Terrified -- What Do I Do?

[bitterfight_]

Before I begin, I have PTSD from severe bullying (physical assaults, harassment, threats, etc). Recently, I am in a study for depression, and last week during my assessment I saw the psychiatrist and talked to him about my parents, and I felt bad about what I haven't said about my parents and my relationship with them. I told him that they were basically great, and a bit controlling, but I feel bad about not telling him the truth. Below is what's been going on recently, and I guess I was just wondering if I should tell him all of this or not? Should I email him, and give him a bit, or just call him?

Okay so, on May 20th, I stayed over at a friend's house to try and rid myself of my, sad thoughts I guess... Anyways, on the 21st (Yesterday) I decided to stay over again. I went to a puppy training class with this friend, and we left around 7pm and it would be over around 8. After that, we had to drop the puppy off at her house, and then drive to my house. The drive back is about 30 mins. In that timespan, when I had my phone in my bag, my mother phoned me numerous times, and texted me. In her voicemails, she angrily asked me to respond to her messages, and if I didn't, she threatened to come looking for me. She's done this many times before, and it usually involves me not answering her when she wants me to. She gets mad when I question her logic, as "something could happen" to me, and will turn it around and say "fine, move out then! I don't care!" or she will belittle the things I can't do, like sleep with the lights off, or always keep my room clean, or that I text her if my PTSD symptoms are going wild. My mother has been described to me as controlling by other people, and I find I am always defending her because "she's just looking out for me".

She's texted my friends before, and has called them as well, and it's extremely embarrassing. As someone who is almost 21 years old, my mother doesn't comprehend basic boundaries at all. In her eyes, she's being my mom, and all mothers do this. In her eyes, because I am still struggling to do some "adult"-like things, I am unable to be an actual legitimate adult, and therefore she has the right to call me and hound me if I don't answer her. I can understand if I didn't show up at home one night, but she does this during the day, and it doesn't matter what time it is, or who I'm with, or if I just answered her 10, 20, or 30 mins prior. If she wants me to answer, I have to, or something must've happened to me. On top of that, she's recently been making comments like "see you sometime soon then I guess" and "you're never home" if I choose to go out with a friend on a day off. She's always saying it's just because she loves me and cares about me, but it's suffocating. She's gone as far as to call my work before and ask them if I've shown up as well. I have a spending issue, so she has control of my savings account, but she's constantly using that as another excuse for her own controlling behavior and "right" to call me. If we get into a fight because I feel overwhelmed, it becomes a "You're hurting me" and then I am to blame.

Just last February, we got into a massive fight, where she said things like: I'm "making her life miserable", I need to "get better soon or get out", and she "can't stand "this (referring to my anger and my breakdowns) anymore". She went on to say "what is A (my T) teaching you anyways? What do you talk about?" and when I wouldn't answer, she'll scream at me. She's also said things like "Why do you always choose people who treat you like crap? Why do you let them? Do you like being treated like shit? Do you feel like you deserve it?". She'll say therapy isn't working when I have these breakdowns, and every time I have an episode like this, she belittles me by saying that therapy isn't working and I'll never get better etc. She's said to me "I don't know why you feel like shit because there's plenty of people who have it worse. people have said and done horrible shit to me too, but do you think I go back in the past like you do all the time? there are people who have it worse." If I become upset in any manner, usually in regards to my PTSD, she's always the one to say shit like "I knew I was a bad mother from the day you were born, look at how you've turned out" (she had postpartum depression for almost 2 years). At the same time though, she was talking to my grandma on the phone and she was like "she was FINE around her birthday, but apparently she felt like shit so who knows anymore. didn't you know, she's mentally ill (she said this with sarcasm and like, a sneer)". She gets me so worked up that I start screaming, hitting, and punching myself (basically trying to hurt myself) and she will threaten to have me "locked up" and then she will threaten to leave. If I scream more, she has (many times) brought up her hand to my face and threatened to slap me. She's only actually slapped me once. She tries to justify this by saying "I don't know how to calm you down, you get so hysterical". I just.. I'm so lost. And triggered. She's coming home tonight to talk about our recent fight about her controlling behavior and I'm scared of it turning into a full-blown fight.

