Poll What Is The Workplace Really Like For Employees With PTSD?

[PTSD sufferer]

I guess I am curious about this topic...I don't work because one of my primary traumas was work related. I have to say that HR did not offer me support or the union, so I may be biased. But, from my own experience and significant education, I know that HR are not about helping employees, rather about the legalities of protecting managers and organisation. Why is it that CSR and ethics is such a big problem in business today...?? My feelings are that employees are treated like liabilities rather than assets and human beings with rights.

Firstly, there are new laws in most countries (US not yet) that are designed to stop workplace bullying and ensure CSR/ Ethical conduct in business. Yet, HR does not mandate education/ training around these 'rights of employees'. So, employees are kept in the dark (deliberately to reduce the number of potential lawsuits that a manager or company can face when they misbehave).

HR are generally expected to create the culture of an organisation. If managers do not understanding how to behave with civility and understanding, then getting in late or going part-time will make no difference.
The thing is, you need to empower your employees and not just managers to create a culture of transparency and understanding and pull those who create hostile work environments up.

If you have PTSD or not, a hostile work environment would cause lower productivity levels, late arrivals and increases in sick days. So, maybe it is about generally doing a better job at reducing these hostile environments for everyone that is needed, and not just for those with PTSD.

Considering the unethical, immoral and hostile environments can cause stress and PTSD, then surely it is not about adding to the list of things you can do for those that suffer, but about HR doing its job better and more pro-active job to prevent such issues in the first place, rather than an insincere list of 'benefits' when you have PTSD. So, my opinion is that HR needs to get better at CSR and ethics, rather than make a list of things a company is willing to do for the disabled.

Those with PTSD, have different triggers and different needs, so doing a blanket list of things a PTSD person could have is not helpful at all. If HR are going to consider a PTSD persons needs, then that should be as determined by the person with PTSD (and discussed with their T and not HR). Discrimination is a big problem, and obviously, the illness has been used in some cases (in this thread) to make a sufferers life even more difficult. Surely a sensible HR person would realise this tactic and put a stop to it....but they don't because those that complain are liabilities, not intellectual capital, human beings and valued assets...

People with PTSD can be very productive members of a team, and often the most valued team members. Their disability is not the problem, the environment is.

So, fix the environment by applying CSR and ethical principles and have the guts to educate employees about their rights in a transparent way. Investigate grievances thoroughly, and with an open mind. Go beyond the legal minimum of protecting the powerful (manager and organisation), and dialogue with the employees (with or without PTSD). Fundamentally change what HR does, because currently, there is no 'Human' in HR. Just 'Resources' that are kept in the dark about their rights and treated like liabilities.

 

[Wanting a life]

I agree with you on several points, PTSD sufferer.

there are new laws in most countries (US not yet) that are designed to stop workplace bullying and ensure CSR/ Ethical conduct in business.

Yes - my German sister-in-law recognized my situation as "mobbing" right away. Although she is fluent in English and a psychologist, she said that the whole concept of mobbing is very well-known in Europe in general.

I also feel you are SO correct in saying:

People with PTSD can be very productive members of a team, and often the most valued team members. Their disability is not the problem, the environment is.

I can do awesome work and love to! I just can't take the work environment. Big conflict.

 

[PTSD sufferer]

Bless you 'Wanting a Life' for taking a stand against Goliath. May you find much peace and, when you are ready, a work environment that appreciates what you do. Someone with such strength, courage and morality would be an asset to any team! You inspire me!

 

[Loveneverfails]

I have had a very mixed experience in the workplace. It seems on occasion I have run into nothing short of tyrants, but in other cases I have met some people who were a delight to work with. I tend to make friends easily with my coworkers to the point where we spend a lot of time outside of the job together. So with those of my own rank, it becomes a very tight knit, loyal family in almost every situation. We cover for each other, double check each other's work and over all do what we can to help one another stay out of trouble.

But being in the property industry, especially in sales, there is a lot of competition and drama. It's mostly female, and I've always found female politics to be a completely different language than mine! So it is hard for me to find a way to communicate to my bosses and coworkers that are female in a way they don't find either unrelatable, or aggressive. I was for all intents and purposes raised by my eldest brother, so during my formative years was taught how to think and behave like 'one of the guys'. My PTSD had translated into making me a very intense individual. I was a perfectionist in the work place. High strung, I suppose, as I wanted to do my best and highly disliked being sidetracked. This made me intimidating to some, to the point where I was told I argued. To be honest, I'm not sure I didn't. I am more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, but when I know I'm right and I have facts and laws to back me up...I tend to be more than a little hard headed about my point of view.

