Treatment With Cannabis

[Seasounds]

Questions: Does anyone use marijuana with SSRI's and or benzo's? If so, what adjustments do you make? Do you find Providers that accept your choice and work with you, or do you need to do it without Providers?

My experience:
I live in a state where marijuana is legal to purchase for recreational and medicinal use. This greatly increases people's choices of treatment options. Friends who have anxiety and pain find great relief. I agree, everyone responds individually to doasage and species used.; I think that it key.

For my PTSD, when I tried it, I didn't find the right dose. It was too much. I felt too disassociated from my emotions, I felt emotionally flat. Since that time I have learned that, across the board, I need only 25% of normal adult doses of psychoactive substances. So if I try it again for PTSD symptoms, I will take that into account. Because of that first unsuccessful attempt, I uses standard prescribed meds for management of my PTSD.

This discussion comes at an interesting time for me. Due to a side effect of a prescription level anti-inflammatory drug, and due to simultaneous prolonged exposure to my migraine trigger, I have not been able to turn off a migraine ( three weeks long now.)

At my wit's end since traditionally prescribed meds aren't working-never really have, yesterday, while I was complaining about my problem at a friend's house, (who uses marijuana for anxiety), I got an offer to try her marijuana for my migraine. From past dosage learning, I took a small dose. Result, ahhhh :)! I experienced nice, smooth, gentle, yet effective, relief of intracranial pressure, pain, and associated anxiety.

Still have a lower level migraine to reduce today. Doctor has suggested I now just stay with relaxing and pain meds ( benzos and hydrocodone-which both seem to do what marijuana did.)

Thanks for the species/strain to use for anxiety.
Last question: Anyone use marihuana for migraines? What species?

 

[Deleted member 28986]

@Saetva, good questions.

• There is scientific literature supporting the notion that cannabis and opioids (like hydrocodone) have a synergistic effect. Together, they have a stronger pain-relieving effect than you would expect, and because you need to use less, you get fewer side effects from both. I have used both in conjunction muself, though I'm not doing so regularly now.
• I tell most doctors about my cannabis use. I just write it under "supplements." The only time a doctor ever treated it like it was a problem was when I was in the hospital's mental ward for a few nights. I have a doctor's authorization for horrible muscle spasticity that you can see, and the hospital psychiatrist handed me a pamphlet on Marijuana Anonymous, a twelve-step program for cannabis addiction . . . I guess? ;)
• I used to get several headaches a week and a few terrible migraines a year. Imitrex would help on the few occasions I took it, but OTC pain meds were a joke. I have had 0 migraines since becoming a cannabis patient a couple years ago. Many users report cannabis is excellent for migraines. Strangely enough, for ordinary, non-migraine headaches, sometimes I find caffeine + acetaminophen more effective than cannabis.
• I know a number of folks who use cannabis in conjunction with benzos and/or SSRIs, but if there's literature supporting it, I don't know about it. I only have anecdotal evidence.
• I hope this is obvious, but if your pain doctor does urinalysis, then (s)he's probably testing for cannabis as well. So don't disobey his or her instructions regarding cannabis use unless you're ready to quit your hydrocodone.
• It's easy to become dependent on opioids or benzodiazepines, meaning you can't quit taking them without a period of horrible withdrawal effects. With cannabis, "withdrawal" symptoms are usually a mere return of the original problem. Some people say there's a rebound effect where the original problem is worse, but I definitely have not experienced that.

There are soooo many strains, and many of them are regional only, so a bit of trial and error is required. It seems to be a personal choice, too—everyone's biochemistry is unique, as @FridayJones discussed in depth. If you ask 20 people, you'll get 40 "best" strains. Personally, I find that indicas and indica-dominant hybrids work well for me. If my anxiety is bad, I'd lean toward indica. If depression is the issue, I'd go for a more-balanced hybrid or even a sativa. Many people have little to no tolerance for indicas in the daytime. However, as a lifelong insomniac, I seem to need quite a lot to induce sleep, so I lean toward daytime indica use whereas most people would not.

There are lots of great resources online where you can find patients' reviews of strains. The one I use lets you search by condition (like PTSD or depression) and symptom (like anxiety or insomnia). There's an impressive amount of raw data out there. A couple of my favorite indicas for anxiety/insomnia are Romulan and Purple Bubba Kush. There are also CBD-only oil concentrates that are pretty awesome. You owe it to yourself to try a CBD-only product. CBD has clean anti-anxiety and anti-pain effects with even fewer side effects.

