trauma programs more trauma, and resolving it with ego dissolution

[maryiscontrary]

Okay, so I think I’m starting to get what you’re saying. I think you’ve said that you’ve used ayahuasca in the past and experienced some short term benefits from that viz your symptoms?

This article on using psychadelics might interest you, insofar as it talks about people who, having experienced ‘ego death’ through use of that class of drugs, oftentimes decide that ego death is something worth pursuing in and of itself. There’s brief reference to some of the issues you might encounter there:
Tripping to achieve ego death

Personally I like Vice as a source of info, but they are by no means agenda-free or politically unalligned.

The Ayahuasca in the San Pedro we're just sort of the beginning of it. along with hanging out with the indigenous, it's like I got a good taste of the relief. But I still had this discomfort deep inside of me, and was still plagued buy a boat load of terrible symptoms. But it got me out of the complete basket case mode.

I don't know if this is cause and effect, or if it was just ready to crack, but doing the third and fourth step of the 12 steps led to a breakthrough. Or vice versa. Maybe I just really got sick of feeling like this, feeling like bad luck and people's hatefulness we're following me like the plague, feeling like a victim, which I am, but I don't like that feeling. Being pissed off at myself for not being able to enjoy a nice day due to the flashbacks and dissociation. with all the shity thanks, there are some nice days, but when I was to dissociated and full of flashbacks to enjoy, I realize that I was living in illusion.
Since we already live in a simulated reality, probably powered by Quantum Computing from some Mega black hole, adding a layer of Illusion on top of that in the form of dissociation and flashbacks really bothered me.
That is why this old ego is going. To the trash. Another addiction that it seems has dissolved is binge eating. I'm not just talkin chocolate and sweets, I noticed that I am not overeating at all. and I used to really the eating disordered, just like the rest of my family.
I am hoping to God that this sticks. And I will be offering updates for this experiment of mine

 

[Starfire]

Have read some of those holographic papers. Find them fascinating probably cuz they're *star trekkie*! Can't really comment on your misfortunes or say there is, could of been a fix. In my life I learned that organizing everything out there didn't really benefit me. When my house was immaculate, kids perfect, holidays well planned all I got was was supermom praise & usually requests to do more cuz I was so organized. Outside perfection did not translate into inside happiness. In fact, the reverse was true.
Rather recently my T told me it was ok to not answer the phone just cuz I didn't want to, or answer the door or not attend a social event. Anathema! What kind of person is he!!!!! Of course I'd drop what I was doing or planning to do immediately and with a smile accommodate. First times I didn't answer phone immediately I spent the time trying to think of a good excuse. Hid in the bathroom the first time a person I hardly knew stopped by unexpectly, so she'd think I wasn't home! But last week, I actually invited a friend in while there were dirty dishes in the sink! We had a perfect time even tho I was not dressed *appropriately* for company either! Just cuz I wanted to.

IMHO trauma involves the other person's wants and desires. Sometimes for our very survival. Making sure everything looks perfect, so nobody finds out. So I'll be ok. Most often to the extent we don't have any connection to what we want, like, or are. If we are lucky, we can find all that inside stuff as it's there. Really believe others never developed it. It's not hiding, it's not there. Used to reply to somebody asking where do you want to eat? by saying oh I like everything you choose. Learned that's not true and I can say so. Best yet, nothing bad happens anymore when I do.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Have read some of those holographic papers. Find them fascinating probably cuz they're *star trekkie*! Can't really comment on your misfortunes or say there is, could of been a fix. In my life I learned that organizing everything out there didn't really benefit me. When my house was immaculate, kids perfect, holidays well planned all I got was was supermom praise & usually requests to do more cuz I was so organized. Outside perfection did not translate into inside happiness. In fact, the reverse was true.
Rather recently my T told me it was ok to not answer the phone just cuz I didn't want to, or answer the door or not attend a social event. Anathema! What kind of person is he!!!!! Of course I'd drop what I was doing or planning to do immediately and with a smile accommodate. First times I didn't answer phone immediately I spent the time trying to think of a good excuse. Hid in the bathroom the first time a person I hardly knew stopped by unexpectly, so she'd think I wasn't home! But last week, I actually invited a friend in while there were dirty dishes in the sink! We had a perfect time even tho I was not dressed *appropriately* for company either! Just cuz I wanted to.