What do I do?

 

[Hashi]

I think it would be really good to tell the psychiatrist about all this. I'm not sure if the psychiatrist is who you mean when you say T, but if you have a separate therapist I would talk to them as well.

I'm not sure there's much you can do in advance of your discussion with your mother tonight. It's a much longer term thing to look at and work through, I think.

Can you postpone the discussion with your mother? Either tell the truth - you're not up to it today and don't want it to turn it into a fight, you need to do it on a different day. Or tell a story that gets you out of it - upset stomach, headache, puppy emergency or whatever. You're entitled to do either, and if your mother wants to rant and yell about it that's her problem.

What you say reminds me very much of my mother, who unfortunately was abusive on top of this but I'm thinking about the control and manipulation you describe (by manipulation I mean her saying things like you're making her life miserable, trying to guilt trip you and make you feel in the wrong).

You may not be expecting to hear this but I think being aware and addressing it when you're 21 is a really positive thing. I didn't have enough awareness and wasn't in a position to do anything about it (no therapy or support). I have often thought how different things would have been if I'd done something about it when I was 20 or 21. So it's poignant for me to read your post.

I don't think it will be easy to address, but I think it's important to do that and it will be worthwhile in the end. I'd like to encourage you to work to set some very strong boundaries (with your psychiatrist's/therapist's help). The one thing I did manage with my own mother was to take a break from seeing her when I was 27. My sisters say it made her take stock and her behaviour actually improved.

Unfortunately that's the only stand that either I or the rest of my family took, and as a result her behaviour is now off the scale. For me, this is epitomised by the fact that about a year ago my mother had a screaming fit because she didn't like my hair clip. I'm not exaggerating. I see how she has progressed over the years to this point. I wish I had done something when I was 21. So, hard as it is, I see that you can do this and I hope that with support you'll be able to.

For the short term, I think just protect yourself and get out of it either truthfully or however you need to.

 

[Laura 2]

Hi bf

I think Hashi's right, you need to talk with your therapist/psychiatrist about your relationship with your mother.

Also, I hope you'll forgive me for saying this...I'm a mother of grown up children who are well past your age but I remember that age so well. My experience, FWIW, is that I used to worry myself sick about my children at that age: they were so much like adults and legally able to do anything they liked, but they were still vulnerable and even reckless without realising how vulnerable and reckless they were.

If you were my daughter, with all the PTSD and that, I'd be climbing the walls if I didn't get a text or call within a few hours of trying to get hold of you. Even if only to say 'I'm fine. Speak later'.

One of the things I've learnt as a mother is that you never ever stop being a mother and you never ever stop being worried when your children are disturbed. I also learnt pretty early on that parenthood is one long process of letting go...It's a real balancing act.

I can also remember being so fraught during that demi-adult period of my children's lives that I said some off-the-wall things in desperation. Thankfully, they forgave me, as I forgave them of course!

So, I wonder if your natural and healthy instinct to individuate and establish yourself as an autonomous adult is made far more difficult and complex by the effects/aftermath of all you've been through? Also, your parents would probably have been secondary victims of the severe bullying you've suffered. They would have been so upset and even traumatised by it all too. (I know I would have been). Crime in whatever form rarely affects only the primary victim and it's something that police and medical services are only just beginning to understand.

I don't know, but do you think your mother could benefit from counselling? Neither of you should have to deal with all this alone.

best wishes
laura

 

[Justmehere]

She sounds like a bit of bully too - fueled by her worry and anxiety about you. Do I understand right that you still live with her? If so, I would suggest considering moving out - and no matter what, I would for sure bring this up with the psychiatrist.

