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News Us politics - read first post before comment

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"Atmosphere" = people present who do not share my views.

I have reported this comment. But I will answer you. My ONLY friend here with whom I talk with away from this board and with whom I have been working on a slow burn project has different views from me, diametrically opposing over some issues. this does not stop me trying to see that persons perspective where it differs from mine or to concede I might not have that person’s experience, knowledge or perspective. Having worked in areas where it is VITAL I maintain my integrity of perspective I consider it a strength- a strength that’s actually proved to be to my detriment in healing from PTSD , to be ruthlessly unbiased in assessing what I do not like when required. To my detriment or against my favour or preference if that’s what Is shown.

For example/ joey little and I had a reasonable clarity seeking exercise.

The atmosphere is that which you just demonstrated- one which sideways has been victim too and which as joeylittle pointed out is not just onesided. I also admitted my own failings. For this unnecessary , inaccurate and ugly flaming I reported your post.
 
@Mee and @The Albatross - Temp thread ban.

There's a difference between debating points and debating the person.

Example of debating politics:
Person A: I think we should have universal health care because of blah blah...
Person B: I think universal health care will not work because of blah blah...

Example of debating people:
Person A: You are foolish. You are this... that... You have done this... created that...
Person B: Your post is an example of being paranoid...

If you have any questions about the difference between debating politics vs debating the person, use Contact Us. If a post concerns you, report it, let staff review it, and move forward. Don't continue to go after the person. Debate ideas, not people. Use the ignore button if you need to do so.

We are headed into a heated election season, and I do not want to see this thread devolve into members constantly going after each other. Stop or you'll be thread banned.

Let's get back on topic.
 
I'd love to see the cost of living in this country to drop. The cost of living is in outter space, it's so high. Would love to see someone in this country to care about single people living on a single income. Not sure what's rasing it so high but UGH!
 
10,000 known novel coronavirus infections so far and they are shutting down commercial travel from the US to China. Some virologists are projecting 11 million infections and growing by the end of Feb.

The xenophobia that will come from this and market disruption may be worse than the virus itself.

Coronavirus: CDC Puts Americans Who Left Wuhan Into 'Unprecedented' 14-Day Quarantine
It’s wacky they’re calling it unprecedented. Although I suppose technically correct? The CDC doesn’t usually quarantine Americans who’ve been ordered out from a country... it’s usually the military or state dept., depending on which plane they got on, that does it as standard operating procedure. Happens all the time. Americans are evacuated, and then expats & travelers are held on base along with the foreign service peeps & military personel, until they test clean. Longest I ever got stuck anywhere as a kid was 29 days (freaking long incubation period, that germ, can’t recall at the moment what it was... my mom would know), shortest was 10 hours in a terminal. (Cleared us fast enough we weren’t even bussed to base, they just held us on the plane until the blood tests came back). Infections vary like that. Some can be tested for straight away, others have to incubate before showing up in blood & sputum. As an adult I only got caught in one sweep, and that one was a pretty middling 10 days. On the other side of the fence? (Working search and rescue) I can’t even begin to quantify how many times the people we pulled out were quarantined for various lengths of time. Again, just SOP.

It makes me wonder how much of this politics (powerful people objecting to standard precautions and protocols, so more powerful people have to THUNK them, to get them to behave), how much is political theatre, and how much is science.
 
It makes me wonder how much of this politics (powerful people objecting to standard precautions and protocols, so more powerful people have to THUNK them, to get them to behave), how much is political theatre, and how much is science.
I think there is quite a bit pf political theater going on. Travel bans and the like have been shown by various studies to not work for viruses like this, and yet the US is issuing ever more stringent travel bans.

This is a really great article about what is NOT true about the virus: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/coronavirus-disinformation-spread
 
Well...
Pelosi's behaviour at the State of the union was pretty disgusting.
I get wanting to make a statement, but tearing up her copy of the address in front of not just millions of Americans, but the whole world. Holy shit, what a way to act like a spoilt toddler on the world stage, yet they wonder why they're haemorrhaging voters.
Good lord.
 
Here ya go: Ukraine - Anti-corruption court launches investigation on Poroshenko and Obama | Donbass Insider I had others but I'm in some other discussions now. This one though has screen grabs of the documents. Like I said the Ukrainian opposition parliament deputy posted this information on his Facebook page, along with copies of the documents proving his claims.

The thing that makes Ukraine immensely interesting so far as US politics goes is the amount of missing US Aid, loans, pay for play, corruption, money laundering... and the fact that the US has an agreement: Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Rather than all the Russia stuff... Ukraine and China are under some pretty intense scrutiny.

RE: The Supreme Court taking up an electoral college suit.. I understand that there are 4 others (maybe more) but this one is on the docket.