IMHO trauma involves the other person's wants and desires. Sometimes for our very survival. Making sure everything looks perfect, so nobody finds out. So I'll be ok. Most often to the extent we don't have any connection to what we want, like, or are. If we are lucky, we can find all that inside stuff as it's there. Really believe others never developed it. It's not hiding, it's not there. Used to reply to somebody asking where do you want to eat? by saying oh I like everything you choose. Learned that's not true and I can say so. Best yet, nothing bad happens anymore when I do.

@Starfire I can relate to this and totally get it. Saying "No" has been hard. I was there to fix, smooth out, get people straightened out, cook for and have the greatest family gatherings (even though I felt invisible in the whole thing) and in the end, nobody cared about me anymore than before. You can be nice, helpful, and make your best effort but that doesn't, in a dysfunctional family, mean sh*t! I divorced, and was an "outcase" for leaving...never was a part of that family anyway. If I had been, I'd have gotten a holiday card or a phone call because I was grandma. I miss my grandson, but he is young and will forget me....his mother, whom I tried so hard to be nice to and treat her equally to my daughter, did not see me as family.

Someone will find fault, criticize...and make you feel different in some way....and in the end we don't feel appreciated-because we are not. I beat my head against a brick wall being a fixer and was no more appreciated than when I did nothing. Eventually, when we no longer serve their family system adequately, we figure out that we can't change our abusers and either leave them, go no contact, or distance ourselves in some way to stop the abuse. Then we figure out we can change ourselves-but in my case, I needed to learn who I was without them. I did not have a strong core self, and I was always in fear, hiding/running away mode. I had a role in that family, but I was not kin to that family and there were no emotional ties, no respect, and little kindness.

Noone with trama was born defective-we were broken by other's mistreating us-as they were emotionally screwed up. If we have hope, we can change our old protective ways and be happy, content, and find other people with similar value systems to ours if we want to live without the drama and find a new "family" who accepts us. As long as we are drama seekers, this won't happen. If we have the skills and talents to survive and be unhappy, I believe we can change for the positive and use our skills and talents to have rich, contented lives.

 

[DharmaGirl]

And it cannot explain either effects on the immune and endocrine systems 30, 40, in 50 years down the road.

In my understanding, the anxiety associated with trauma causes hormonal cascades, which cause increase blood pressure, blood sugar, and physical stress from being in fight or flight mode. This causes illness.

In Buddhism there is a term called dukkah.

Dukkah actually refers to the First Noble Truth, all life is suffering. To relieve the suffering, one follows the Eightfold Path, the middle way. You can't control your entire environment, which it seems like you are trying to do. People who don't have trauma have bad relationships, car accidents, medical issues, and other problems like we do. It is our response to these issues (the changes in the brain from trauma) that cause the hormonal cascade which causes further illness.

It seems to me the more one tries to control every aspect, the less control one has.

 

[somerandomguy]

Dukkah actually refers to the First Noble Truth, all life is suffering.

Nailed it. The Pali word is transliterated "dukkha" and there is no direct translation - "suffering," "unsatisfactoriness," "pain," or "stress" are the usual English substitutes.

Ego death - whatever that is - would in no way decrease the amount of dukkha in one's life. The only way to counter dukkha is to notice it and to accept it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

In my understanding, the anxiety associated with trauma causes hormonal cascades, which cause increase blood pressure, blood sugar, and physical stress from being in fight or flight mode. This causes illness.



Dukkah actually refers to the First Noble Truth, all life is suffering. To relieve the suffering, one follows the Eightfold Path, the middle way. You can't control your entire environment, which it seems like you are trying to do. People who don't have trauma have bad relationships, car accidents, medical issues, and other problems like we do. It is our response to these issues (the changes in the brain from trauma) that cause the hormonal cascade which causes further illness.

It seems to me the more one tries to control every aspect, the less control one has.

I agree. When I tried controlling everything, it went to shxt and I was only more frustrated.

 

[Mach123]

Yes I've been doing this for years and writing about it here. My diary post this morning seems relevant to my reading this as I was taking about what I consider the how of doing this. (In between physics videos on YouTube.)

