News Terrorist Attack In Paris

[The Albatross]

With all due respect Friday, Syria has had a civil war for 5 years... the migration increased but didn't spike due to genocide or that war. It is in my view more of an economy based migration than humanitarian. Not all migrants are a threat... but the predominance of Sunni Muslim and the fact that other Middle Eastern nations don't want to accept them to me is telling.

 

[The Albatross]

"We often ask where the moderate Muslims are in speaking out against the carnage carried out daily in their faith's name. Every once in a while, we find one.

Imam Yassin el Forkani a youth cleric practicing in Amsterdam, has come out to warn the "thou shalt not blame Islam crowd" saying, "we cannot continue saying that this [terrorism] has nothing to do with Islam."

"The harsh reality is that the attackers theologically legitimize their actions. We can not avoid it. We can not continue saying that this has nothing to do with Islam," El Forkani told the Volkskrant on Saturday.

According to NLTimes, the 32-year-old religious leader, along with a delegation from the Contact Committee Muslims and Government, laid flowers in front of the French embassy in The Hague as a show of respect for the terror victims.

El Forkani has also been active on social media, calling on fellow Muslims to renounce terrorism and take responsibility. In fact, he has even gone so far as to say that Muslims who do not want to speak out against Islamic terrorism are "from another planet."

Of course, he has been met with the usual backlash.

“Do not again end up in useless discussions”, he tweeted, referring to the time following the attack on Charlie Hebdo in January. Then many Muslims reacted indignantly to the call to distance themselves from the violence because they felt that they have nothing to do with the terrorism. But this can no longer be the case, according to El Forkani. “You have to come from another planet to not want to speak out as a Muslim. Through the timing and size, you as Muslim can no longer look away” he said to the newspaper. The young Imam urges the Muslim community to fight against ISIS’ interpretation of the Koran, not only in mosques and educational, but also in smaller circles. “When you as parent talk to your children about faith, or in discussions in tea or coffee houses. ” El Forkani said, adding that claiming that the texts ISIS use do not exist is the wrong strategy. “The texts exist. It is about their interpretation.”

While it can be argued that the ISIS "interpretation" the imam speaks of is in fact the literal one, his efforts to at least acknowledge Islam's base elements and call on fellow Muslims to break their silence is laudable. Unfortunately, a single voice can only carry so far. " via Truth Revolt

 

[Ronin]

Is this islamophobia derail really necessary?

I don't know that your regular Muslim Joe or Jane has any interest in joining the crime, let alone terrorist kind of crime.

And Muslim organizations have been speaking up against extremism days and nights. So have been Jewish ones. So have been interfaith ones. Painting things as a religious-cultural conflict feeds the flames these f*cktwads are so well skilled in using.

 

[Gadgie]

I believe that there are two things that we should never discuss in a open forum, are religion and politics, as they always cause contraversery, even amongst the closest of friends.

 

[Neverthesame]

Honestly I don't think what label these types want to attach to themselves to be relevant.

To be blunt, I don't give a shit. They can call themselves whatever they want to. It does nothing to impact my feelings on the bona-fide religions they claim to be apart of.

None of the many Muslim people I know and work with would strap on an armor hotdog vest then go boom. It's a horrific act, from horrid people. Nothing more. I refuse to give it more power and significance than it already has.

On a similar note, I refuse to call a person who blows up an abortion clinic a Christian. They may claim to be, but having read that book cover to cover. I know there is nothing in there which any rational person could actually argue is justification for an act of hatred or terror.

Being Catholic I am crossing a few lines preaching here. But, the bullet points I took away from the Bible:

• Be respectful of the people in your life.
• Help those who need it.
• Listen to the people around you. Really listen to them, not just hear them. Especially when you don't like what they have to say.
• Treat people the way you want to be treated. Don't be vengeful if they don't reciprocate your kindness.
• Leave the judgments to God. (This is a hard one to do. I am not nearly as good at this as I would like to be).
• Do not steal.
• Do not kill.

I could keep going but I don't think it's necessary.

I am regretfully not at well versed in the Koran. Though from what I have seen in the actions of the people who make up the majority of the ranks of the faithful. The message is seemingly as benign.

I will now respectfully bow out of this thread. With what I had written in my first post.

It's just so sad.

 

[The Albatross]

This is not "Islamophobia" it is a dispute of the facts here in the US with the facts that we have already accepted over a million, and that my own state has accepted a total of 349,501 "lawful" immigrant refugees from 57 countries which doesn't even have anything to do with Islam... it has to do with the fact that my state and likely many others... have already participated to a large degree with resettlement for refugees.

If you're pointing to what I said about the disproportion of Sunni migrants and the fact that I view them as a security risk... I've got a list of facts for that as well... but hey it's easier to name call.

Opinions are running here in the US at a near dead heat.... 53 percent agree with me but surely there's a margin for error so I'll call it 50/50.

 

[Ronin]

If you're pointing to what I said about the disproportion of Sunni migrants and the fact that I view them as a security risk... I've got a list of facts for that as well... but hey it's easier to name call.

Not name-calling at all. We're discussing.

What was said is basically the fact other countries have issue with Sunni migrants is telling. What I'm saying is the problem isn't they're Sunni as the only factor at play, & to not generalize.

I've lived in countries with varied religious situations & state-supported religions and religion was far more a ruse than a real issue faced. Hence the saying let's look at all the other factors than simply religion. Poverty & state wise politics & decimation of own populations are far more complex culprits.

I find this discussion about immigrants in regards to the US specifically hilarious. Excuse me, weren't the States built as a nation of immigrants - colonialist and else? And what precisely happened to the basic human right of movement?

 

[The Albatross]

And what precisely happened to the basic human right of movement?

Of course "we" are a nation of immigrants... that is not in dispute. I am calling for a hold on THIS PARTICULAR resettlement program until issues of national security can be addressed. What's the problem you got with that?

The basic human right? Source please.

 

[Ronin]

I am regretfully not at well versed in the Koran.

The very same message, applicable with specifics as how to settle arguments and resolve social situations through the use of diplomacy. An appeal to not oppress people & help the suffering ones actively, through whichever means necessary in the face of oppression, but then and only then; aka. you make sure to adhere to the laws as stated and updated even when facing terror.

 

[Ronin]

The basic human right? Source please.

I'm referring to basically whole the Universal Declaration of Human Rights & International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and similar documents of international law to which the US is signatory.

It seems to me international law and obligations get hugely left out of the discussions when 'immigrants' are the topic.

 

[The Albatross]

International law under the UN I presume. However being separated from said migration by a rather large ocean and having, as I stated a goodly level of participation already in addition to the illegal migration from Cuba and South America via Mexico... who, so far as I know have not been "resettled" internationally off our own continent... my opinion stands.

 

[The Albatross]

I would go further to say, "Sovereign National border controls are a basic human right." But I am a Statist, Nationalist and a Constitutionalist and I don't give a fig for the UN. My opinion is exactly that... my opinion.