Relationship Verbally attacked at the mall, why doesn't he fight back?

[GWhizz]

I haven't read all the replies in full so apologies if I'm repeating others.

Just wanted to answer your initial question and say that I wouldn't think not reacting / fighting back would worsen my PTSD. In fact, it'd be quite the opposite for me. I find the idea of escalating any sort of confronting situation like that only more triggering and upsetting because it doesn't contain nor control things which is important in maintaining stability. And so it would probably be a PTSD response of mine to fawn into submission when shouted at, especially if I were already zoned out / in freeze mode. And your husband's very respectful response points to this possibility. Or does he always use "Sir" when conversing with strangers?

 

[GWhizz]

Of course it can be a double-edged sword because we do need to develop the skills to stand up for ourselves in life also. But overall I admire your husband's rational and balanced response. He appeared very mindful and compassionate, well able to weigh up and recognise an appropriate response to prevent any further confrontation. I am however sorry that you and your children felt the lash back in the fallout of it. I am very guilty of venting my frustrations onto the one's I truly love and trust most. I guess it's partly because I know that they'll understand and accept me and know that ultimately I'm more annoyed at my own handling of situations and that PTSD affects how I deal with seemingly simple situations. Not that PTSD excuses treating our loved ones poorly ever. Maybe you've already done this, but it really helped my partner to come to a few therapy sessions with me as it helped him understand some of my behaviours/reactions that would totally conflict with his. And also to try and communicate as much as possible to promote mutual empathy.

*backlash

 

[anonymous]

Or does he always use "Sir" when conversing with strangers?

Excellent point @GWhizz . This may sound off the wall, but is there any possibility your husband, you and family accidentally walked into some type of sting operation that was related to the military? The reason I ask is that 1st your husband froze in the doorway, possibly meaning he was either shocked like he recognized an officer but was confused because they were dressed as a store clerk or just triggered by something from past trauma, 2nd his immediate polite and compliant verbal response indicates that it was possibly a higher ranking commanding officer (if he doesn't normally respond in that manner to an someone he sees as an equal or lesser rank than him) or it is simply out of respect for the other person, maybe even fear, possibly an elder?

I don't know very much about the military and how they do things, but just trying to look at it from a different viewpoint. I haven't read through all the other posts either.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Calling a stranger "sir" or "mam" after being in the military probably isn't even something he thinks about. It seems to be a reflex. I've noticed it a lot with my ex husband and my current partner who were both in the Army. Old habits die hard.

 

[Renestel]

SO many good replies on here-wanted to throw in my two cents....

So you think that there is no way he can say "Excuse me, my friend, but we won't be talked like that and I want to talk to your boss", he has to say "Thanks for the information, Sir" (when there was no information but just an angry rant) OR spoil this individuals face and there is no middle ground?

I can't help but feel there is part of you here that maybe subconsciously is angry with your husband for not being the type right now or as is that is willing to be openly defensive of your children and yourself. I hear you that you said I have tried to be the one to step up or speak up and he tells me to stop talking, but this is something as someone else said will make lots of sense in couples therapy. "Picking fights", usually happens with closer loved ones or trusted friends waaaayyy before strangers. You mentioned he came back and lashed out at the kids and maybe even you. This is a very normal thing. I went through this and I now feel so much appreciation for my husband for being understandable and loving enough to stick it through--as with all of you supporters. Thanks from all of us. But you even said you knew he was locking up, freezing, and showing symptoms at the mall. He was probably already a 9 out of 10. Too far gone. You just want to go through the motions, get the hell out of there at that point. Sometimes I don't even know what I am doing or saying I'm just trying to act normal and GO. So I agree with @lady truck driver, don't take him to the mall anymore. You and the kids go.

@tiredtexan: "the few times we are stressed at the same time, he has told me to calm down/focus on something else." So see, this is a very common symptom as well here. These men are not trying to be jerks or even tell you to stop talking, calm down, they are essentially telling THEMSELVES to calm down. You are either part of the situation or part of the stress and telling you this is telling themselves this as well. The best advice I can give to you in this situation is that my husband would say go to therapy together (ideally with the person he did his personal work with) because PTSD is like a foreign language. You have to learn the dialogue, learn the visual body language, and most of all, you have to be PATIENT. I SO understand you are frustrated, I am very sorry for that. But you do also need to realize that in stepping back, that arguing with him, asking him why he isn't defending everyone including himself all the time and even other verbal things out of anger that in a way attack his manhood/manliness, are NOT going to make the situation better at all. I wish you guys the best of luck:hug:

 

[at three]

Do you guys think not fighting back makes PTSD worse???

You think that guy at the store forgot how your husband responded and just think of him as an idiot standing in the door way?

I'm with your husband on this.. He simply forgave the person for not understanding.

Who knows maybe one day the gentleman will remember in a different light if you keep going back. If you don't go back he probably will never understand and be a lost sole.