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj in his book (it's not his book it's a transcription of his discourse.). And Christian teachings. I won't kill for my religion, I'll die for it.

12 steps are a waste IMHO. There is so much good stuff available. Lots of people like it and I'm sorry to neg but I think dissent is important? Someone has to say the emperor is naked.

Judith Herman "trauma and recovery."

 

[maryiscontrary]

UPDATE

I know it's been a few weeks since I've posted and I really appreciate it everybody's support and feedback in my posts.

Number one, it is been roughly seven weeks since I quit my marijuana habit of 27 years. Like a bunch of phlegm that's being broken up, I'm dissociating a lot less. But this isn't all because of the marijuana use, as I was dissociating badly before that. A lot of this is due to my ego death.

I got so sick of feeling traumatized, having PTSD, and feeling like s*** all the time, despite having actually a pretty okay life compared to what it used to be. as I said before, I'm in a non-chemical based 12-step program, and I'm still plowing through step four. This is a monster step that can probably take a month or more to do with a sponsor. This is where you list your resentments. Keep in mind that Carl Jung had his hand in developing the basics of this 80 years ago.

I understand a lot of people were absolutely horrified when I brought up ego death. Well, for me personally, ego death means undoing all the pavlovian classical conditioning that leads to the crappie symptoms that we suffer from, and that are very debilitating. I was tired of having flashbacks. I was tired of not being able to work efficiently to support myself. I was tired of dissociating Non-Stop. I was sick of it.

I realized when I started on the ego death thing, all these people came out of the woodwork and started to insult and criticize me. This wasn't just here, these were random people in my life that knew nothing about me. It was mostly men, as most of my trauma comes from Men. It's weird living in a simulated universe, as you start to see glitches in The Matrix.

I have been called so many names in the last month it's crazy! But I realized , this was all to test my ego death. now, I can now acknowledge the person's attacks as Envy, or some other demon without taking it personally. Before, it would really hurt my feelings. Now, I can acknowledge it, and it not bother me at all. I mean, everybody has entitlement to their own opinion. Doesn't mean it's accurate. everybody has pain, so I don't take it personally when people lash out for no reason. I have done the same thing myself many times.

So, with my recovery, I am resurrecting a small online business that I let flounder for freaking 7 years. I felt so inadequate and disabled, that I did not do the proper upkeep and SEO that I knew how to do. I've been studying it for 11 years, I certainly know how to do the skills!
So my website is coming up massively in the rankings, and in another couple months, I should be making very good professional money like I used to. I time myself everyday, and I work 4 hours total , and this is total work, not drinking coffee and not checking Facebook or personal email. I time myself for hours a day doing solid income related activities without interruption.
Now this may not sound like a lot, but most knowledge workers only clock in a true productive 2 hours and 53 minutes a day in an 8 hour shift. So for solid hours of money making efforts is actually on par with healthy professional activity.

I also manifested a beautiful new apartment that is extremely cheap, and in another week it should be done. I am very fortunate to have a young indigenous man who is working very inexpensively, and he never knew what an artist he was. So I have all kinds of crazy art and murals on the wall, and it's cost me almost literally nothing. So no more living in tiny cave like spaces.

also, although it drew a lot of criticism, I find that not putting pressure on my frontal lobe, that is having goal-directed activity, multitasking, active planning, is actually helping me heal up a lot better. I will remind all of you guys that it is our frontal lobes that control the over activity of our amygdala, and if this gets fatigue, all those ugly mental illness symptoms come roaring back. So I plan a big part of every day not using my frontal lobe actively. I'm not dissociating, I'm not watching TV, I'm not meditating, just not doing anything during these times. I'm just trying to take in reality exactly as it is and not distort it. I suppose in theory this could be a type of vipassana meditation, but I'm not actually expending effort and making a time to do this like one normally would.

so ego death has allowed me to let go of a lot of things so far. I know I have tremendous amount of damage and physical and mental scars from the trauma, and I know that if I'm not careful I can slide backwards. But I refuse now to let the classical and operant conditioning ruin a perfectly nice day. Anyway, thanks!

