What's The Big Deal

[NIKI]

Just because of the way life was ended isnt going to cause more suffering is it?

I think so. If a person dies of natural causes after a long life, people tend to celebrate what their life was. Death is expected after a long life...though of course there is much saddnes. If a child dies, someone dies in an accident or by their own hand absolutly the suffering would be so so much greater!

 

[Tinyflame]

I have a bit of a unique perspective- though not necessarily an important one.

I have tried S- survived (who knows why?, survived 'much', in fact, and have no clue 'why' for that, either, really), but in the long run was glad of that specifically because it would (at that time) have caused terrible unnecessary suffering for my mom.

After many years without it, I had SI come back with a vengence. 'Why' I survived that, specifically, I also have no idea. But it did get better.
I also stumbled (I mean literally) over a book (at that time) called "How I stayed Alive While My Brain Was Trying To Kill Me". -So true.
And it also got a lot better (and made a lot more sense) when viewed as just another symptom of ptsd.

I have a family (genetically) thaty has pretty much all died off of cancer- I'm long 'overdue' (statistically), at my age, but I'm still 'here'.
I did not get married, and specifically chose not to have children, to a great degree because of that. For me, personally, I never wanted to have to leave a spouse dealing with (my) death, whether by cancer or suicide, because I have gone through others' deaths, nor to leave children especially having to deal with it, or a spouse left to raise them alone- with risk of 'no one', if they themself died, let alone if I passed a 'cancer gene' to my children.

I do truly believe suicide causes gross suffering for anyone who loves you- a spouse, family, etc- for children it is and would be absolutely devastating, and they would blame themself, as would most parents.

I do believe in God- but a compassionate one- and I don't think He'd give anything but compassion to those at their wit's end.
I definitely have more fear of 'living' than 'dying'.
I also don't believe that it is often 'selfish'- especially when you consider dissociation, and/ or constricted thinking. Constricted thinking alone indicates (anyone) can't see a full and clear picture, at the time. Let alone necessarily make rational decisions in their (or other's) best interests.
When I was suicidal, sometimes I couldn't remember even other people 'existed'- no memory at all. And sometimes when I could remember they 'existed', I couldn't retrieve a single memory of time spent together- just a 'blank', no matter how hard I tried.

But maybe that's the point? When you combine being at your wit's end, without purpose, and having little fear of 'worse', suicide doesn't look like such a bad idea. In fact, feeling like a burden, it's a preferable one.

But you also have the right to make other choices- removing what is toxic and replacing it with what you love. Because all any one of us has is 'this' moment- nothing beyond that is guaranteed.

I don't mean to sound preachy- and I do 'get it'. 'Intimately'. But I do believe you're here for a reason- posting here on this forum already helps so many people. The fact that you understand makes you invaluable to those who need that understanding but are surrounded by those who don't understand.

And I'm guessing, that you likely do have people who love you very much, but do not know how to help, but that would be devastated if you were gone, just as you would be if someone you loved died.

I like the saying a veteran on here said- "Suicide is not a treatment option".

Needless to say, I hope this alleviates for you, as it's truly a horror to live with, that you can talk to someone, find concrete ways to not have to feel like this, and that you find peace.

 

[The Albatross]

I like the saying a veteran on here said- "Suicide is not a treatment option".

Priceless Junebug, something I need to remember if/when I get the next round of ideation.

 

[kris]

I ask these questions because I am in therapy and they are things the therapist brings up to make me think about when I tell him yes I have thought about killing myself in the last week. He reminds me that my family/friends even HE would suffer and mourn if I was to kill myself. I feel as this is a lie that nobody would care if I killed myself (but thats just what I tell myself so I dont have to think about their suffering).

The "what's the big deal" title of the thread is coming not from what's the big deal if I kill myself-its what the big deal that it causes more pain and suffering for the living. If I already feel like no one in the world cares for me why does the fact that it causes more suffering bother me. Whats the big deal that suicide is such a horrible option, who is to say its not there as an option that people that believe in God have. I am not familiar at all with the bible but does it say not to kill yourself that your going to hell if you do. Does it say that there is greater punishment for yourself to kill yourself-things like that.

I dont believe you would be in pain after you die, you die your stuffed in a coffin in the ground and its just bones-how are you going to have pain from that. -thats my take on dying.
I am not saying that people choose cancer because they smoke and tan and things like that, but its a known fact that such things increase your risk of dying from cancer. So what is the difference in my drinking antifreeze or downing a whole bottle of pills-thats increasing my risks in the hopes I die. Just as much as everytime someone lights up a cigeratte they are metaphorically swallowing a teaspoon of antifreeze thats eventually going to catch up to them and cause death. Why is it any different to take what your going to get all at once or slowly over time.

