Milo's papa
Gold Member
I would say it's time to find a new T. She's putting him in a very unhealthy position telling him that therapy is pointless if he can't forgive his abusers.
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Relationship Therapist: You Have To Forgive Your Abuser
- Post starter Allison_ptsd spouse
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This isn't just a BS bad idea. Depending on the person he is meant to be forgiving, this could be insanely dangerous to his mental health. Inviting abusers back into ones life is just an all around BAD idea.
Milo's papa
Gold Member
I couldn't agree with you more. Abusers can only do more harm, if given the chance. My mother-in-law is a perfect example. Long before my wife's suppressed memories resurfaced my wife remembered how her mother used to treat her. After our son was born my wife let her guilt gland get to her and allowed her mother into our lives. That didn't last long before her mother's same old abusive patterns started to re-emerge.. Now all contact with that person,( and I use the term lightly) has been severed. Abusers have no right to expect anything less.
Neverthesame
Diamond Member
I am not here from abuse, but instead from the poor decision of a drink driver.
When I started therapy I was in a poor mental state. I had not been able to separate the individual from the profession they were in.
I painted a distorted view in my mind that all people who drove heavy goods vehicles, were all uneducated drunken losers. Hell bent on killing everyone around them.
I had to learn to forgive the regular ordinary people who chose that profession. Because I couldn't live my life, carrying that anger towards so many people who don't deserve it.
That forgiveness was therapeutic for me.
My feelings for the specific person who caused all of this for me. No. I will never forgive him. EVER!
As @Lucycat had said it would feel like condoning the crime to me as well.
In the interest of not getting myself off track here. Therapy is very much individual, what works for me, may not work for all.
If forgiveness is important for him to move forward with his recovery then that's what he should do. If not then he shouldn't. The therapist should be encouraging him to help himself, not holding his recovery hostage unless he follows the therapist's idea of morality.
Edit: good god this phone is driving me crazy. That's the second time today this bloody thing has caused me to hit post on accident. I didn't even realise it until I turned it on to finish this post.
When I started therapy I was in a poor mental state. I had not been able to separate the individual from the profession they were in.
I painted a distorted view in my mind that all people who drove heavy goods vehicles, were all uneducated drunken losers. Hell bent on killing everyone around them.
I had to learn to forgive the regular ordinary people who chose that profession. Because I couldn't live my life, carrying that anger towards so many people who don't deserve it.
That forgiveness was therapeutic for me.
My feelings for the specific person who caused all of this for me. No. I will never forgive him. EVER!
As @Lucycat had said it would feel like condoning the crime to me as well.
In the interest of not getting myself off track here. Therapy is very much individual, what works for me, may not work for all.
If forgiveness is important for him to move forward with his recovery then that's what he should do. If not then he shouldn't. The therapist should be encouraging him to help himself, not holding his recovery hostage unless he follows the therapist's idea of morality.
Edit: good god this phone is driving me crazy. That's the second time today this bloody thing has caused me to hit post on accident. I didn't even realise it until I turned it on to finish this post.
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^^ Or health, or life, as a whole. Yep, this.
Enabling abuse basically isn't alright. It's a different thing to make suggestions as to what else could maaybe work better for the person, leaving it up to their consideration... different thing altogether to state opinions categorically as a law let alone attempt to force others to accept a certain point of view.
ms spock
VIP Member
These are what I call the "Dangerous Unresolved Therapists" they are people who have found something that worked for them and then expect everyone else to have the same recovery journey as they have been on. Sometimes it is shoving a religious thing down someone else's throat as in forgiveness - the Royal Commission into Instituational Responses to Child Sexual Abuse demonstrates clearly that continuing to "forgive" sexual predators did not work out so well for the children they abused and actually enabled to continue on with their sexual abusive behaviours for decades.