 

[whiteraven]

Well, after decades of this bloody dukkah, what else can you do but just do a hard reset? This is how the indigenous explained it to me. You just let it all go, and start over again.

In Buddhism, you don't/can't just do a "hard reset." The relief of suffering comes through a lot of work, actually. An understanding of the cause of suffering and its cessation, and the path you take to overcome it.

 

[Cypress]

I just read this whole thread and as someone who earns a living doing gritty unglamorous medicine all over the world, I would like to respond to two points.

One, there is a physiologic definition of stress that is common to all animals from humans to zebra fish: circulating catecholamines and steroid hormones induce profound effects on the body at multiple different levels both acutely and chronically.

Two, those indigenous people that seem so healthy, not so, they and their children struggle with worms, dengue, malaria,, peripartum deaths, malnutrition and the list goes on. Girls get forced into marriage and women put up with being treated like property. After years in the field, I have had it with the "noble savage"concept.

I love sci-fi but this is real life with real consequences, it really doesn't matter if we are all ants in a science experiment. Life still hurts.

I worry, as others have pointed out, that ego dissolution may actually be suicidal ideation and not some Carlos Castaneda psychedelic enlightenment trip.

 

[Kubash16]

I just read this whole thread and as someone who earns a living doing gritty unglamorous medicine all over the world, I would like to respond to two points.

One, there is a physiologic definition of stress that is common to all animals from humans to zebra fish: circulating catecholamines and steroid hormones induce profound effects on the body at multiple different levels both acutely and chronically.

Two, those indigenous people that seem so healthy, not so, they and their children struggle with worms, dengue, malaria,, peripartum deaths, malnutrition and the list goes on. Girls get forced into marriage and women put up with being treated like property. After years in the field, I have had it with the "noble savage"concept.

I love sci-fi but this is real life with real consequences, it really doesn't matter if we are all ants in a science experiment. Life still hurts.

I worry, as others have pointed out, that ego dissolution may actually be suicidal ideation and not some Carlos Castaneda psychedelic enlightenment trip.

Love this

 

[maryiscontrary]

I just read this whole thread and as someone who earns a living doing gritty unglamorous medicine all over the world, I would like to respond to two points.

One, there is a physiologic definition of stress that is common to all animals from humans to zebra fish: circulating catecholamines and steroid hormones induce profound effects on the body at multiple different levels both acutely and chronically.

Two, those indigenous people that seem so healthy, not so, they and their children struggle with worms, dengue, malaria,, peripartum deaths, malnutrition and the list goes on. Girls get forced into marriage and women put up with being treated like property. After years in the field, I have had it with the "noble savage"concept.

I love sci-fi but this is real life with real consequences, it really doesn't matter if we are all ants in a science experiment. Life still hurts.

I worry, as others have pointed out, that ego dissolution may actually be suicidal ideation and not some Carlos Castaneda psychedelic enlightenment trip.

Again, a little respect would be nice. Although I respect your opinion, I have taught over a thousand nurses and doctors physiology, pathology, Immunology, pharmacology, advanced microbiology, and so forth. If you want to we can get into a debate. But I'm not going to throw insults at you.

I'm not saying that it's a perfect society, I'm just saying that these people are a hell of a lot healthier and live very long lives than more westernized folks in country that I live. However, these folks here have access to very good healthcare. perhaps where you're at, they don't. but I speak the language and I've spent a lot of time out in the sticks with them, and they just do not have the stress-related modernized illnesses that we do.

And again, it's not professional nor very humane to project your negative ideation on me. it's not of a high-class demeanor to tell somebody what their internal state is. I was always under the impression that that is a form of gaslighting. I am in the best physical condition that I have ever been. I have an incredible diet, as I've eliminated All chemical and food addictions. After deciding to kill my ego, money is actually starting to roll in, and I'm not dissociating all the time. I am socializing with my friends more than I have ever in my life, and I have also made peace with very troubled family without sacrificing my integrity. I am not saying that this is your experience, but then again who are you to project who I am?

And like I said in another thread, I'm actually a scholar in stress research and have had over a hundred media interviews with this topic. So you don't have to educate me, but I would appreciate a little respect. Many blessings to you. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.