 

[bitterfight_]

@Hashi - The psychiatrist is separate from my therapist. Actually I'm kind-of in between therapists right now, and only have a social worker acting as a psychologist, and he's nice but I don't like him, nor do I trust him really. I don't really trust any of them, since I only just got a referral to them and I've only just started getting help from this team. I agree with you, which is why I postponed it, and told her I had a stomach bug and a headache and I went to lie down. It's just hard, because during the assessment the psychiatrist asked two things that I said "no" to. He asked if my mother has ever threatened to hit me or actually hit me, and if she was controlling. Both of which I lied and said no to, and he repeated himself, but I said no again. I feel like a liar if I call him back and say "actually, you know what -" kinda thing. I don't know what to do, because I'm only supposed to see him every 3 months (for a re-assessment because of the study I'm in), and only supposed to contact him if something has come up. I absolutely hate talking on the phone, and he has an email listed, so I'm wondering if I should shoot him an email or call or what.. Anyways, thanks for the advice, and sharing a bit of your story with me, and I definitely just kinda backed off from her for now so that I don't have to deal with feeling triggered.

Hi @Laura 2 - I think so too. I understand my mother's concern, and worry, but she tends to take it to an unhealthy level. It's hard to accept that she's worried because it almost always turns into a full-blown argument, with her usually screaming at me, threatening to leave forever (or hit me) and then saying that she "had to" act like that, because "I don't know how to calm you down, you get so hysterical". I can understand being a mother and caring for your children, but when you threaten to do these things and justify it with "I'm just looking out for you, something could happen to you", it doesn't exactly look caring. I definitely agree with the fact that as I am trying to individuate and establish myself as an adult has run into walls (ie: sleeping with the lights off, reckless spending issues, and keeping my room tidy), and as you pointed out, is most likely because of the aftermath of the crap I've been through, but her behavior is only fueling a fire that I'm trying to dampen. I definitely could see where she has been traumatized by what has happened to me too, so thank you for making me understand (and see) another side of it. I know my mother could benefit from counselling, as she was recently in a toxic (almost abusive) environment at her recent workplace, and has issues now due to that too. Thank you for your best wishes, and I will try talking to her about some of this when I can get her at an emotionally balanced time.

@Justmehere I'd just say overcontrolling. She suffocates me constantly, and crosses a lot of boundaries, but I guess my behavior would sometimes fuel that confusion of boundaries. Yes, I still live with both of my parents, and I plan on doing so for another 2 years ish until I finish my bachelor's degree, unfortunately.

 

[Laura 2]

Thanks for your considered response @bitterfight_

I would bet all I have that however she acts, your mother is always coming from a place of extreme worry about you. Her behaviour is a reflection of how inadequate, terrified for you, and overloaded she is...I'm sorry to say, I've been there with one of my children when he was going through his reckless and cocky, drug-fuelled stage which, no matter what I did, landed him in bankruptcy and a conviction for common assault (on someone else). Mostly, it rebounded on me as his primary parent and supporter. We somehow got through it and, a decade on, he's now an upstanding citizen with a good job etc, but it's left scars all round.

And I'm not at all saying that you're in that sort of trouble! Just that watching your children go through their own hell is as bad as, if not worse than going through your own.

I do hope you and your mum can find a calm, quiet space to sit and listen to each other. I'm sure she wants the best for you, regardless of how she loses it and frightens you - and, I should think, herself.

 

[jmni]

I understand why a mother could panic and be very vigilant about protecting her child. But if you are going to "puppy class" it sounds like you have pretty tame friends.

Being concerned isn't an excuse to torment someone or be abusive. A lot of what she is doing just sounds like stalking. If a boyfriend behaved this way anyone would call it stalking. For example, continuously texting when you are away from her, becoming angry when you don't respond, calling your friends and your work, arguing, being emotionally abusive. I find it very offensive that she is even harassing someone who has ptsd.

I have been stalked. By my own mother, creeps, people who I don't even know... What I learned about stalkers is everything is in their own mind and they will believe what they have decided to believe and act like they are entitled to treat you like shit and do whatever they want to. They are cruel and they will not stop until they get bored and they have no more use for you. They're basically just users and they use people up because they have problems that they will always be incapable of dealing with. It's like being caught in a tornado. You will only get out, when they throw you out and by then you'll already have so too much damage.

