tofubreadcoriander
Confident
NARM Training Institute published it's latest podcast episode. The guest argues that therapy for C-PTSD requires a longer timeframe regarding treatment. Do you agree or disagree?
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Therapy for C-PTSD requires a longer timeframe regarding treatment. Do you agree or disagree?
- Thread starter tofubreadcoriander
- Start date
_-yeah_nah-_
Sponsor
Yeh.. I call bullshit, You can't put a timeline on cPTSD + c/trauma recovery.
Every trauma is different, while every person is also different. People can go through the same experience physically, yet it effects them completely differently.
Everyone needs to run their own path. Hopefully, they get there.
For me I have cPTSD-SP with severe panic attacks + anxiety + depression, therapy been going on for years and likely will continue with no end date.
If it were me and one of my therapists said that they could push me into a time frame to be recovered by, I'd be getting a new therapist.
Every trauma is different, while every person is also different. People can go through the same experience physically, yet it effects them completely differently.
Everyone needs to run their own path. Hopefully, they get there.
For me I have cPTSD-SP with severe panic attacks + anxiety + depression, therapy been going on for years and likely will continue with no end date.
If it were me and one of my therapists said that they could push me into a time frame to be recovered by, I'd be getting a new therapist.
silverlinings1069
Learning
Shouldn't we take into consideration the person getting the therapy? Why do we need to label or time everything? What works for one may not work for another. Everyone is different. Putting a timeline on therapy may help but maybe not. And, my two cents, therapists do not work more often for an end date for those in therapy because (I am very cynical)...the money. In America, the therapists I have encounter (my new one as well) are about the money. If they work towards an end date, they will lose that money so getting us "healthy" in the USA is not the main focus. I have never really encountered a mental health care professional that wanted to truly get me healthy. Everyone is different. Everyone has different traumas and experiences. It takes as long as it will take. It is less about the time but about the quality of the therapy, IMHO. I realize, also, that I play devil's advocate a lot. I say this knowing it may not be well received but it does effect the length of therapy, at least in America. And the quality. Maybe professionals should focus more on the quality of care we receive rather than telling us we need it for a long time. We, ourselves, should set milestone markers to see if anything is improving, changing, evolving rather than leave it in the hands of the professional. They are human and make mistakes as well. Thank you for posting this. This has given me a lot to contemplate for my upcoming therapy.
Friday
Moderator
Why?
Put 1,000,000 or a 1,000,000,000 people wih XYZ in a room and 80% will be near identical, 15% of the remainders half and half identical to the rest but with some quirky pieces, & 5% outliers to the rest.
Whether you’re talking appendicitis or psych or meds or whatever.
Outliers are useful for both niche disciplines & general understanding. Peanuts aren’t poisonous for all people. Even though? Some people ARE deathly allergic to peanuts. Or dairy. Or bees. Or whatever.
Better understanding the whole, doesn’t mean that wheels are not useful. Even if skis are better in snow.
you could say the same for male v female.
Looking INTO the differences? Rather than dismissing them? Or determined to avoid commonalities. Is useful/ necessary.
Charbella
Sponsor
Is this fact?
I’ve never heard this statistic. So I’m genuinely interested. If it’s true I’m wondering why everyone I know seems to be an outlier. For instance I needed my tonsils removed as an adult having never had strep. My tonsils were abnormally large. My dad is a diabetic dependent on insulin though he didn’t get it until he was 35, plus his blood sugar would drop without warning and after medical personnel gave him IV glucose his blood sugar would sometimes come up and drop within 15 minutes. My aunt is in her late 70s, broke several vertebrae and had many fusions. She’s healed it’s been just a couple months and she’s back to swimming, hiking, biking. The doctors felt sure 6 months she’d be able to return to light duty. I could go on. The more you learn about the human body the more one would see they aren’t alike. Even “normal” temp used to be 98.7 until COVID came along and everyone was being tested and then suddenly they’re reevaluating it.
I can agree that some treatments might be the gold standard but 80% seems high, especially given in PTSD treatment many patients don’t seek any and die by suicide or start treatment and give up on it which I sure hope means they don’t say oh well your part of the 5% of the PTSD population that is an outlier.
