The Sudden End

[Suzetig]

But I think having a relationship with a parental figure is great long term, just as many adults do- while the needs and relationship change, it's still good for adults to have parental figures in their lives when those are healthy relationships.

I agree with this, one of the things I really struggle with is a lack of parenting figures throughout my life but certainly as an adult I miss having the adult support that others have so readily. I don't think a therapist can truly be that figure though because there are limits to their involvement and availability and boundaries that need to be held for the relationship to be therapeutic. I think they can teach us how to accept that from other people and how to be in that kind of relationship with another adult, a training ground I guess for life outside the therapy room.

 

[Leah123]

We've disagreed on this the entire 3.5 years, it hasn't been an issue. Like you said- yes, it's more not being heard. The belief is only an issue now because she disrespected me (and she felt I judged her) and because she lost track of the real issue was that we talked about my beliefs to help me... and she didn't enable that, she didn't....see the good in it, she felt provoked and went down that path. Not conducive and... I just feel like... I've been coming up against her limits and... I have made a lot of progress... so I don't want it to end, but... might be end of the line.

 

[Pencil]

I am yeah.... weary, drained, numb, cried out, in shock. I told my husband what happened, he said she was being unprofessional and defensive. It's not the first time we've had that problem, but... this time was worse, and.... she was the greatest comfort ever in my life, but... our therapy didn't work today, and there are lots of times it feels unproductive or lacking certain things, but... it wasn't lacking gentleness and love and compassion and inspiration and emotional holding and caring. Oh my.

I agree with your husband.

And: You've been here before. She has said and done things that seemed unforgivable or un-get-over-able before - and yet you sorted it out. So, at this point it can go either way from what I gather. You can patch things up .. yada yada, but this is not really the point....

... I'm going to stick my neck out here, and I may be horribly wrong, and if so, you have my permission to slap me. Here goes: This relationship seems, from what I hear you say, to have an abusive flavour.

 

[Leah123]

I agree with your husband.

And: You've been here before. She has said and done things that seemed u...

Ha, Pencil, I'd never slap you, I know you speak in good faith. :) I don't feel it's abusive, but I have experienced a number of moments... infrequently but some over the years where she definitely seemed defensive and reactive in a way that caused setbacks. Then again, there were also unusual wins in this relationship so... it was worth it to deal with those things and she did apologize when mis-stepping and being reactive but yeah.... I feel stuck right now for sure.

 

[Pencil]

Okay, so you've always managed to sort things out. When you started posting here a few years ago she made a comment about your father you thought you would NEVER get over, and yet you did because she made amends. So, I think it will happen again. Both of you are heavily invested in this relationship (and some might say she is way too invested, but that is another issue), and I don't see her just throwing it all overboard. Honestly and obectively: what do you think she is thinking and feeling right now?

 

[Leah123]

Yes, she did make a comment about my father being in bed with my husband and I, and it was HORRIBLY triggering. I felt.... like I'd had the wind knocked out of me and a bomb planted inside simultaneously. It was very disturbing given my history and probably deeply insensitive. That was early in our relationship... maybe a few months in, as I was just starting to talk about abuse.

I realized in that case... what she said wasn't helpful- but the real harm came from being abused and having a trigger. That's what got me and dragged me under. So... working through it, which took a lot of painful time... I got to a place of some peace with that. You're right- that was a doozy. I remember it well now that you mentioned it.

In this case.... if she was contrite- if she read what I shared about the science behind her accusation and if she REALIZED that we shouldn't engage in this type of defensiveness but that she should ask herself, where are we going, how can I help.... then... that would help. If she realized she was undermining my family when i was in a dark place and needed a lift, not a debate... sigh.

She told me, once, in the wake of that awful comment I think- that she'd thought deeply about what happened, and realized suddenly one night that it must have felt to me like she switched teams on me in a football game and instead of backing me up, became a quarterback tackling me w/no warning. And that rang so true that I finally forgave her... because she GOT the betrayal. That... in vulnerable times... you can hurt someone without meaning, that you can blunder on the operating table and cause awful pain though you do not mean it. She...I don't know... I felt.... better. And now I don't. I don't see that type of examination from her, it's more shallow and she's not getting it.

 

[Leah123]

"what do you think she is thinking and feeling right now?"

Forgot to answer that.

Well, she wrote me a letter earlier detailing her beliefs and where she got them, and that when she told me judgment would be the end of spirituality that it was based on her years of study and was very important to her, and she didn't take kindly to me judging her. Sigh. She also apologized for saying things that "sounded" reactive, but that she meant to challenge me in a good way I guess. (Terrible timing though- I mean... there's a time and place, and she was wayyyy of track.)

Right now... I think... she's bothered at the idea of our relationship ending. I figure she's invested in me.
I guess she was thinking of what to do because she wrote this morning I was always welcome back and later an essay about her beliefs...so... I dunno really what's going on for her now. :( I'm just low.

 

[Pencil]

It's because you are arguing about an idea or theory or ideology or ... something - the way people argue about politics or religion. And that is just stupid. She doesn't have to agree with you, and she should know it. And she is completely missing how you are feeling about the argument. So the primary issue is the idea - and your disagreement; the secondary issue is your emotional response to the argument. And while you are reeling under the emotions, she is still stuck on what she perceives to be her valid points regarding the idea - But it seems to follow the same pattern. And I get the impression she needs time to get to the point of seeing that you've moved on from the 'issue' to a reaction to the issue, and to catch up with you.

My guess is that she is as upset as you are. (And once again; for her to get so entangled is not ideal, but it has its advantages.)

Edited to add: we cross-posted.

 

[Leah123]

Yes, it was never the issue for me. I mean sure I care about my belief, but we were talking about it not to annoy her or upset or challenge her, though she felt that way after she asked if our differences bothered her, but we were talking about it because I needed an area where I felt good about myself, where I felt I was at my most authentic, and a couple items that came up because of that.

I want her to be purpose driven, help me get to a place of calm and clarity...but I don't feel she can stay purpose driven... she flits about, she is not disciplined.

 

[Pencil]

she is not disciplined

Do you need her to be? Or do you need her to care?

 

[Leah123]

I agree- we shouldn't argue about politics/religion/beliefs. And I think that's part of what got me- that as I was *talking* about mine, she interjected telling me not to be judgemental, and before I knew it... she was debating me. :(

 

[Leah123]

Do you need her to be? Or do you need her to care?

I could use help with discipline and we'd do better if she would help me with accountability in certain things, but I've settled for her being caring, yes, it's been worth it along with her other gifts like creativity, humor, availability, experience, warmth and teaching me things like to prioritize self-care.