In the beginning my PTSD also made it hard to handle being in crowds. When I worked in a restaurant setting, this proved impossible and I called out more than any employee should. When I went into the more controlled setting of property management, the problem was being alone in the apartments I was showing with a stranger. Even though I took every precaution I was taught to take, it still caused a lot of anxiety. As my defense, I learned to fake it like a pro. It was even more stressful to do it that way, but it allowed me to do my job. Still, it took me years to learn and I floated from job to job, calling out when I just couldn't face another day surrounded by people.

I've had some truly horrible bosses in the industry, I know my non PTSD ex-coworkers would agree. Even in the restaurant industry I had trouble. I earned a reputation for being insubordinate because I sometimes refused to do things that were irrelevant to the job(or a waste of time), though I have been blessed that a few of my bosses were able to find that when I felt myself and my coworkers were being treated fairly, I'd do just about anything I was asked. I know it isn't a successful mindset for the workplace, but for whatever reason I CANNOT work for a boss I don't respect or trust. I do think my PTSD has something to do with that. It isn't a matter of just keeping my nose down and doing my job, for me I HAVE to be surrounded by people I know and can trust.

I think the emotional intensity of my work ethic makes me hard to deal with. Everything is very dogmatic for me still and in the world of business that just doesn't equate to success. Everything feels like it hangs on the edge, waiting for something to fall. I know that's the stress talking, in my opinion PTSD makes it nearly impossible to enjoy being in the work place.

 

[PTSD and Me]

I'm so sorry to hear about everyone's experiences in the workplace, I wish I had known more about this when I was writing the study. Maybe I will write another one specifically related to PTSD. I have more experience now with the topic than I did at first. Unfortunately, I have to agree that sometimes HR is woefully unaware of their obligations to the employees. Working in HR myself, I take the view that the best way to protect the company from lawsuits is not to be stupid to your employees. They won't sue, or unionize if they are treated with a basic amount of human decency, respect and dignity. In my role, I end up doing a lot of education for HR Execs regarding protected classes of employees, inclucing veterans and people with disabilities. Being a female with a disability myself, I find it much easier to empathize with employees with all kinds of disabilities, particularly hidden ones.

I really think that all most people with PTSD need to function effectively in the workplace is a flexible schedule, a private place to work with a door that can be closed, and common courtesy stuff like knocking before you enter a person's office, or announcing yourself before you come up behind them. I know these things have helped me tremendously. And I know that even when I am in a place where I don't want to be around other people, I can go to work, turn on music and close my door and I can still have a productive work day. Sometimes at the end of a work day like that, I even feel better than I did before I went to work. Not every job has been like the one I have now though. I used to work in a call center where people would call me screaming obscenities and threatening to kill me. I started having anxiety attacks from hearing phones ring. Not good for a huge call center environment.

What do you all think about those types of accomodations? Are there other things that would be helpful for you that I didn't mention? Of course, I think none of us should have to work in a place where people talk about their guns and coming to kill us, but I would say that should be true of people who don't have PTSD too. I honestly don't know why some managers / HR pros don't take care of these things. Maybe being in HR, they know I know they can't ignore things like that with me, that I know their obligations, my rights and what to do if someone doesn't make sure I am taken care of as an employee. What are your thoughts?

 

[Philippa]

Oh yes, these are things I didn't think of actually. I would have loved it if I could have closed my door, so I didn't have to have the smell of the lab come in or hear the grating sound of the beeping from the computers, which just wouldn't stop sometimes, and was so loud.:( Those things really triggered me, and it made my colleagues think that I was judging them for it, but that wasn't the case at all. The head scientist not being able to stop talking for the whole day was also rather annoying...but you get that.

They would also put the phone ringing volume up full volume because they couldn't hear it when I wasn't there, on certain days, and wouldn't remember to turn it down when I was there, so I would get the fright of my life when it rang. These little things would have made my life there so much better and easier...but they weren't to know. They were much more de-sensitized, and if I wasn't so unwilling to go back to unemployment, I would have been better off leaving and not staying as long as I did, because it did nothing for my mental health.

I worked in a call centre as well. They are good in some ways for people with ptsd as you can sort of switch off, but yeah, abusive callers aren't pleasant. I had a few rude ones as well...and they call US rude for calling during dinner. There's nothing saying they have to actually answer the phone. They could just ignore it...but they don't.

Threatening to kill you is a bit over the top though?? I never had that one. I felt sorry for people who worked at the front desk of the social security offices though...THEY had it rough, and I never would have handled working there. I witnessed workers getting spat on by angry people in line, and heard storied of workers being stalked to their cars and beaten after their shifts...computers being thrown through windows by irate people in desperate situations. Outrageous stuff like that.