I think you brought up an awesome point when you said cannabis led to dissociative-type symptoms. You're absolutely right, that's a possible unintended side effect. If that occurs, reduce dosage and/or try a different strain, possibly something more sativa dominant.

A few more caveats to bear in mind:

• If you use cannabis frequently, your body builds up a tolerance. This means you need more to get the same effect. Our of kindness to your bank account and your body, you can reset your tolerance with a short period of no cannabis use. I usually take 4-day breaks every month or two.
• Edibles can be good for insomnia, but their effects come on so erratically I can't use them for daytime use. Actually, there's a CBD-only edible I like for daytime use, but they're hard to find.
  
• While taking too little can be ineffective, taking too much can be bad too. Fortunately, many (most?) people can intuitively dose inhaled (vaporized) cannabis once they get a feel for what amount is right for them.

Hopefully something in my blob of text will be useful. Ha!

 

[Seasounds]

1. @The One Who Knocks, your blog was terrifically helpful!:D

Thank you!

 

[Just tryin to heal]

just wanted to put a big thankyou out there. All the information that has been put up in reply has been very helpful.

 

[Seasounds]

At this point, after 4 weeks, my migraine has finally resolved. I learned that I don't get full relief from migraines, and had to add benzos and hydrocodone, for weeks to get the migraine to close down. I tried marijuana a week ago, and it helped me out of a pain and pressure crisis with the migraine. I think that it unlocked the crux of my migraine, and my migraine has improved ever since.

So, after speaking with the friend that let me use her marijuana, when I can afford it, I will ho get some myself, to us on such occasions. My friend recommended a particular shop,

At this point, I am not confident about telling my Providers. I need to sit with it for a while; I fear abandonment of Providers that I have seen over a decade. You never know what may be a 'deal breaker' or a 'trust loss'.

Yes this thread has been a pain killer-literally! Teamwork, support, and information, are so valuable and appreciated!:hug:

@The One Who Knocks
How much oil/drops do you estimate I might try, (as a dose on the low side since I have no built up tolerance).

 

[Deleted member 28986]

Sorry for my delay, @Saetva. Life is crazy.

I recommend beginners use something inhalable (e.g. vaporized). Inhaled medicine takes effect much quicker and is easier to dose than edibles or tinctures, which rely on your relatively slow digestive system. Take a few gentle puffs from your vaporizer and see how it affects you. It might take several minutes for your mind and body to notice some of the effects. After waiting five or ten minutes, check in with your symptoms, both PTSD and migraine. If some symptoms have gotten worse, maybe the strain you're trying isn't the best one for you. If symptoms are better but not yet manageable, maybe consider a few more puffs. Don't overdo it, especially not your first few times. Be gentle on yourself.

I don't recommend trying edibles when you're totally new. I think the "drops" you described are an edible or something you put under your tongue? But maybe you're referring to a product with which I'm unfamiliar? If I'm off base, let me know. If you're talking about putting drops of oil into an oil vaporizer, you can get many puffs out of just 2–3 little drops.

It seems most everyone I've talked to who had an unpleasant cannabis experience has done one of these two things: ate too much of an edible, or used an "unknown" strain that was probably contraindicated by their symptoms. "Too much" of an edible can be quite a small amount! You might not feel any effects from an edible until 30 minutes, and you might not feel full effects until an hour or two. Compare to inhalation which yields some effects within a few seconds, and substantial effects within a few minutes.

If/when you do choose to go the edible route, start with a small dose. In my state, all edibles are labeled with the milligrams of THC they contain, which is very useful! A beginner's dose might have 5–10 mg of THC, which might be as little as a tenth of an edible! If you accidentally take more than you need and you feel really uncomfortable, here's the thing to remember: You are not dying! You just feel bad and it'll go away in a few hours. Lay down and sleep it off. Of course, you don't want to take too much, because you'll be teaching yourself that weed makes you feel bad. When in reality it's taking waaaaay too much of the medicine that makes you feel bad.

I think that's it for now. Do we need to start a weekly video podcast? "Doing Drugs with Heisenberg" has a nice ring to it.