It is often a way of some "Dangerous, Unresolved Therapists" to outsource their own anxiety - they try to get their clients to do a recovery process that they haven't had the courage to undertake themselves - where the extreme danger lies when people are therapists before they have resolved a significant amount of their own issues. I suffered badly at the hands of people like this and it did destroy my life for two decades but they got hold of me when I was 15.
Then there is the Narcissistic Therapist who thinks because they had the same trauma as the client that they know what they wanted to hear, and they say those things that they wish their parents/carers had said to them. And they punish the client from deviating from the healing path they "should" be on.
It is dangerous to think just because you have done a small amount of the recovery journey that you know what any one else with a similar trauma needs and requires to recover.
Then there are the therapists who do therapy with clients and they are getting their needs meet in being the "expert" or the "important one" and that is not helpful for clients either.
When people tell me that they knew exactly what a client needed to hear because they knew how s/he felt. That they gave that to him/her and they said just what s/he needed to hear. Not only did it comfort the client, but they felt better too. My blood runs cold. Because that is about the therapists needs and not the client's recovery. Often in these cases then client doesn't appreciate the therapist enough by following their advice and then they see these people as being treatment resistent, when it is about their unresolved issues. Punishing or taking a client to task for not doing exactly what you think they should be doing is a form of abuse. Threatening to abandon a client because of this is a pathological inner dynamic within the therapist that has nothing to do with the client and everything to do with the re enacting of trauma/abuse/dysfunction of the therapist.
This is why becoming a therapist after your own healing is often not a good idea. I have met people who have been psychologists and psychotherapists in our chat room whilst they have been having a melt down and the ways they have spoken about their clients seems to me to be unprofessional and not helpful. I fear that the damage they did to their clients was significant.
A client might need and want different things from what the therapist wanted/needed in their childhood/trauma situation/therapy. There needs to be some boundaries there - which there are often not.
So if a therapist has the ability to meet his/her needs and takes care of him/herself, then s/he is full again, and s/he can then sit and listen and then learn work out what his/her client actually needs and wants, rather than acting out their own inner dynamics on the client.
Therapists should also have ongoing paid supervision sessions with a reputable certified professional that challenges them to deal with their own issues and not act out their stuff on their clients.
Trust your instincts @Allison_ptsd spouse!
It is often a way of some "Dangerous, Unresolved Therapists" to outsource their own anxiety - they try to get their clients to do a recovery process that they haven't had the courage to undertake themselves - where the extreme danger lies when people are therapists before they have resolved a significant amount of their own issues. I suffered badly at the hands of people like this and it did destroy my life for two decades but they got hold of me when I was 15.
Then there is the Narcissistic Therapist who thinks because they had the same trauma as the client that they know what they wanted to hear, and they say those things that they wish their parents/carers had said to them. And they punish the client from deviating from the healing path they "should" be on.
It is dangerous to think just because you have done a small amount of the recovery journey that you know what any one else with a similar trauma needs and requires to recover.
Then there are the therapists who do therapy with clients and they are getting their needs meet in being the "expert" or the "important one" and that is not helpful for clients either.
When people tell me that they knew exactly what a client needed to hear because they knew how s/he felt. That they gave that to him/her and they said just what s/he needed to hear. Not only did it comfort the client, but they felt better too. My blood runs cold. Because that is about the therapists needs and not the client's recovery. Often in these cases then client doesn't appreciate the therapist enough by following their advice and then they see these people as being treatment resistent, when it is about their unresolved issues. Punishing or taking a client to task for not doing exactly what you think they should be doing is a form of abuse. Threatening to abandon a client because of this is a pathological inner dynamic within the therapist that has nothing to do with the client and everything to do with the re enacting of trauma/abuse/dysfunction of the therapist.
This is why becoming a therapist after your own healing is often not a good idea. I have met people who have been psychologists and psychotherapists in our chat room whilst they have been having a melt down and the ways they have spoken about their clients seems to me to be unprofessional and not helpful. I fear that the damage they did to their clients was significant.
