Relationship The really hard choices

[Sweetpea76]

Being on suicide watch is a full time job, and it's not fair to ask a loved one to take on that role. We're not trained for it, and we don't know how to handle it. If he is that suicidal he needs mental health intervention. If it is suicidal ideation, using it for emotional manipulation just sucks.

There is support, but being a martyr to a relationship to the detriment of your own mental health is another thing.

It sounds like he needs to tell his doc that he has been suicidal and that he's having a bad reaction to the meds. If he can't take that initiative, then what are you going to do @Ladyjosephine? All you can do is call the proper authorities if you think he may hurt himself. Other than that, you sit and fret... and make yourself sick waiting to find him afterwards.

 

[Tinyflame]

I really don't understand what is the 'right' thing to do, as a sufferer. I feel that no one should have that burden put on them, and definitely no one should stay in a relationship because of fear of or for the other if they leave. And manipulation is abusive and really badly mentally ill. But on the other hand as @Sietz said they say we're supposed to reach out, or not hide it or lie. I can only pre-suppose that could mean to speak anonymously or to a professional only, which is appropriate as they are specifically trained, which I understand, but also not always an option. But in another way, flipping it, if it's my loved one I'd prefer they'd tell me. I think I'd find it more worrisome if I found out they didn't. But I might have missed something (or much) because I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts.

I'm not sure if the training is as important as feeling you have someone in your corner (provided you know and accept the onus is your own).

 

[Sweetpea76]

Here's the rub.... suicidal ideation. Supporters tend to have to listen to lots and lots of suicidal ideation. How do we know if it's ideation or somebody is actively suicidal? We don't.

We don't know what's going on in our sufferer's head, so it tends to freak us out every time. They may know they're not really going to kill themselves, but if they're talking about wanting to die all night, we can't help but to think it's a suicide threat. What if we treat it as ideation and then they really do end up killing themselves? Intentionally or not they have laid the responsibility for not doing anything right at our feet. We'd feel it was our fault forever. What if we took action and called the authorities because we were scared for their life? Then we've blown things out of proportion and betrayed trust. We all know what happens if a PTSD sufferer feels like you've betrayed their trust, if they even trusted you in the first place.

So what ends up happening 9 times out of 10 is that you're up all night on suicide watch with your guts eating themselves. You call in sick to work, leave work early, or totally f*ck up at work. You spend the next few days hoping that every door you open doesn't have your partner's dead body behind it. You constantly think of ways to clear the place of things they can harm themselves with, then you realize that they could harm themselves with a whole lot of things in a house and there is no way you can get rid of them all. You fret yourself sick.

Do this twice. Ten times. Twenty times... it sucks all the empathy right out of you, because that's what needs to happen for you not to mentally break down yourself. This shit is for the birds from the supporter side of the road. I don't blame a soul for leaving this kind of situation for their own mental health.

If we have no say in treatment or how our partners deal with their PTSD, how is it that we have the responsibility to be the suicide watch patrol when they won't help themselves?

 

[ILoveLife]

responsibility to be the suicide watch patrol when they won't help themselves?

Responsibility is not the same as support. Please don't mix the two.

Have you been desperate trying treatments that either don't work or it seems you just hit walls? It's not like we give up easily.

But ditching someone on their lowest moments is inhuman. Colloquially speaking.

I've been on both ends and it sucks both ways. Is not anybody's fault, but I sure as hell don't want the weight on my shoulders of a loved one's death, if I can help the person get help.
Its not black and white, responsibility or total absence. There are middle roads.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Sweetpea76 , I think I understand better. I was speaking more from a place of a sufferer speaking 'about' their SI (with intent to manage) than during a symptomatic -for lack of a better term- desperate delivery.

So what ends up happening 9 times out of 10 is that you're up all night on suicide watch with your guts eating themselves. You call in sick to work, leave work early, or totally f*ck up at work. You spend the next few days hoping that every door you open doesn't have your partner's dead body behind it. You constantly think of ways to clear the place of things they can harm themselves with, then you realize that they could harm themselves with a whole lot of things in a house and there is no way you can get rid of them all. You fret yourself sick.

^^^ Yes I have gone through this several times as a supporter and feel the same.

If we have no say in treatment or how our partners deal with their PTSD, how is it that we have the responsibility to be the suicide watch patrol when they won't help themselves?

^^ You don't have that responsibility. And you most certainly, at non-symptomatic times, have the right (if not self-obligation) of saying 'when you say such and such I feel (x) and it impacts on me in (these) ways, and I cannot bear that. What do you want me to do in the future? This is what I will do in the future'. That is where I believe brutal honesty is more than acceptable. If your SO is healthy enough and has sentiment they will realize they have to find a different way.

Supporters tend to have to listen to lots and lots of suicidal ideation

As a sufferer, I can only relate to that, in the earlier (1st 10-15 years or so) of dealing with ptsd (in terms of expressing SI in some way). Whereas now (other than here), I see my own SI as my own problem, and am aware of the impact such talk could have on anyone. It was really that awareness of potential impact or impact of suicide that made me (privately) originally look for ways to deal with what I thought was depression; and realized later was the tip of the ice berg (in managing). (Just me though).

 

[Tinyflame]

I understand where @Sietz is coming from too. I never saught to support anyone this way, but I sure hope not to abandon them in what is very likely at least in great part an illness, definitely a struggle.