I think those are important suggestions. Thanks.

 

[maddog]

Hi PTSD and Me.

I think this is a really useful and important discussion, and one which is very close to me, as I have grappled for a long time now to continue to work full time in and around the constrictions of my trauma and have discovered that there are simply so many variables, both human and environmental, that impact enormously on the overall quality of the work experience and the sufferer's quality of life as a result, given how much of our lives we do actually spend in our workplaces.

As a general theme, I believe that the type and extent of reasonable accommodations is very dependent on the workplace environment and the person's role within it. I work in a workplace in which PTSD and trauma-related conditions are sadly prevalent, and on the whole my workplace is extremely supportive and accommodating.

That said, the actual design of our office hasn't been conducive to my having an office to myself as was the ideal scenario, and so we have tried to rearrange seating configurations so that at least I do not have my back to the door, am in a corner and out of direct circulation and the worst of the noise and activity etc. I use that simply as an example of how often we have to take the ideal scenario, look at the practicalities and find a happy medium that is helpful, yet achievable with the available resources.

The nature of my work is also potentially very triggering for me, which is another issue that required open discussion with my management team, my T and I. It has helped to ensure that there are a small and select number of trusted safe people who are aware of my situation and can assist in subtle ways to keep an eye on how I'm travelling and to gently intervene to help me out of triggering situations or conversations if they need to. Sometimes it's just the little things - changes in conversation, helping me to physically leave an area if I'm getting stressed and disorientated, that can make such a difference, along with the safety net principle of knowing that there are safe people close by if I need them.

I am extremely fortunate that my primary T is also our workplace psych and it has been really helpful to have him speak with my management team and I regularly about how things are travelling and what changes or accommodations we may need to make that are reasonable.

I guess as general themes I would encourage both sufferers and their management to try to have regular and open dialogue, try to involve the sufferer's treatment team or professional in decision making where appropriate and possible, be prepared to consider all alternatives and explore other options and recognize the fact that while some aspects of work may not be as easily achievable as they used to be, there may in fact be other areas in which the person can excel and can remain as productive as they were previously, though perhaps in a different way.

An excellent discussion.

Maddog

 

[PTSD sufferer]

PTSD and Me, I agree with all of your comments. It is nice to hear how you think about employees and that is very refeshing and hopeful for people like me.

As maddog articulated better than I could, I would also add the 'open dialogue' idea into the mix with trusted people. I also agree with maddog that discussions between sufferer and T need to happen to address concerns that they can to help cope with life in the workplace in general.

I would have liked to have an open planned office, it was on the cards, but it was stalled for years by the boss. If it was open plan, then maybe it would have helped to reduce the severity of what happened to me or at least others could see what was happening more clearly. I made many requests to be moved, all of which where intercepted and squashed. Until the day I quit.

Quite time was important for me to do my job, even without full blown PTSD. This was not allowed, as I was being constantly interrupted and yelled at, fired repeatedly, harassed, threatened (with a letter opener). Others also complained about the bosses yelling to HR, and nothing happened. I reported my little heart out, and nothing happened. I was told by the chain of command that I had no rights, and that I was the problem and was on probation - one honest HR girl confirmed that I was not on probation and I was well respected and took my complaint. She also discovered the declaration that my boss had a mental illness. She was fired for refusing to destroy this document. She was fired for trying to help me...I blame myself for her firing.

I went outside to cry - everytime he did this, towards the end of my time there. I didn't want him to see that he was winning and that I was weak and incapable of dealing with him. I blame myself for being so young and not knowing the laws (and different mental illnesses that were dangerous) that could have protected me. Instead of protecting me, they protected my bosses because of mental illness and they were scared of what the bosses could do if they sided with the employee who was baring it all - I have a mental illness now, and that hurts, but not as much as the sub-human way they treated me. So my initial post was a bit emotionally charged and I apologise for that.

I guess, what I want to add is, if someone has PTSD and if they make a complaint it is best to look into it, sometimes we react emotionally, but sometimes there is good cause for us to react emotionally. And, educating employees of their rights is so important - right to union representation, right to file grievances, right to a safe workplace. I was denied all of these basic rights, and believed that the company knew better than me and was a 'good' company, so I tried harder to please, tried harder to be better at my job - that just made things worse between management and I.

In response to your last question about whether you were treated better because you work in HR and know the laws and your rights - I would say probably yes. Its harder to deny someone their rights, if that person knows their rights. That is why I always give people in bad situations information on their rights. I even encourage my hubby to inform his staff of their rights, and procedures for grievances. He listens to me, bless him, because he knows how much doing that means to me

...getting teary now, told myself I wouldn't ever speak of this stuff again...but if it helps a cause I am passionate about...well the tears are not in vein are they?