The danger when it is a parent is that they always have the excuse. You are already ingrained to "honor" them and believe they are looking out for you for your own good. But is it really doing you that much good to put up with someone who has no respect for boundaries, who is treating you like a child, and giving you a headache everyday? Should you' really feel bound to "honor" someone who is like this. Isn't it a bit ironic that she would ask you why you always let people treat you badly, when she is forcing you to allow her to treat you so badly? It's not fair to you to be forced to ignore and bury the feelings produced by the cruel things that she says.

My advice is to save up money and move out and to continue to save your money so you will never have to go back to her. You are nearly 21, you don't need to live at home. You need to be in a quiet place where you can get better.

 

[Laura 2]

What I learned about stalkers is everything is in their own mind and they will believe what they have decided to believe and act like they are entitled to treat you like shit and do whatever they want to. They are cruel and they will not stop until they get bored and they have no more use for you. They're basically just users and they use people up because they have problems that they will always be incapable of dealing with. It's like being caught in a tornado. You will only get out, when they throw you out and by then you'll already have so too much damage.

I've been stalked for a decade and your description of the stalking mindset is spot on. It's easy to 'see' stalkery type behaviour in many people after such a nightmare and one becomes extremely vigilant about everyone's behaviour (indeed the police made it worse by telling me to 'suspect everyone', ludicrously even my own children). But I wouldn't have characterised bitterfight's mother's behaviour as such.

 

[jmni]

@Laura 2
Stalkers text when they are jealous and feel like you are not paying enough attention to them. They are verbally abusive and say really weird cruel things. They don't shut up and they wont give you any peace. All that matters is shooting off their mouths.

I have been stalked by people who I don't know and stalkers can keep their distance. But there's another kind of stalker that storms in and feels entitled to take over and behave as though they have a relationship with you that they do not have. In the case of her mother I think she sounds a bit unstable emotionally and that she may be lonely, that she feels entitled to dictate things in bitterfight_'s life which are not appropriate. So I think that she is projecting this, making her own rules, and just being a big bully in order to enforce this stuff which seems more like it's about her than bitterfight_. She even threatens to slap her and blames it on her. Stalking is technically unwanted persistent contact. Calling her work and her friends and threatening to come find her is crossing the line.

@bitterfight_ You are not the first person to tormented by their parent and you will not be the last. You don't have to live like this. You do not have to live in her home. Maybe it would be better for her too if you were apart.

 

[Hashi]

In response to the "all mothers worry" idea, I have to say that a controlling and manipulative mother with serious mental health issues "worrying" is a different situation from other mothers worrying.

When I was 20, my mother was in no practical sense "more of an adult" than me. Emotionally, she was still an out of control six year old. I was much more like an adult than she was, and that isn't saying much.

If a parent with serious mental health issues is experiencing secondary trauma, they're welcome to get their own therapy for their own issues. As opposed to inflicting their issues on the children who've experienced the primary trauma.

I'm assuming your overall mental health was at an acceptable level, @Laura 2. I'm not sure you're understanding the possible situation of a mother/child relationship where that isn't the case.

 

[bitterfight_]

I've been away for awhile because I've also been recently diagnosed with MDD (TRD) on top of the PTSD, and I'm now in a clinical study on depression and doing intensive therapy. This is going to be a very general response to all of you @Hashi , @jmni , @Laura 2

I was very triggered the other night because of my dad. I came out to go to work with a different makeup on, and I said "do you like it?" and he looked at me, laughed, and said "wow! a miracle worker haha". According to him, he didn't realize this was rude of him to say, and told me he was just kidding. I went to work, overly distraught and triggered (the people who hurt me used to say this kind of shit to me every single day), and I had to literally force my mother to text him to make him apologize to me. He seemed sincere enough, but I can't get it out of my head now. Now I know for sure he thinks I'm hideous, just like my bullies.. I just don't know what to do anymore.