To wattle-about the utter waste part, to me that has no affect on me, it wouldn't or doesnt matter what I could be. Maybe because I already feel as if my story has been written and I am not going to amount to anything other than this crazy freak of a person I already am.

 

[heidi]

I had a dream that really spooked me. It was basically I was in bed and I saw my comforter being dragged by itself past my open bedroom door. Which I think was just a creepy metaphor for the place I would have taken my life. People were coming in my apartment and I couldn't stop them. Friends, family..friends of family I didn't even know. I feel like that's a metaphor for not being able to control the stuff that happens after you die. People coming in like that. People talking. Accidentally inviting people into a private place you didn't want them. And the bed, my comforter and sheets, were symbolic of how gruesome an act like that really is. Which is something I didn't fully comprehend.

 

[The Albatross]

So what is the difference in my drinking antifreeze or downing a whole bottle of pills-thats increasing my risks in the hopes I die. Just as much as everytime someone lights up a cigeratte they are metaphorically swallowing a teaspoon of antifreeze thats eventually going to catch up to them and cause death. Why is it any different to take what your going to get all at once or slowly over time.

Because the first is a decisive act of violence that you commit on yourself that will be fatal or could be permanently disabling (if something messes up and you aren't entirely successful). The second increases the likelyhood of a lifethreatening possibly fatal event, but allows for the opportunity to change course and find alternative ways of coping that aren't harmful to health or psyche.

I have long described my smoking cigs as "slow suicide". I was actually free from them for 5 years before my last traumatic break. I haven't found it in me again to be successful with it for more than a month at a time in almost 4 years. But having done it before, I can more easily expect that sometime in the future I can do it again. Will the smoking I have already done cause cancer or kill me? Who can say? But if I die by suicide or risk it and botch it in some way... I know for certain that I gave up, lost the game, my father was right about me, my ex husband was right about me, my rapists were right about me... and they won, or I will have more dire decisions and consequences if I mess it up. It's a certainty.

One allows for the hope for opportunity for change, the other is fatally victimizing and either angrily or despondently abandoning all hope.

 

[OKRADLAK]

Kris-----it hurts people around you tremendously. Those who love you. That in itself is reason to go on. People love you.

 

[heidi]

I don't judge though. And I don't think there is an entity that judges either. The only time I feel it's unforgivable is when a person has children in which case it's unforgivable.

 

[Marie E.]

Wow, Albatross, nice to know that I'm not alone with the slow suicide theory with smokes. I can totally relate to you!

And for my opinion about suicide - if I ever know that I have a sure proof plan to kill myself, I will seek as an inpatient at a ward if it is that bad, but this is just me.

And I do have two lovely boys. Whether they are with me or not, I live for them more than for myself, though I am still learning how to heal!

 

[Tinyflame]

I think Marie E. that's all we can do.

Alby-yes- it occurred to me when I read it that I did view suicide as a treatment option (!) :confused: :rolleyes:

kris I appreciate you being so honest.
I may be very wrong and I apologize if I am, but it sounds as though you are angry- and that's the same as hurt, expressed a different way.
Sometimes the anger gets directed inward instead of towards 'events' or other's actions.
However it is fortunate that people have told you they do care about you, I have to say it's pretty typical with ptsd to hate ourselves, so it's hard to believe.

I don't know an incredible amount about the Bible, but it does say 'God' is God- much wiser than we are as only 'humans'. If He made us, surely He does have specific plans in place. Suicide derails those- present and future. It also doesn't take in to account something is expected of 'us' to accomplish- just by being ourselves, right now and where we are.

I believe that I personally so removed myself from any 'emotion' connected with my own life or death it really resulted in an entire numbness regarding any of it. Because also I'm not even a violent person- can't hurt a bug- but somehow 'murdering yourself', - no fear or 'anything'. That is ptsd- that is what one has to challenge.

My SI (latest 'round') started with triggers and years of abuse, and exhaustion contributing.
-Like the stress cup article says.
(It didn't help to be told I should do the world a favour and kill myself, etc. Not in response to bringing up the topic but as part of the environment. I think that contributes).

I hope you can begin by having some basic empathy towards yourself- as much as you would at least give others.
xox

 

[NIKI]

Kris can you work towards getting away from the people that hurt you ? I did and my life is much better now.

I hope you are ok. I care!