Thank you PTSD and Me, for trying to make a difference to the lives of those with PTSD in the workforce.

 

[TSG]

I function really well at work since work is a welcome distraction. Boss is a crazy bitch, though!! (I am self-employed, lol)

I will never, ever, EVER work for anyone else or outside of my own home, ever again. People, in general, are just mean and I can't do it. Life was hard enough in junior high and high school and college and I found no difference in the workplace. There are only two groups, I have seen. A: Mean people who make themselves feel better by destroying other people in word and deed while surrounded by insecure suck-ups (B) who can't live without approval and acceptance from the group A. Its just not for me, ever again...EVER!

 

[712xx]

PTSD and me said: He started yelling at me, "Don't play the victim!"

I totally relate to this, and it is like a slap in the face. I hope you or anyone else doesn't get this treatment often. I'd like to say never, but know that is unrealistic. If they were educated about ptsd, they would never even think to make such a comment. I say "educated", but I really mean "understood". Even many who are seemingly educated don't really understand.

PYSD and me asked: I also wonder, have you ever considered telling an employer? Why did you come to the conclusion that you should not.

My first post-ptsd employer was also one of my college professors and advisor. Our classes had a lot of practical group work, and I really do much better on my own. However, part of the grade involved how well we worked in the group. If I'm having an ok day, I'm able to ignore any uncomfortable situations and just get through it (after all, I did that most of my childhood -- am good at denying my own comfort to survive). I can conform ... to a point. However, there was a guy in one of my classes that bugged me at every opportunity (hindsight tells me he liked me and was trying to get my attention).

He was a relatively good looking guy, a little older than the normal college age -- maybe mid to upper 20's. He should have been more mature (at least I thought he should have been), but in class he'd kick my chair, bump into me, shove my arm while I was writing -- just really stupid juvinile things. At first I laughed it off (on the outside) and hoped he was just acting the fool for a laugh and he'd stop. Well, he didn't stop. The more he would invade my personal space the harder it got to stay polite. I'd tell him, "come on, cut it out, now, I'm really trying to work". He would for a few minutes, then start up again.

The last time he did it (I made sure it was the last time) it was on a particularly rough day. I was tired, had been up studying most of the night, and there was a mid-term coming up. I may have been pms-ing as well, lol. My nerves were like a tightened rubber band, and it shot off straight away when he entered my personal space and knocked my arm hard, startling me, and caused my carefully measured work to smear.

I had no time to stop myself -- my arm (seemed like it had a will of its own) swung back and knocked him square in the side of his head repeatedly for several seconds. I had no thought behind it, my arm just did it. I guess my subconscious took over. He had the nerve to say, "god, I thought you were cool" ... as if I was overreacting. Maybe it was an over reaction for that one incident, but I fail to see how it is on the whole, as HE was the one constantly crossing MY personal space without permission.

He didn't sit near me after that. He even had this attitude the rest of the semester like he was the victim. The following semester (he wasn't in anymore classes) we had more off campus activities during a fe wother classes in my major with the same professor. I told him I was uneasy about it and told him about 'the incident' with the other student. Told him I had ptsd and over reactions like that may happen and wanted to prevent it. So told it it would be better for me if I did those outside activities on my own.

He refused, and ... well, it is a long story. The gist of it is, he let me sit in the front of the van in the passenger seat, but was always making passive-aggressive comments and BRINGING UP the fact I had issues. He (a professor mind you) also gossiped about me to other students ... he did this with many people so I wasn't the only one. That is so not helpful. Of course, he wasn't trying to be helpful, just a jerk. I don't need to be reminded. I always was really regretful I told him anything. The very last semester after that was miserable. If I hadn't been so close to graduation, I would have dropped the class to take it with a different professor.

I felt that maybe if I never said anything about having ptsd, he wouldn't have had a fun reason to bug me and would have left me alone. Bullies sniff out the weak people (I don't consider myself weak, but I think the general population do think it is only weak people who develop ptsd, because of lack of understanding about the condition).

 

[JoeNavy]

So how do I handle it when I am the boss -or at least s supervisor of a handfull of people? I try to never show anything....one of my female staff saw me in the middle of a panic/anxiety/crying episode. She never asked, and I never said anything. I'm sure they all think I'm nuts now!

 

[Anna]

Great.. I guess the bullies realise when you are weak. I have started to let the bullying at work get to me. It was really bad today. I really am dreading Monday.