When dealing with living things I’d say statistics…lie. Studies are done on a small population of people who fit minute parameters, not the general population. They aren’t even taken from 500,000 people let alone a million or billion and they’d have to be people who still fit very narrow parameters, not humans with many things effecting them. For instance a diabetes study generally won’t take someone with other major issues. So are only diabetics with no other major issues considered in a possible 80% statistic? That seems odd considering how many complications most diabetics suffer.
I’m going to agree with @silverlinings1069 that we should take into account the human being.
Friday
Moderator
Nope!
Statistics.And I f*cked it up because
A) I didn’t make that clear.
B) I didn’t make clear that I was attempting to describe a statistical model, instead of the stats themselves
C) If it were a short answer pop quiz for…
“Why do we not have to test/poll/query 7.8 billion people, but can instead use a relatively to extremely small sample size, to very accurately predictable what will happen when ABC XYZ?”
I’d have gotten a D minus. :/
Or… more on target.., “Why do we not have to design an entirely new mode of transportation, therapeutic modality, or meal for each of the 7.8 billion people on the planet?”
Because most/some/few.
Everyone you know is almost undoubtedly an outlier… in hundreds, if not thousands of ways. And smack dab in the center of hundreds of thousands of others.
For example? It is extremely rare in some countries, to be killed whilst crossing the street. Every single time you successfully cross the street and don’t die, in one of those counties? You are smack dab in the middle of the statistic that says so. But? That doesn’t mean that you are not an outlier in thousands of other ways.
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At the core of an evidence base is the method used to measure the evidence.
Measuring quantity is suited to larger scale studies and is less time consuming. Success is often measured with tick boxes and scales. It also uses statistical/numerical language that appeals to people involved in selling or financing treatments.
Measuring quality is time consuming per study subject so qualitative studies tend to have a smaller number of subjects. They also work in analytical suppositions rather than statistical data and they can look at subject experience in greater depth than tick boxes can. However common experiences are less appealing to people involved in selling or financing treatments than numerical data.
In terms of therapy models, shorter term therapies lend themselves better to measuring quantity - at the end of 12 sessions of CBT you can tick a box to say you can manage symptoms better. My personal opinion of CBT (although it seems to suit other people) is that it is like giving a person with a broken leg crutches - they can manage to move around their life better, but their leg is still broken.
For me, I accept that the crutches are necessary to get symptoms under control, but longer term therapy is necessary to improve quality of life.
Measuring quantity is suited to larger scale studies and is less time consuming. Success is often measured with tick boxes and scales. It also uses statistical/numerical language that appeals to people involved in selling or financing treatments.
Measuring quality is time consuming per study subject so qualitative studies tend to have a smaller number of subjects. They also work in analytical suppositions rather than statistical data and they can look at subject experience in greater depth than tick boxes can. However common experiences are less appealing to people involved in selling or financing treatments than numerical data.
In terms of therapy models, shorter term therapies lend themselves better to measuring quantity - at the end of 12 sessions of CBT you can tick a box to say you can manage symptoms better. My personal opinion of CBT (although it seems to suit other people) is that it is like giving a person with a broken leg crutches - they can manage to move around their life better, but their leg is still broken.
For me, I accept that the crutches are necessary to get symptoms under control, but longer term therapy is necessary to improve quality of life.
Freddyt
Sponsor
Just did some stuff around all this in therapy yesterday.
There's a famous book about how the body keeps score. In complex trauma - its not just the mind that needs to heal from trauma - the body does too. Unlike simple trauma you do not recognize the threat has ended. To your mind, to your body, its still going on.
So if my my case, that trauma has been going on in my mind and body for about 47 years - it may take a while longer to heal than a boom and done simple trauma.
There's a famous book about how the body keeps score. In complex trauma - its not just the mind that needs to heal from trauma - the body does too. Unlike simple trauma you do not recognize the threat has ended. To your mind, to your body, its still going on.
So if my my case, that trauma has been going on in my mind and body for about 47 years - it may take a while longer to heal than a boom and done simple trauma.