They're (my parents - mostly my mom) constantly doing things that trigger me, and then they refer to my conditions as if they're general (ie: my cousin has GAD and they're always saying things like "she understands exactly what you're going through" when, in reality, she doesn't because she doesn't have PTSD). Sometimes they'll even try to diminish my reactions to things they say.. Like telling me everyone goes through what I go through. Or that I just need to lighten up or go outside to feel better. I just feel so lost. I feel like I don't have a safe place anymore. I've lost my only support (my therapist of 6 mos) because I didn't have the money AND she got blatantly rude with me about this... so I can't talk to literally anyone about my trauma feelings that pop-up regularly. I hardly go out because of my anxiety (or my mother gets angry and says I'm "never home" so I feel bad so I stay home).

When I went for my assessment as well, the psychiatrist kept asking if I ever witnessed any abuse, and kept asking if my mother was controlling or if she has ever hit me. I felt so so bad for lying. I don't know if anyone has ever felt this way before.. but like, I felt like if I said yes about my mom hitting me (she has before, and has justified it by saying I'm "hysterical" and she "doesn't know how to calm me down"). I felt bad about saying no, because that's lying, but I also felt that if I said yes I would feel like a liar because it's only been like, 3 times, and it's always when we're in a fight. It's never been like, a day-to-day thing, so I felt if I said yes I would be saying almost like "yeah my mother is abusive and beats me daily" when that's not true. She can be very loving and caring and I love this side of her. I just constantly feel like I'm walking on eggshells trying not to let the PTSD leak through if you know what I mean. I feel like I constantly have to brush it under the rug. Today I said I felt low (depressed), and my mom literally said "but why?" as if I have a simple explanation given all of the sh*t in my head.

@jmni I have pretty tame friends indeed. We aren't wild children. We don't do drugs, or smoke, or drink excessively. We don't really party either. This girl I'm friends with, we've had a toxic friendship, and I guess my mother is overprotective of that. This girl is pretty toxic to me, but we do try to work things out and maintain a good friendship despite our fights and differences. That being said, my mom is like that with literally everyone I come into contact with. It doesn't matter who it is. If she doesn't like them, then I shouldn't be friends with them, and she makes me feel bad and awkward for being friends with them. I wanted to disagree with everything about what you were saying, until I got to "everything is in their own mind and they will believe what they have decided to believe and act like they are entitled to treat you like shit and do whatever they want to". That's exactly how I was trying to describe it. Especially the "You are already ingrained to "honor" them and believe they are looking out for you for your own good." I definitely feel bound to my mother. Almost woven together by her rules and standards. I know I'm 21, and I don't need to live at home, no, but it is saving me tons of cash to live at home while I'm in university. I don't have the money to move out AND attend university. I can't work the amount of hours to do that while being a full-time student. It's just very conflicting right now.

@Laura 2, yes, I believe that my mother does care about me, but sometimes it's too much. There's a line when it becomes obsessive, especially when she gets verbally angry at me, and threatens to come find me, or to harrass my friends. There's also that line, when I am in flashback mode, or very triggered, and she makes it worse (ie: by threatening to leave me forever, have me locked up in a psych ward, have the police take me away, or by threatening to slap me - the last one she has before).

I just, I guess to sum this up, I don't know who else to be with because of this, and especially because I don't do well in new environments. If I was to move out, which I can't because of my finances and school-wise, I would be even more unstable and it would throw me out of whack. My mother has had issues with her father, and I think it stems from that, but I don't want to throw things even more out of control for myself. As much as they have triggered me, and continue to do so, they are the only support system I have left, and if I lose them... Well.. I won't be able to do this anymore.

 

[Laura 2]

@bitterfight_ One of the awful things I've learned is that people close to us or those who have to become involved by dint of their jobs get so panicked by our distress that they say and do stupid, thoughtless kneejerk things which only end in tears.

The other thing I've learned is that I've have to exercise soooooo much grace and forgiveness towards these people. And they are blissfully unaware of the gifts I've given.