What Is 'big' Enough To Leave For Good?

[Philippa]

That's very possible...in fact, while I was typing that post I did catch myself thinking "Are you sure about that?"

I cannot think of anyone so far, but then, I haven't been in a relationship with a guy for a very long time now so I've probably forgotten. It's worth spending some time thinking back over that one...thanks.

 

[Philippa]

I'm having trouble posting at my end right now, for some reason. It's a shame there isn't a delete post function. Maybe that could be my "What would you change about the forum if you could?" input.

 

[shell]

Really I believe you have to do what feels right for you, my parents made me extremely anxious, and continued to emotionally abuse me.

I cut off my parents earlier this year, the best decision I ever made, but it comes with a price. Tomorrow is fathers day, but there will be no contact, and I am sad about that.

What most brought home the enormity of the decision I made, was the death of one of the mother of a collegue at work who I liked and looked after my son on occassion. It was like my own parents had died, I grieved the loss of my own parents because to me they are now dead, I will never see them again. It is a very permanent decision to me, I will never see them again, and it's very final.

 

[Philippa]

I kept telling myself my father is dead, always in my head I would hear "Dad's dead" and I think I have been mourning him for the past few years now...and it was disturbing me, but I think that was my way of pushing myself towards this decision. I feel that he has come to accept it, though he has been very desperate to get me back in the fold...and tried lots of different ways to do that.

With my mother, she has actually displayed what I think is genuine admittance and acknowledgement of me and their part to play in why I have felt that I have no other choice but to do this, and communicated with me, from the heart in a way that was very healing for me. She also agreed to have a look at a book I recommended she read about emotional abuse and said that they both need to change...which I was astonished by. She is the one who normally buries her head in the sand, and now she seems to be admitting to that, and acknowledging that she needs to change.

I am not so naive as to think that just because she says this that she actually will change. She has been notorious for making promises all through my life that she has not kept, so I will believe it when I see it, but her confession made me at least want to give her a chance to show that she is serious...and if she isn't and just said that to get me to come back, then I will leave her behind without any hesitation, along with the rest of them.

I keep seeing fathers day ads up everywhere, and a part of me stubbornly clings to the "fat chance he's getting anything from me" but a bigger part of me does feel sad that I will not be speaking to him again. I know he is sad too, I'm just not sure if it's because he has lost me, or that he's lost CONTROL of me?

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Nobody is going to (fully) understand. Period.

This is the line that my father always tells me when I look for external validation. He's not trying to be harsh, but rather help me find solace within myself. I say it to you as it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, it matters what YOU think. Nobody lived your life, and as such they need to be smacked for being so judgmental. People THINK they know what they'd do in the same situation, but you never really do until you're actually in it for yourself.

I believe you referred to a response of mine from another thread in your OP. (The part about my friend shutting out her family). She's a lesbian, and very out about it. So I really don't think that's why she shut them out. Coming out is a big deal, but based on the conversation my mom had with her mom, I really don't think that's the issue. That's why my mind jumped to her father being creepy and him possibly having done something to her. I don't know why my mind jumped to that, other than her step-father always creeped me out, and nobody else has ever given me that feeling, not even my own abuser.

I've gotten crap from both sides. "Oh don't shut your family out, they're the only family you've got and when they're gone (dead), you'll regret it". Or... "You're an idiot for still being in contact with your father who used to hit you". (On the father bit, he actually apologized sincerely, and I've been able to move forward. No hitting has happened since I was 16. Talk about not believing that people can change...)

I don't think you're being petty or cutting people out too easily. I think you're learning to set boundaries, and doing so can always seem awkward as in the past, many of us have had wonky, wishy-washy boundaries. Firming them up and drawing lines in the sand makes us feel strange, like we're doing something wrong. But nope, we're not!

 

[Philippa]

I am learning to place boundaries, that's true.

Mine have been violated in so many different ways and because of the way my father, and brothers, and people along the way have treated me, it has caused me to second guess myself...which I really hate because I know in my gut and from feeling in my body that what they are doing is wrong and harmful, and that trusting my own judgement and my self again, after being sexually assaulted, has been the hardest thing to learn.

I wasn't sexually abused as a child, and I did once have a sense of normal boundaries. My abuse was systematic and subtle...over my whole childhood. It was invalidation and minimizing things which contributed to me second guessing myself, so that now I feel I need to get other people to reassure me at times that what I am doing is ok, right for me...even after I have had that calm voice inside tell me it is the right thing to do...later on I second guess. I wish I could turn my brain off sometimes, so it wouldn't keep going over all this stuff.

People acting in violating ways as though they are entitled to, can really mess with a persons mind. They normalize what isn't normal at all, so it brainwashes the person who is being violated, whether it be physically, emotionally or psychologically.

Yes, I was referring to your post ScaredofLonely, and it wasn't your fault of course, but it did spin my back into thinking about all this...that's just where I'm at right now. One day I'm perfectly ok and feel justified with my decision and don't feel turmoil about it, and the next I am second guessing myself again and all the input from the people around me starts to come back, supporting the messages I have already in me that think it is wrong of me. Thankyou so much for affirming the truth for me there, it really helped me to feel that it isn't wrong to draw a line in the sand...it's what I have to do to respect myself and protect myself.

It's hard. My friend who has been estranged from her parents for 20 years, assured me that it would pass, because I am still energetically connected to my parents, as we've all been so hard wired having spent so many years around them.

