What Can Someone Say Or Do?

[Glara]

When you're depressed and isolating and telling someone this, what would be a helpful response? Especially if you're feeling suicidal?

 

[Fadeaway]

if it is someone you know well, it is best to have a plan before it gets to that point. Have them tell you what they want when they are in a better place.

If they are isolating let them know you are going to give them space, but they can reach out to you and you are there for them. If they reach out and it is to stressful for them, they can change their minds and you are ok with that too. After that the ball is in their court.

 

[Sandstone]

I think it would help me to be thanked for being brave enough to break out of the isolation and tell.
Then I'd like to be asked if I know what I want to do help it. If I do know, I'd like help to implement whatever. If I don't know, then maybe some suggestions, with the assurance that I can turn them down if they feel wrong.
Probably some reassurance that it was all right to have told, and that you will be around for as long as it takes.

I'm sorry that isn't clearer, thinking about it is hard for me. I'm also sorry you having that experience and need to ask.

 

[illusionist]

For me, it was a confirmation by text to tell me that they were there for me, on my terms, no pressure. A phone call alone, I could easily disregard as soon as I put the phone down....but a confirmation text somehow jolted my memory of the sincerity of the conversation. The text I was able to carry with me and revert back to when at my lowest point.

 

[Glara]

I did text. He didn't say he was suicidal this time, but I know he is and I knew this was coming. I think he won't tell me anymore when he's suicidal because he doesn't want to dump on me. But I know. I sent him a casual text and a few hours later he answered that he was really depressed and didn't want to talk to anyone. So I sent a response letting him know I'm here. I'd don't expect to hear back for a while.... Maybe not ever. But as of now he always tries to answer me. I won't text again for a while, but I don't know if I should check in at some point.

 

[joeylittle]

I think he won't tell me anymore when he's suicidal because he doesn't want to dump on me.

Is he right about this? Are you in a place, emotionally, where you can hold information about his depression without becoming overwhelmed, or feeling responsible for his safety?

This is important. When a supporter is in the 'sick with worry' state, they actually aren't always capable of hearing about deep depression. And, sometimes, the motivation isn't really to help - it's to get close to the other person again, no matter what.

I'm not saying that's what you are doing, at all - only you will know.

I can frame it the other way around, too - I want to be assured that the person I'm talking to is not going to be frightened by the conversation, and is not going to assume responsibility for my safety. Until I know this, I am not comfortable talking about what's really going on with me, when it's bad. And this goes for just people, crisis workers, my therapist, my psychiatrist, frankly even this message board.

The complicated thing from the listeners side is - of course they are going to feel responsible for your safety on a certain level. No-one wants to let their friend die. And so, I also need to accept that they are their own person with their own judgement, and they might act.

As long as I know they aren't emotionally wrapped up in my crisis, I at least feel like they are stable enough to hear what I need to say.

(This is also why I find it easier to use chat crisis instead of phone crisis support - if I don't have to hear the tone in someone's voice, it makes it easier for me to just trust that they are level. This may be why it's easier for him to communicate in text, if at all).

But please, do take just a little time and think about whether he's right about not dumping on you.

 

[Glara]

@joeylittle I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Of course I was upset the last time this happened. He told me thru text then too. I always let him know I'm here and he can talk to me but he says very little. He does let me know what's going on.. When he was hospitalized he posted on Facebook that he was on vacation, but he told me he where he really was. He told me briefly what caused his PTSD but never talked anymore about it. He just lets me know what's really going on.

He probably doesn't think I can handle it, and of course it would be hard to handle. I do understand depression and he knows that. There have been other times where's he just checked in and not said much else, but he's also said I may be the only friend he has. He knows I was upset the last time he told me when he had a plan. He has guns and his plans included his guns. They are very important to him. Yes, that scares me. I'm not sure if you're asking if he wants to talk but doesn't think I can handle it? I can handle the talking more than the not knowing, but I back off because I want to give him space.

 

[joeylittle]

Thank you for sharing that, @Glara - you're answering the right questions.

My honest assessment is this:

For you, knowing is bad (scary, intense) but not-knowing is worse (more scary, more intense)

For him, you knowing is worse (because he will feel responsible for your emotional load as well as his), and you not-knowing is better (doesn't feel guilt and worry over causing you to be scared and overwhelmed).

I did text. He didn't say he was suicidal this time, but I know he is and I knew this was coming. I think he won't tell me anymore when he's suicidal because he doesn't want to dump on me.

It would be good if you can avoid making assumptions about his state. You don't know that he is feeling suicidal - and more specifically, you don't know if he's having passive suicidal thoughts (which are very common) or more active suicidal thoughts (still common, and not always a precursor to suicidal action).

Because you reacted in the past, when he disclosed his suicidal thinking, he will not disclose to you again unless he wants intervention. I wanna be clear - you reacting is totally a human, legitimate, understandable, acceptable thing to do. But this is also why you are not going to be the safest place for him to feel like he can tell you where he's at, when it's bad.

Instead of focusing on drawing it out of him, I'd maybe suggest validating for him what is true - that you care deeply about his well-being, and you're on-deck to offer whatever is useful, whether it's talking about the depression, or talking about normal, distracting things; just that you'd like it if he was OK with keeping some line of communication open, but it doesn't have to be about the dark stuff. That you understand why it's hard to open up about stuff, and that you don't expect that of him, at all. You can offer up some crisis numbers or chat lines, without putting pressure on him (sometimes, just seeing the information can help a suicidal person reach out for help). And remind him that there's no pressure.