Agreed...and the fact they have a faction of their military that is Neo Nazi and funded at least in part by the government is frightening. I think what really just infuriates me is that even the Ukranian Prez has said nothing happened yet we have spent millions of dollars on this circus when we could be doing things that matter. I don't really give two shits if he did do what the Democrats say he did. IF Biden secured a job for his son through GIVING Ukraine aid money and Trump got to the bottom of it by withholding aid money, well no brainer...I find myself completely disturbed by the thought process that has gotten us to this point. I don't love everything Trump says or does and I wish he would stay off Twitter, but gosh darn he has made a fool out of North Korea and China... Damn if he hasn't made more stride with Chinese trade than any other President in history. If there is ever a country that doesn't want him re-elected it would be those two. Would be interesting to see how many Chinese owned companies are backing Biden, Sanders, and Warren. Pete is too clean...doubt he would take the money knowingly.
 
I was watching something irrelevant relating to economics the other day and it referred to the 'Trump' factor.

Interestingly the fact that Trump is considered so entirely random & unpredictable and does all of this un presi stuff (like Twitter and going off script in news conferences, sacking people blah, blah) has completely unnerved some foreign leaders from getting too far along with their own random agendas. Whilst they could have almost guaranteed there'd be a stifled reaction or no reaction at all to some of their antics with previous Presidents or if the Dems were in power; not so confident whilst Trump is sitting because they don't know what the likely outcome might be. Just the threat of not being able to safely anticipate is apparently making them pause and is allegedly having a damping effect on some despots and et al thinking about trying his patience or short fuse.

Weird really.. his unpredictability is something of an asset whereas it was touted as one of his biggest failings by some.

Who knew?
 
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but tearing up her copy of the address in front of not just millions of Americans, but
Agreed. I'd say it ranks right up there with refusing to shake hands with the Speaker of the House in that situation.

For those who aren't familiar with the way the state of the union speech is orchestrated, the Speaker of the House INVITES the president to come to the House, in their traditional meeting space, and address the 3 branches of government and the country. Refusing her offered handshake, under the circumstances, is rather like accepting a dinner invitation and ignoring the greeting of your host. Still, personally, I'd have preferred it if she'd ignored his insult rather that appearing to stoop to his level.
even the Ukranian Prez has said nothing happened
What, exactly, do you EXPECT him to say? They still need our aid. How much help is he going to get if he he says anything different? I don't KNOW how the Ukrainian president felt. I'm not offering an opinion on that one way or the other. I'm just saying I think this is a situation where he's going to say the same thing, regardless of how he feels or felt at the time. There's no real point in even asking the question, is there? You ask a rapist if he/she committed a rape, how often will they say "Yes?" right off the bat? Not very darn often, right? A teacher asks a kid if they're being bullied at school. How often does the kid say they are? And what happens next? (The bully beats the crap out of them for ratting them out, right?)
IF Biden secured a job for his son through GIVING Ukraine aid money and Trump got to the bottom of it by withholding aid money, well no brainer...
I actually haven't seen any evidence that he did that. I think it's WAY more likely that his son was offered the job because people working for that company HOPED he could influence his father. I haven't seen any evidence that he actually DID influence his father.

The famous "firing the prosecutor" incident was firing a prosecutor that our government and the EU agreed was corrupt, because, as our "point person" for the Ukraine, it was Biden's JOB to try to get him removed. Do I think it was a good idea for Hunter Biden to take that job? NO. It was a mind blowingly stupid idea because of the the job his father had at the time. On the other hand, I don't think it's any more corrupt that a lot of rich kids who get jobs they aren't qualified for because of who they're related to.

To be clear, the Vice President of the US doesn't hand out foreign aid. Congress votes on it, the President vetoes or not. The VP really doesn't get much direct say about it. What has become a question is why that prosecutor was fired. The facts, as I know them, say that there was general agreement, in the US and Europe, during the Obama administration, that the guy was corrupt. That was during the PREVIOUS Ukrainian administration. (The timing of all this gets confusing.) He got fired. A new president got elected in both countries. For reasons I don't understand, Rudy Giuliani seems to have decided that the guy was ok, and he's trying to make that case that there was something wrong with firing him. I think it's highly unlikely that he got fired because he was about to investigate the company H. Biden was on the board of, because the reason he got fired in the first place was that he wasn't investigating ANYONE. (Probably not literally true, but it seems he was only investigating those who didn't pay him off, or who have some other sort of leverage.)

If there's a conspiracy here involving the Biden's I'd like to see it dragged out in the open, and BEFORE the election. But there's a lot of other stuff I'd like to see dragged out into the open BEFORE the election too. What I'd REALLY like to see is our elected officials doing their jobs as originally conceived, not like it's some kind of grand sporting event where there have to be winners and losers. Getting to the actual truth seems like it's in the best interest of the country. But, the way things stand at the moment, I don't know what it would take to produce a "truth" that was convincing to folks on both sides of the Trump divide.
 
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