It's not realistic to just cut from them without feeling turmoil about it. It wasn't what I ever thought would happen in my family unit. I wanted to be friends with my parents, when I was a child...I wanted to make lots ofmoney so I could give back to them for the life I'd been given, set them up for life.

I loved them so much and wanted to be there when they died, my father especially. I wanted to hold his hand and comfort him because I know he is so terrified to die...terrified to not be in control, when there really is no such thing.

 

[Philippa]

This is the line that my father always tells me when I look for external validation. He's not trying to be harsh, but rather help me find solace within myself. I say it to you as it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, it matters what YOU think. Nobody lived your life, and as such they need to be smacked for being so judgmental. People THINK they know what they'd do in the same situation, but you never really do until you're actually in it for yourself.

When I spoke to my youngest brother two weeks ago, he was making a rather harsh judgement about a woman I knew who had been raped for days after responding to a gumtree ad for a room to rent. There was no room to rent, it was just some sick rapist placing an ad for a victim to come to him...like ordering a pizza!:sick:

My brother called her a dumb bitch for not calling the police and taking them to the house, or for not going round there with a chainsaw and hacking the guy to bits...like he would if it were him. I tried to say to him just what you wrote here, but he wouldn't listen.

It's even more evidence to me that I can't have him in my life anymore either. I kidded myself that he was 'salvagable' but he's not...he's just an utter asshole.

 

[Philippa]

I just received a phone call from my mother, who tried to talk me into meeting with her and dad and my brother for lunch. She pulled all the tricks. "Me and your father...we're at that stage in life where....you just need to forgive him Philly. I think we all just need to hug...we're a family" and then went on about how she knows him and how hard he is to be around.

Really? We're a family now. How is it that I seem to be the only one who recognises that we haven't been a family for years. They all seem more like strangers to me, and yet they keep acting like I just need to get over it.

I went silent at my end and said that I am working on forgiving him, but that doesn't mean I want to be in his company, and that I need to be around people who are good for me to be around, and he isn't. She was still making it about him and her and their needs.

Her tone was one of being tired of it, and then she went on about how she can't stand people at her work who fight and don't even try and communicate...and I got the distinct impression she was speaking about me. I also got the feeling that she judged me as pathetic once we hung up! I ended the conversation as soon as she started in pressuring me to come to this lunch thing with dad, and I could tell she was reading my reaction, and switched to saying that if I'm not ok with that that I can meet with her later...but I'm not even sure I want to meet with her now?

I asked her if she had bought the book she said she wanted to buy and read, that I recommended, and she said she hadn't and then asked me where I bought mine from. I said it was ages ago and I can't remember, but she can buy it at any bookstore or online. Her voice kind of stammered when she asked this, and I really don't think she's interested...in other words, she just told me what I wanted to hear at the time, and has no real intention of reading the book or changing, as she said she did.

So that's pretty much it.

 

[freakofnurture]

does that mean I have to give my time to someone who doesn't treat me well, because i know that people who have had terrible sexual abuse happen and still hang out with their parents?

Dude, I don't know about you, but I don't even have to give my time to my bestest of best friends if I don't feel up to it. It is my time, my energy, I'm in total and absolute control and I have even the last, tiniest bit of right to do with it whatever I f*cking damn well please.

Of course I still have to live with the consequences of my generosity or avarice, which is why I only invest heavily in things that are directly or indirectly beneficial to myself.

In practice this means that I give a lot of time and energy to people who I like, who enjoy being in a reciprocating relationship with me, people who are as much a source of useful, fun or interesting things as I am for them.

And I try to cut off people who consistently make me feel like shit, consistently tire me, consistently annoy me and consistently refuse to do their part in the implicit reciprocation agreement.

If I don't look forward to associating with someone, I don't associate with them. And that's for their benefit, also, because I'm not fun when I'm annoyed because I feel like I'm throwing my efforts into a bottomless pit of non-mutuality.

EDIT: This whole 'social obligations' stuff is still sticky, though, and I, too, have wasted years on my abusers and some terrible 'friends' just because I didn't think that I had a 'legitimate' reason to cut them off. Ah well. We live, we learn.

 

[Philippa]

It was rhetorical.:laugh:

Yes, I feel the same way...I was just having a bit of a vent as I sometimes fall into second guessing my decision. My mother has just made the decision much easier though.

 

[Philippa]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the day when it finally does sink in and my experience with them over rides the social obligation crap that I know is just programmed tapes looping around in my head dictating my every move.

I still find it hard to emotionally overcome, even when I can see what is happening. I'm not emotionless, and I do still need to learn how to turn off my empathy and stay in my own self and feelings, without getting caught up in old habits of thinking I need to pander to everyone elses needs before my own.

Looking after my own needs is my #1 priority now.

 

[freakofnurture]

I don't think that you have to turn off your empathy at all. It's completely okay to acknowledge that these people have reasons and problems and their own suffering and that they might actually be suffering more because you cut them off.

What you need to turn off is the idea that it is your job to do something about the way they feel.

It doesn't matter what reasons they had. There are no good reasons for abusing and neglecting the child that you are responsible for.

Remember what I said about the consequences of how you spend your time? Well, they get to taste the consequences of spending their time behaving terribly towards you.

It's not your job to protect them from the consequences of their behaviours. It's your job to protect yourself from them.

What you are trying to do is akin to going to prison for the person who beat you to a pulp because you know they would have a hard time in prison.