Don't do all that in an attempt to get him to think he can open up to you again about the dark stuff. Try and simply validate where he is at, and express the truth about where you are at.

Not everyone is capable of separating emotionally in such a way that allows them to listen to a suicidal person. You don't have to be that person.

And if you are truly worried for his safety, ever - call in a wellness check and make sure they know he has guns. The wellness check may result in him experiencing big feelings of betrayal; that's the unfortunate price one pays. But, better him alive than dead, is the bottom line.

I'm sorry - I know how hard this is. I'm only offering you what I know from being on the other end of these kinds of situations, and what I've learned from a lot of research and experience. But I can only know the outline of your situation and his, not nearly the whole picture. So take what's useful, and leave the rest.

 

[Glara]

Thank you so much @joeylittle, I appreciate anything you can tell me.

I know I shouldn't make assumptions, it's just that a few weeks ago he told me what was going on, a family member very ill, probably won't make it. The last time he was really bad was when he lost a pet. So while he didn't tell me this time, I just know in my gut.

I'm not going to contact him for a while, but I do want to check in at some point to let him know I'm still around. I'll just have to play that by ear.

I'm curious @joeylittle what type of conversation you could have with someone when you are at that point? Not even a partner or friend, but a therapist? You worry about your therapist's reaction? You don't feel confident that they are trained to handle it? When he was telling me his plan I offered to call a hotline for him but of course he said no. So I asked if he was telling his therapist everything he was telling me, he said he was. I'd just like to be able to respond in a way that's helpful.

 

[Justmehere]

If he tells you he is suicidal, then listen, don't judge, thank him for sharing and reaching out, and ask him to do something to reach out to a professional for support. To call a hot line, to go to the ER, to tell his therapist, and ask for confirmation he has done that.

Then, no matter what, it's really good if you could call a professional as well, a hotline, not instead of him calling a hotline, but to make sure someone who is trained to assess this stuff knows about it and can look at it objectively and see things people close to a suicidial person may not see.

I have had several friends who have been suicidial who have reached out to me in a suicidial state. I have lost my roommate to sucide. I have been suicidial myself.

I have training on how to handle it from my old job, but even I don't ever try to handle it all by myself. It's not healthy for me or really the other person. I always reach out to someone else to support me in handing it.

That all being said, I think the fact that you are so concerned he is suicidial when he hasn't said that is a sign that this is weighing heavily on you. He may not be suicidal at all. I have also been so depressed I couldn't communicate with a friend, but I also wasn't at all sucidial.

I remember the circumstances you describe and I can see why you are concerned. He has had some more treatment under his belt and may be more resourced and supported to handle this. His treatment team is likely aware as well, based on what you have said about him being open with them.

If you want to reach out, it's good to say you are there for him. If your concerns continue, call the hotline. No really. Not for him but for you. They really helped me sort out how to respond to one friend of mine that I wasn't sure about. They actually helped me know better when it was time to wait it out and not.

You are a kind and considerate soul - I can't think of things you would say that would make it drastically worse. For me, the things that people say that make is harder are things like "look on the bright side" and "just stop thinking about it" and "how could you even say that?" and "what has helped in the past?" and other comments that make me feel invalidated or belittled.

What is more helpful is listening, and validating that the pain is real - and that hope is real too.

 

[joeylittle]

I'm curious @joeylittle what type of conversation you could have with someone when you are at that point? Not even a partner or friend, but a therapist? You worry about your therapist's reaction? You don't feel confident that they are trained to handle it?

Yeah. It's different for different people. My particular relationship to suicidal ideation is a thing I understand very well, because I managed it for many, many years. I have all sorts of ways of navigating it, and I'm incredibly self aware. Also, after having a breakdown and losing complete control over myself, learning that it was possible for that to happen - I have a lot more respect for both totally honest disclosure AND for the people who are willing to believe me, and not assume that I'm un-self-aware.

It's not so much that they aren't trained - it's more that advanced crisis assessment is a real art, and there's a whole lot to it. It takes a knowledge base, and experience. I am not comfortable discussing suicidal thoughts with someone who does not have that training. Because ultimately, a crisis worker is to make sure the individual stays alive. And if that means a wellness check, then that's what it means. When someone is in possession of a high-fatality method, like a gun, the requirement to intervene goes way up. If it's a man with a gun, statistically, he's in danger. I'm not telling you this to scare you - actually, more so that you can know that if you were to call him in, they would take you very seriously.

If you want to reach out, it's good to say you are there for him. If your concerns continue, call the hotline. No really. Not for him but for you. They really helped me sort out how to respond to one friend of mine that I wasn't sure about. They actually helped me know better when it was time to wait it out and not.

This is perfect advice.

What is more helpful is listening, and validating that the pain is real - and that hope is real too.

And this. You can't actually help, in the way of 'convince him it's a bad idea'. You can let him talk, and tell him that his pain is real, and you are willing to help hold it by listening.

 

[Glara]

Unfortunately, he says he has no one to talk to. I've told him he can talk to me but he rarely does. He tells small pieces of information, just enough so I know what's going on I guess. But he doesn't share too much. When he's down I'm not sure if it's better to try to talk or let him be. Usually I let him know I'm here and he can call or text anytime.

I'm very well aware of the statistics of suicidal men and guns. Before I knew about him having PTSD I couldn't understand why he was so into guns. Part of me thinks he collects them to feel safe. He likes to appear intimadating. (I knew him years before that). I also think how each gun would be like if he decides to use it on himself.