is going to be taken away from me and I have to fight to keep it". Then if I do lose whatever that is, depression sets in. I can see the cycle but am not sure about some of the things I focus on in those states; they don't all fit that specific focus. It's more like I get into a panic trying to keep my environment under control and maybe other things get added onto my existing state. It's like being in a trance.

What I haven't found in my reading about OCD is this problem of blurring reality with the obsession. It seems as if everyone else has a sense that I'm missing that tells them what's safe and what isn't. I'm so unsure about where to draw the line that I spend inordinate amounts of time trying to cover all my bases to ward off every possible danger. I've never heard anyone else complain of that. Example: I know that it's dangerous to mix certain cleaning supplies, so I just don't keep them in my house. But one of the things I do for money is clean other people's houses. There have been times I've panicked not knowing exactly what "mix" means and have stayed in a house long beyond the time I am getting paid for, afraid in case a rag I used bleach on might have come in contact with a different rag I used an ammonia product on last week, even though said rag is in a different part of the house and I spent ten minutes rinsing them both (in separate sinks, and washing my hands for ages in between). I've sat in a closed room with a well-rinsed rag, hoping no one wonders what I'm doing, so that in case a toxic gas forms I'll be the one breathing it instead of the people who live in the house. Writing this I know it seems ridiculous, but I just don't have a sense of where the line is between the real danger and the impossibility. I truly have no idea. I've gone through this so many times, and it is one of many factors that make me very close to disabled - I mean, if it's so hard for me to do something as simple as clean a house, what can I do? I've gone home shaking and in tears over things like this. This is an example of what I'm wondering about: does anyone else experience anything like this, and does anything help?

Good thing I have a therapy session tomorrow. This wasn't what I intended to work on, but maybe it should be.

Now you guys know just how weird I am.:)

 

[ghotiff]

It seems as if everyone else has a sense that I'm missing that tells them what's safe and what isn't.

My friend has this for particular areas. Maybe it's the result of their long term therapy that makes it relatively easy for them (and thus me) to recognize that genre. But in those genres they can't tell if it's safe or not. They think it's OCD related, but they are not sure....and that's when they check in with me.

I don't have OCD but there are a few things that get to me due to my child abuse and I get really paranoid about my kids safety around those things. In these moments my friend reminds me that it's just a "me" thing and there is no real decrease in their general safety...but I can't tell this unless it's a particular one I've already had the conversation about.

Hope that helps.

 

[sun seeker]

But in those genres they can't tell if it's safe or not.

I don't have OCD but there are a few things that get to me due to my child abuse and I get really paranoid about my kids safety around those things.

Right, both those things make sense. For the latter, I too have gotten to the point where I can tell the difference (usually) between something that is triggering me because it is related to something that happened to me, and something that would bother anyone, and act accordingly.

The OCD feels like a separate issue though, a very different state of mind. I'm wondering for your friend - and it's okay not to answer if this is getting too personal - do those things where they can't tell if it's safe or not have any obvious reason behind them? I mean, for instance, someone who had nearly drowned might be paranoid around water. I haven't figured out why I should be so muddled around other people's safety, so terrified that something will happen to someone because of a mistake I made. Sometimes the obsessions can have to do with my own safety, but not nearly as much. The scenarios my mind dreams up that I have to avoid can be very diverse so it isn't around one specific thing that would make sense based on anything that has happened to me. Just a frantic sense of being responsible for the safety of others, and I'm not sure why.

 

[Rumors]

I do similar things @sun seeker. I do it more so with things that pertain to my kid like riding a school bus, being at an amusement park, shopping at the mall, going to the dentist...lol. I feel like I have to do a background check on parents, ask when the last time the bus had maintenance, or when the amusement park ride was checked. Then i require the paperwork to verify said schedule!!! Everyday things I can manage now that I am taking medication, but I realized that my "OCD" was really a result of an anxiety issue that just led me down a dark path. Once I was able to get the anxiety and panic attacks in check, I could then see situations for what they were. It is normal for kids to ride a bus, play at other kids homes (not everyone is a pedophile), go on water slides, etc. Although things in life can be dangerous, I am able to measure reasonable risk better meaning not everything poses a life and death risk in my mind. I could only envision a horrible bus accident, a parent beating my kid, a water slide that collapsed, a plane that crashed when in reality those things are not likely to happen especially because I am an aware parent that is involved in their kids life. I did this with many other things as well, but I realized it more after I had my kid and started down that path of critical decision making. I was a wreck!!! Do I let him camp out with the cub scouts or not???? Will he get eaten by a wolf? Lol.
Keep a check on your anxiety as you move into these nuances. You may find that they are triggered by stress and anxiety more than actually having OCD. I have to take anxiety meds to combat that. I am thankful for them bc they have made life far more peaceful. My plan is to work my way into yoga and such in hopes that I won't have to take meds forever. Good luck! I hope this helps!

 

[sun seeker]

Keep a check on your anxiety as you move into these nuances. You may find that they are triggered by stress and anxiety more than actually having OCD.

Oh yes, I already know these episodes are triggered by anxiety. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. As I see it, OCD is just a different presentation of anxiety. Is that not the usual way?