Good luck on your migraines, @Saetva! I'm sorry it took four weeks for it to go away but I'm glad it's in the past now. Big hugs. Keep us posted! :)

 

[Lionheart]

I thought I had said all I wanted to say on this subject, but with 7 chronic illnesses, I am very much in support of legalizing medical marijuana for chronic and terminally ill patients and especially for those of us with PTSD!!!!

I am an avid supporter of legalizing recreational marijuana for responsible adults, 18 or 21 and over as well. Not to stop there I am also proactive in getting industrial hemp going again!!!

I am not as knowledgeable as some on the subject, but I have smoked on and off since I was 13 and I am now 54...you do the math. LOL (that's 41 years) and I have never burned a doobie and said to myself, " hey I think i will go kill a cop"...rather I relax, tune into the peace, love, music and happiness and sometimes the munchies. ....*(and sometimes I get a little sleepy as well)!

I just want to say that having had a religious group stimey the medical marijuana bill here where I live, while there are children suffering with epilepsy, MS, etc. that need CBD oil for instance (which by the way does not get them high) just infuriates me.

I am hoping for legalization and decriminalization nationally and eventually, globally!!!

 

[Seasounds]

:singing: FYI, to everyone, my migraine is over;no more, even small symptoms, since yesterday. Marijuana broke the spell; after a toke, it decreased and got under control so that the traditional meds with benzos and hydrocodone closed it down, within 3 days. Now I know that I don't have to suffer like that anymore. I can use marijuana earlier on, in the future!:) Thank you for your compassion and help! :hug: Today, I have that almost giddy feeling, of having been let out of prison-the vice grip of the sphenoid bones (on the lateral side of your eyes).

@The One Who Knocks, I'm grateful whenever you reply.

There are also CBD-only oil concentrates that are pretty awesome. You owe it to yourself to try a CBD-only product. CBD has clean anti-anxiety and anti-pain effects with even fewer side effects.

this was the oil I was referring to. And I think you addressed it, in your response.

I really like your idea to start with the vaporized herbal strains, in that I can regulate my dose easier. Being a beginner, and never liking to feel too drugged-where I can't attend to my life tasks, your suggestions resonate with me.

Secondly, in support of your rationale, I am a slow metabolizer of everything, across the board (e.g. my SSRI is a pediatric dose; because on a low adult dose, I got side effects (of too much) on the 2nd day on an SSRI, since I don't metabolize/break down the drug as fast as others.)
For that reason, I will under dose myself, until I get a handle on how my body metabolizes it. Due to a bad past experience, that you reminded me of (read below), I will try new doses and strains on my weekends.

Your tutelage has been a great help!:tup: It has given me a knowledge base, to make wise choices.

@Lionheart777,

rather I relax, tune into the peace, love, music and happiness and sometimes the munchies. ....*(and sometimes I get a little sleepy as well)!

Exploring 'letting go' is a good thing for me. As you'll read below, a light dose of marijuana, years ago, was more enjoyable for me than the effects of two glasses of wine.

religious group stimey the medical marijuana bill here where I live, while there are children suffering with epilepsy MS, etc. that need CBD oil for instance (which by the way does not get them high) just infuriates me.

Yep, I'm with you! I think that actions that are based out of narrow viewpoints, and that make others suffer, are cruel. A friedn with cancer, really benefited from using marijuana. I'd love to see cannabis legalized, everwhere. Actiivsm, of our generation, may keep pushing legalization forward.

Regarding hash, after speaking to a friend, last night, who doesn't tolerate cannabis, but tolerates hash, I agree with you about bringing it back-said niavely, not knowing much about it. I've never used hash; even taking another try with marijuana is a big step.

A bit of my path: At age 40, just to see what my generation was enjoying, I tried it, three times. The first two times, (one short toke) was good-gentle elevation of my mood. However, the third time, after a trusted friend had deeply emotionally injured me, I tried it as a 'coping tool'. Thinking I was an experienced user :giggle:, I took two long tokes. This put under for a day; not even being able to access my feeling, or direct my intentions, I was frightened; it was like being under water, and not being able to breathe. (The half-life of cannabis is so long, and due to drug interactions concerns.) Being scared, rash, and short-sighted (that finding an optimal dose was possible) I decided to throw cannabis out of my options, for a second time.

The first time was an intellectual choice; due to growing up as the youngest child in an alcoholic family, where parents and older siblings relied on alcohol or marijuana to make them happy, and bring them relief, I perceived that the way they used those substances didn't expand their freedom in life. For that reason, as a young teen, I made it a point to not use recreational drugs. I did 'lapse' from my rigidity, enough to try getting slightly drunk, once. Hating the feeling of being more depressed and out of control, I quickly let go of alcohol. (Now enjoy the taste, of a glass of wine, now and then, to go with food.)