A client might need and want different things from what the therapist wanted/needed in their childhood/trauma situation/therapy. There needs to be some boundaries there - which there are often not.
So if a therapist has the ability to meet his/her needs and takes care of him/herself, then s/he is full again, and s/he can then sit and listen and then learn work out what his/her client actually needs and wants, rather than acting out their own inner dynamics on the client.
Therapists should also have ongoing paid supervision sessions with a reputable certified professional that challenges them to deal with their own issues and not act out their stuff on their clients.
Trust your instincts @Allison_ptsd spouse!
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rightkindofme
Diamond Member
Therapy is about finding a trained professional to help you on the journey you are on through your individual life. Some journey's involve forgiveness and some don't. Whatever is right for the individual is right. It is completely unprofessional and wrong to make ultimatums as a therapist.
It isn't the therapist's life.
We all have to wake up and look in the mirror and deal with what we see. I need to forgive myself. I don't need to forgive any of the people who hurt me. If I get to that point organically at some point, awesome. But it isn't necessary or mandatory. I only need to forgive myself so that I can try to change and do better.
It doesn't actually matter if I repair that damage.
If my life were different, maybe it would matter.
But... that's the kind of thing that can only be judged by the person living the life.
I'm on my 21st therapist. Fire this one and move on. They are professionals there to help you. If they suck; move on. It is hard when you don't have many options available where you live. But if you ask around about sliding scale stuff, you can often find people who are willing to see you super cheap with no insurance at all. Many periods of my life I had people who were willing to take $10/hour because... because they were just nice people who did pro bono work for people who needed help.
It's worth looking around and beating the bushes to see who pops out. I've like 5/6 of my last therapists very much. I lose them through life transitions not through a desire to cease care. So it's worth the search.
It isn't the therapist's life.
We all have to wake up and look in the mirror and deal with what we see. I need to forgive myself. I don't need to forgive any of the people who hurt me. If I get to that point organically at some point, awesome. But it isn't necessary or mandatory. I only need to forgive myself so that I can try to change and do better.
It doesn't actually matter if I repair that damage.
If my life were different, maybe it would matter.
But... that's the kind of thing that can only be judged by the person living the life.
I'm on my 21st therapist. Fire this one and move on. They are professionals there to help you. If they suck; move on. It is hard when you don't have many options available where you live. But if you ask around about sliding scale stuff, you can often find people who are willing to see you super cheap with no insurance at all. Many periods of my life I had people who were willing to take $10/hour because... because they were just nice people who did pro bono work for people who needed help.
It's worth looking around and beating the bushes to see who pops out. I've like 5/6 of my last therapists very much. I lose them through life transitions not through a desire to cease care. So it's worth the search.
The fact that this T. is trying to FORCE anyone to forgive, tells you everything you need to know.
No quality T. would EVER use ultimatums, pressure, or coercion on a patient.......PERIOD.
This T. has violated his/her most sacred ethic...and in my view, he/she should fired and reported to her/his professional body.
Incompetent T.'s do exist and they do harm people.
May you both find what you truly need.:hug:
I_will_recover
Bronze Member
My therapist and my rape crisis counselor both told me forgiveness is not necessary and not for everyone. I'm of the personal belief that forgiveness has to be earned. No one was asked to forgive Jeffrey Dahmer. He was a murderer of people my abuser murdered my soul. I don't forgive psychopaths.
I_will_recover
Bronze Member
It's taken me a while to post to this form because the idea of being asked to forgive is so upsetting and such BS. The title of therapist or doctor doesn't make someone right. There are plenty who aren't good or helpful.
I'm glad you are here and that you have posted your thoughts.:happy:
The idea that anyone MUST forgive is 100% BULLSH*T:poop:!!!
It is a BELIEF(and only a belief) that forgiveness is essential....it is NOT a FACT.
a warmest welcome to you:hug::hug::hug::hug::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:
Milo's papa
Gold Member
@void, I couldn't agree with you more. And you said it so elegantly. (lLOL)
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