The world is a better place with us in it. This4That lights me up, so your husband is right on this one

 

[Never_falter2]

Oh, I just tried to translate what he said in our language. It is not unusual to address strangers in a more formal way.
In our country we indicate he high rank of the individual we are talking too, by using different forms of words, for example "Ich danke Ihnen für die Info" instead of "Ich danke Dir für die Info".
It is polite to address any individual you encounter as if he has a higher rank, for example by using words which indicate a high status of the one you are talking to and also by other means. Would go to far into linguistics. It is not uncommon in a conversation that both participant use words that indicate the other one has a higher rank than himself.
What is however most unusual to treat an rude stranger with exquisite politesness, because the shop worker was neither polite nor formal.

So what happened here: The shop worker talked to my husband using words indicating my husband had a lower rank, but my husband answered back in a way indicating the shop worker had a higher rank than him.

 

[Never_falter2]

I do not "take my husband to the mall". After all he is a grown-up persons and decides if he wants to go to the mall. He used to struggle with crowds, which used to be very bad, but now it is much better. He fought very hard for that.
This day there was special offer at the mall available for him but not for me, so he decided to go. So actually he took me to the mall if you want it...
So we expected it to be crowded but it was much worse than we expected. Then I asked him if he wanted to leave but he did not. I applaud that and think it is brave. One cannot always run away. Very well done.

I do not like he snapped at the kids. Don't think it is fair he treats a mean stranger with more friendliness than his family... but... well, I am sorry I insulted him.

It is interesting somebidy mentioned the sufferer tells the spouse to calm down when the sufferer is stressed. Mine often does that. So he (and nobody else) is stressed and he goes "Okay, everybody please calm down". It think that's odd and sometimes a bit cute, but sometimes very annoying.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Mine does the same thing. Tells me to "settle down" or "relax" when he is the one freaking out. He feeds off my stress. If he thinks I'm stressed, hurt, angry, etc., it automatically sets him off.

Im slowly but surely learning to be zen about staying calm and keeping my reactions neutral. I should be able to levitate soon.

 

[scout86]

It is interesting somebidy mentioned the sufferer tells the spouse to calm down when the sufferer is stressed.

I don't like assuming that other people's responses mean the same as they would coming from me, but here's a thought for you.

Sometimes, a situation seems 'dangerous' to me. Probably doesn't seem that way to 'normal' people. Something in it is familiar and I'm reacting like 'now' is another time and place. I often don't realize I'm doing it. It's just "this feels dangerous" respond accordingly.

Usually, and to my distress, people around me who I care about and feel responsible for, don't get the 'danger' signal and they proceed to do 'stupid' things that, to me, make things even MORE dangerous. I might snap at them because, in my version of reality, I'm trying to keep us all 'safe'. I'm more likely to snap at someone I actually care about, or feel responsible for.

I'm not saying that's correct, or appropriate, or anything like that. Just that it, really and truly, is what can happen.

 

[Justmehere]

I don't think this was a battle worth fighting, but you seem driven for justice, to be protected. Perhaps to be validated? valued? You seem to be almost threatened by him "taking bullshit" from someone and not being more assertive with the store clerk or the neighbor or etc...

Perhaps these needs could be met in another way? Are there other ways he does express that he values you? Wants you to be safe and respected?

When you were asked why you didn't express your own complaints yourself, you wrote...

He told me several times "Shut up. I'll do the talking" and hushed me.

and

...and when I said "I am going to complain now" he stopped me.

You wanted to speak up for yourself. You didn't. Why? You say he stopped you, but unless he physically restrained you in an abusive way that you didn't mention, he didn't actually stop you. He did strongly (and kind of rudely) stood up to you, and cut you down.

Not the clerk, but you.

I think the real battle isn't between your husband and the store, but between you and your husband. Instead of going against him and speaking up for yourself, you have tried to cut him down, implying he isn't enough of a man, focusing on his pathology, pushing him to be more assertive...

...when you had the chance to be more assertive yourself. With him. With the store. But instead, you made the choice to defer to his way of doing things, like he deferred to the store clerk.

I don't think what you or he did was wrong, but I wonder if by focusing on this issue with the store and the neighbor might actually be a distraction from working through how you would like to be able to stand up to him. It could also be a cultural difference too. I could also be TOTALLY off. Please disregard if that is the case.

 

[Never_falter2]

Well, whenever I raised the topic he gave me that "talk to the hand" sign...
... and when I later said I was going to complain he stopped me. Yes. He said "Good luck" and took my car keys from me and held dangling above me and let me jump for them while he laughed at me and told me I looked sweet when I am angry. So I said "What are you going to do with keys" and he said "Who knows, maybe throw them away and we are stranded" and I did not want to find out if he was really going to do that.

So he sort of threw me around his neck then. He likes to carry me around his neck like a posh lady carries a fur coat. He said "Be a good sport, okay?". He often does it when we quarrel. Then he said he could not carry me to the car because of the pram but it would be unfair if I use it in my favour.

Put me back on my feet, gave me puppy eyes, said "Come on, be a sweetie. It's about time the children get home".

So, really, what was I supposed to do?