A little older, from my college studies, I thought that working through my feelings, in therapy, was going to be the solution. This plan worked well until I stopped isolating-to manage my triggers, when I wanted to enter the 'real world' to find greater fulfillment. Experiencing more triggers meant that I needed medication, to subdue, not totally suppress my feelings. With concern for the whole dosing issue, I used SSRI and benzos. Now with cannabis being legal where I live, and being able to learn/control dosing, it is a different world of possibilities for me.

With experiencing how marijuana solved a problem that no other substance relieved, I feel that I understand another level of reality, like yours. Thank you for sharing how it has helped you manage multiple concerns. I hope that it becomes legal, where you live. What a joy that will be!:happy:

 

[WildMermaid]

I'm allergic to most drugs including benzodiazepines, but grew up around a lot of drug use. Marijuana is legal in my state for recreation and medical usage. It's also the only thing that eased my mother at all during her end days with cancer. I've voted for it in a couple of states, I believe in its effectiveness, and that it is far safer and more organic than many other options. Trying to learn how to buy it is scary and sets a panic attack in motion for me as here are so many types and strains, and I have yet to set foot in a pot store. Will do it, just scared -which has shame attached- i have to do something for migraine, bone pain (EDS), and rheumatoid arthritis. I just find smoking it painful and choking and when I've eaten it I may as well be Alice in a Madhouse as I hallucinate and walls and floors twist and warp. The vapor thing sounds worth looking into! Thank you all for the information in this thread...especially @The One Who Knocks! I'll be processing it for some time, of course over and over as my migraine and PTSD have me looping in circular thinking patterns.

 

[joeylittle]

Definitely try vapor, @WildMermaid. Frankly, I think the smokers don't understand the difference all the time. Vapor, you are getting 96% of the drug, and nearly no carcinogens. Smoking, you get between 12-28% (if I'm remembering right) and a really long list of PATHs. Vapor, you use less to get the same effect and you get it faster.

Also - you do not need to hold the vapor (or smoke) in your lungs. All the bioavailability happens quickly; holding it is a myth.

When you use vapor, start with just a little. And for pain, you want higher levels of CBD - that's the stuff that works primarily on the pain receptors in the body. THC is the dominant hallucinogen, CBD modulates its effect. Low THC and start slow.

 

[WildMermaid]

Thank you so much @joeylittle that is useful information! Also glad to know that you don't have to hold it, as my lungs are unwilling to and when I've tried smoking it I cough and spout smoke like a chimney. P.s. love your cow yoga avi.

 

[Seasounds]

@WildMermaid,
Since I last posted, entered my first cannabis store. It is kind of a face paced place-like waiting in line at the pharmacy. and i felt a bit claustrophobic-a small store with lots of people, and a guard to boot. I got (figuratively) dizzy, with the clerk asking me what I wanted (with a pressure to be kind of quick about my request-like ordering at Starbucks)

If I had to do it again, I would:

• Write down my preferences, like the advice above.
• I'd go to an on-line compendium, like Leafly.com, and read about their 'top ten'. Have a strain or two to ask about. The hybrids seem to offer a good coverage symptoms and balance of effects.
• Realize you may need to go to a couple of shops to get one, your medication, and secondly, the kind of pipe you want.
• Bring a friend, who can support you to be comfortable and take your time.
• In the cannabis shop, they will have a description and customer review of each strain. (Just like amazon.com)
• Avoid going the two hours before they close, the store gets busier.

I wish I would've bought the list of suggestions in this thread. Under pressure, nervousness, I just went blank. The strain I got was ok-the clerks suggestion, it was a bit too sedating ( I was so anxious for being in the shop the first time, I think the clerk felt the need to sedate me ;)) but it worked for my migraine, and they didn't have a mid-size 8 inch water pipe, I was hoping for this-- since it gives enough moisture that it doesn't hurt to inhale. (I thought that the longer 8 inch pipe was a good low cost step, for a beginner-me, who may use once every 3 months.

Next time I go, I will follow the advice I listed above. Still need to look into vapor pipes, cost, and locations.

Good luck! You can do it. Maybe just go in and look the first time?:)