News Uk Eu Referendum

[Anarchy]

Ireland could have a border to enforce between North and South.

that border was only ever used for taxation purposes, there has always been free movement and freedom of employment either side of it, including the respective civil services (requirement for Irish language for Irish civil service jobs has been replaced by requirement for a second European language, although I guess Mandarin would probably get you in too).

apart from referenda on constitutional matters brits resident in Ireland can vote in Irish elections and vice versa

As an example of somewhere that is not in the EU, take a look at the Isle of Man
I can't remember whether Jersey or Guernsey are in or out
Switzerland is not in, neither is Norway

In each of those cases, it is no disability

 

[Lotis]

I am finding this all very interesting - especially being in the USA and watching our political madness happening here. It is refreshing to see the majority (the people) get what they want. Our media is all over this Brexit thing! I don't quite understand it all but from what I have read this gives the UK more control over who will cross their borders which is a good thing right now ya? but it also will effect the value of the pound which is not such a good thing. What I don't understand is how it will be better for the UK economy.
I am not sure how it effects all of the folks on these boards but wishing you all good thoughts!
L

 

[Anarchy]

from what I have read this gives the UK more control over who will cross their borders which is a good thing right now ya?

It just hands the decision to a different group of politicians and bureaucrats
It doesn't do anything for an individual deciding who they can invite onto their property and who they don't want on their own property, or who they can buy from and sell to, or who they can work for or employ, and at what rates.

Britain will still have a the illusion of free money, free healthcare and free accomodation to act as a magnet for (some) migrants. It is interesting to contrast that with the draw for migrants to the united state in the second half of the 19th century and the first half of the twentieth.

The bureaucrats might be different people, sat in different offices, but it still doesn't make them any cleverer, wiser, nicer or more moral people,

they're still going to be denying individuals some very basic choices

but it also will effect the value of the pound which is not such a good thing. What I don't understand is how it will be better for the UK economy.

The thing which affects the relative values of currencies, is how fast the central banks are issuing paper (or digits on a screen), and expectations for how that is going to change in the future
Prior to 1914, there was in effect a world currency: gold
It couldn't be cheaply printed (to dilute its value relative to other goods and services) it had to be mined, a slow and expensive process, so its quantity tended to only change very slowly

The printing of money, does not create wealth and prosperity, it only transfers purchasing power to people who are closer to the points where the new money enters the economy (typically banks and hedge funds). those transfers of wealth and re-distributions of purchasing power are called "Cantillon Effects"
they occur because the people who get the new money first (the state, bankers and hedge funds) get to spend that money before prices rise,
people who get the money late (people on fixed incomes, and pensioners), get it after the prices have risen.

I am not sure how it effects all of the folks on these boards but wishing you all good thoughts!
L

:hug::)

 

[Anarchy]

It looks like the billionaires just got their fingers burned

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-24/who-are-biggest-losers-brexit
be aware that the comments section there is a troll infested zone

 

[cherryblossom]

What has saddened me, and disappointed me throughout this process, is the politicians scare-mongering and and lies, from both camps. I don't think either the in or out campaigners did either argument any favours, and left lots of people non-the-wiser.

I'm perfectly happy to admit, that I'm not big on politics, so all I could do was try to inform myself as much as possible, and then weigh up the pro's and cons, and make a decision. Because that's what a democracy is all about... letting the people decide. I take my opportunity to vote very seriously, to choose not to vote wasn't an option for me. Democracy is important. Which is a big part of why I voted out. I want us to make our own decisions about laws, and immigration, who we trade with, etc. I don't want someone in Brussels who I've had no democratic say in electing, making those decisions for me and my country.

What has disappointed me even more than the political campaigns, is the response on social media, now that the results are in. So much hatred from those that voted to 'stay' towards those who voted to 'leave'. That type of response to a referendum held in a democratic society is scary. Every person who voted did so because they have the right to. And whether people voted on fact, or gut response, they chose their vote because they felt it's the right thing to do.

Whether you agree with the outcome or not doesn't matter as everyone has to live with the decision that's been made. I don't know if it will end up a good thing or bad thing but we also can't say what would have happened staying in the EU. The point is no-one will every really know whether the outcome is good or bad, because we don't know what the outcome would have been if the decision had fallen the other way. A bit like if we hadn't ever joined the EU 40 odd years ago, no-one knows where we would be today

My own thoughts now are that we need accept the decision that has been made by this referendum, unite and deal with it in the best possible way. And that for me has so many exiting and interesting possibilities. And hopefully, I'll get the opportunity to continue to vote and have a say in how the country where I live is run. Whilst I do realise there will always be bureaucracy and red tape, and I won't get a vote on everything, I'm very grateful to live in a democracy.