And I sure as heck am thankful when I wasn't given up on, because on my own I had no resources or support. Even a kind word or some tolerance or forgiveness means a lot.

A lot of pushing others away is to reduce guilt and to make one's self worth or life nothing to others. For me, anyway. Same with leaving.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Responsibility is not the same as support. Please don't mix the two.

I sure as hell don't want the weight on my shoulders of a loved one's death

This is the point I'm trying to make... when somebody comes to you with SI or talk of suicide they make you responsible.

Not only because it's a life and death situation, but because of this:

But ditching someone on their lowest moments is inhuman.

It's not fair to make somebody responsible for whether you live or die at your own hands. And when it happens repeatedly sometimes people have to walk away to save their own sanity.

 

[EveHarrington]

Just sharing....

My ex thought I was threatening suicide when I wasn’t.

“I just want to sleep and not deal with this!” (Context: I was exhausted and we were fighting.)

“I can’t do this!” (Context: struggling with therapy.)

There was NO suicidal undertone in what I said. I was never suicidal around him, not for the entire duration of our relationship.

Now mind you I had NEVER threatened suicide to him directly or indirectly. I had an attempt months before I even met him but wasn’t suicidal in the least when I was with him. He kept pawning me off on suicide lines when I wasn’t suicidal, wasn’t threatening suicide, wasn’t harming myself, NADA!

His mind just automatically went to suicide-ville because yeah, all of us with PTSD are suicidal 24/7.

The guy couldn’t handle my past or trust that I wasn’t suicidal around him, simply because I had a suicidal past.

I don’t know where the hell I was going with this.

Oh yeah!

I think it takes a lot to be a supporter. If a sufferer actually IS suicidal, by all means contact everyone you can, boundaries be damned. (It’s better they be alive and hate you, right? Well, better than the alternative!) If you cannot handle things, it’s ok to walk away, but please contact the doctor, the therapist, the family, and even the police if you have to. Send a wellness check!

But if it’s just General ptsd whining..... I can’t do this! (Vague, right?) Or I want to sleep! (Sometimes people do just want to sleep!).....Make sure you get clarification about what they’re actually saying before calling in the big guns.

Not meaning to start anything as I know it’s difficult on both sides, just sharing my experience! :hug:

 

[shimmerz]

Being on suicide watch is a full time job, and it's not fair to ask a loved one to take on that role. We're not trained for it, and we don't know how to handle it. If he is that suicidal he needs mental health intervention. If it is suicidal ideation, using it for emotional manipulation just sucks.

Yeah, and if you make it through this and decide to continue supporting him then I would suggest you sit him down (when he is well) and let him know that you guys either have to figure out a plan if this were to happen again that you both agree on or you will make the plan if he won't participate. If you alone make the plan state it afterwards. 'If I fear you are serious when you say you want to kill yourself then no questons asked I am going to call the hospital'.

Recap what happened this time; times previous; and let him know that it has to change.figure out a detailed plan. Draw lines in the sand for yourself at this time is my suggestion.

 

[ILoveLife]

when it happens repeatedly sometimes people have to walk away to save their own sanity

I understand what you're saying and agree.

I never ask anyone for help or say when I'm actively suicidal. That almost killed me years ago. Now I call pdoc.
But I've been on a situation of trying to help a friend and having to say I couldn't do it anymore. I feel guilty over turning my back.

Double edge sword, it's what I'm saying.

 

[blackemerald1]

where they had him come off these meds and for the two weeks he was off them, he was smiling and laughing and eating and going places and things were really looking up. Once he got in with his doctor and was put back on the meds, he didn’t get out of bed for two days. Since then, he has done nothing but push me away.

This^^ sounds like adverse reactions to meds bc it it causing drastic behavioural changes which are not in the right direction. He needs to tell his pdoc and probably come off those meds again.

Medication is not the only treatment. Has he been offered ongoing therapy and other non medication therapy? Does he know what else is out there?

I’m in my last semester of grad school and working and I’m exhausted. I have spent so much time and effort to get myself set up for my career and now I’m faced not only with this now in the home stretch, but the possibility of a future with someone who has given up.

I don't find fault with what you are describing at all. You are responsible for your life and you need to fulfil your potential. You cannot forfeit everything you have striven for and worked so hard for because of a relationship.

He really needs to take responsibility for his own care. Yes you can support him if that is what you and he wants. But not under threat (whether he says it or not) that if you do not he will suicide. Nobody should be asking this of you or even hinting at it.

At what point do I draw the line if he refuses to try and help himself?

Now. If that is what he has said. Time to back off and move on. Nobody can force him to help himself...not even you. Love or not.

If he is not just verbalising frustration and he really means it. Then move on. I know this sounds harsh but he has got to find a reason to get better or try and get better. You cannot be the only reason for him to stay alive. And if you are then what an incredibly difficult position you are in. I would not want that responsibility. This is a serious mental illness. He needs ongoing professional support and monitoring aside from support.

No wonder you are exhausted. :hug:

 

[Justmehere]

If you are in it waiting for him to change or based on the hope things will change... you’ll end up frustrated.

If he’s not willing to contact crisis support services and engage in treatment himself, there isn’t much you can do.

It’s not helpful to him to be his suicide watch therapist. If at any time you are concerned about him being a danger to himself, call a crisis line and they can help evaluate what to do. Let the professionals step in.

That all being said, you are finishing up your grad degree. Focus on that, take a deep breath, then figure out what to do. This is a high stress time for you too. Take whatever space you need to get through.