 

[The Albatross]

I loved the look on Christine Armanpour's (spelling?) face when he said in a CNN interview, well we are a democracy...
Heh.

Nice to see a place where they actually put things on the ballot instead of regulating or using a judiciary branch to enforce shit on people.

 

[Gadgie]

Well, we have done it, and I'm delighted about it, now we can have our country back, and run it by ourselves!

There was a bloke banging on about how we could never stand alone, I posted back saying, that we were perfectly capable of standing alone, after all, we were totally alone in 1940, and came out of that all right.

A lot of the younger voters voted to remain in, but then again, they don't know any thing else, they are too young to remember what our country was like, before we joined?

We were never asked if we wanted to join, we were just told it was going to happen, and it's been 45 years, before we got our chance to express our feelings on the matter, and boy, did they get a shock!!!

 

[oasis2003]

Well I was shocked to leave ! It is what it is we need to make the best of it. It just concerns me about the economy and how many years it will take to sort out . It might be a good thing though nobody knows .

 

[Anarchy]

It just concerns me about the economy and how many years it will take to sort out .

let's hope the politicians, bureaucrats and bank of England can be kept from meddling and interfering in it. There are decades of distortions which, left to consumers alone, will work itself out in about 18 months to 2 years;

for an illustration of that time scale, check out the recession of 1921 - the last one that was left to the market - which is probably why we never hear about it.

With political meddling, a recession can be turned into a depression and the pain can be kept going for decades, as the Great depression was, and this one has been kept going for almost 8 years now.

The damage is (contrary to John Maynard Keynes' ideas) done during the inflationary boom / bubble

The recession is when the mistakes made during the boom are revealed and corrected.

If Brexit has triggered a recession (I think it may have done) - it certainly wasn't the cause of it, we've been over ripe for the restructuring and clearing out of distortions which wasn't allowed to happen in 2008. Brexit was only the trigger.

If the correction is here, there will be all sorts of previously well connected cronies and special interests squealing for bail-outs and telling us how vital they are for the economy

The fact that they'll want bailouts shows that the buying public just are not interested in paying the prices they'd been asking for the goods they were providing. The public gets to vote every day of the year and with every penny spent, or not spent.
politicians and bureaucrats can only stand in the way and hamper that everyday economic democracy.

 

[Stickler]

After I saw what the EU did to Greece, I personally would have wanted out.

As I've been given to understand? Greece bought an enormous amount of arms, mostly to the benefit of NATO...Much of it made in Germany at profit.
...This was agreed to under very murky circumstances by Greek politicians. In other words, kickbacks and/or bribes may have occurred.
...Germany now demands crushing austerity to pay back the debt incurred.
This seems rather nasty, at best, yes?

Very similar to what the International Monetary Fund has been doing to wreck economies in developing nations. Part of why they are still developing...at a snail's pace.

If I were a UK citizen, I would have voted for Brexit for fear of ending up on the hook for debts incurred by my government, forced into dire poverty by same.

 

[Anarchy]

Very similar to what the International Monetary Fund has been doing to wreck economies in developing nations. Part of why they are still developing...at a snail's pace.

Perkins; confessions of an economic hitman
describes that process in detail

If I were a UK citizen, I would have voted for Brexit for fear of ending up on the hook for debts incurred by my government, forced into dire poverty by same.

I'd love to see B Liar, Brown, Cameron et al personally on the hook for the debts that they incurred in the name of other people
It's credit card fraud writ large
It's also a great reason for the population to repudiate the debts

 

[Deleted member 28740]

In the 1920s, bilateral relations were generally friendly. In 1923 London renegotiated its ₤978 million war debt to the U.S. Treasury by promising regular payments of ₤34 million for ten years then ₤40 million pounds for 52 years. The idea was for the US to loan money to Germany, which in turn paid reparations to Britain, which in turn paid off its loans from the US government. In 1931 all German payments ended, and in 1932 Britain suspended its payments to the US. The debt was finally repaid after 1945