General When Does It Become *more* Than A Shut-out?

[neverforget]

I've read this thread with interest and I have a question,cause I'm not sure.

When we had a discussion with my ex, he often seemed unable to answer my questions,and to express his feelings.
I felt like he didn't care, sometimes I wondered if he just understood what I was saying. Such a strange feeling!
In the end I thought there was no use in trying to communicate, cause I had this feeling I was talking to myself and I just pissed him out.

I didn't want to get angry, so I would just wait, and it would take him 2 days to react.
Then he would contact me with thoughts clear, express his opinion about the issue of the discussion and all the things he would say about it would make sense. But there was this delay, hard to understand.

Is it a shut out?

One day I sent him an e-mail (cause phone seemed to make him uncomfortable when it was a "serious" discussion) and expressed how I felt about something that happened and that I didn't understand.

It would take him two days to answer and tell me he was sorry he didn't answer earlier,that he knew it was not nice, and that I shouldn't be angry but he couldn't find a straight answer to my e-mail.

Globally, he seemed unable to tell me how he felt about a situation, and often unable to make a decision (which is logical if he didn't know how he felt about the situation). He seemed to suffer from it.
I thought when he said "I don't know" he wanted to avoid a conversation, and that made me angry, but maybe he really didn't know.

The last discussion we had was very emotional cause I explained him I thought breaking up was better for us, and he told me "I phone you tomorrow morning", "I'm going to spend the night thinking".
Like again he needed a delay to be able to react to what I said. I found it weird at that time.

With hindsight, I realise that when he would tell me "I'm not in the mood" it was his way to tell me he felt like retreating...I would take it like a lack of respect, now I see things differently.

 

[anthony]

Wendy, you are in chat carers, please remember that.... we sufferers DO NOT come into the carer area and abuse or argue with them, as carers DO NOT come into the PTSD chat forum and do the same with us. There is a clear distinction for a good reason, so opposite spectrum's, experience and points of view are not argued here the same as the exact issues that are often caused in the home in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Anthony,

Point taken. I will remember not to cross the boundary.

 

[unbroken]

Unbroken, your post almost made me cry because you are so sweet!
.......
Again, told my husband the same thing, and he chose to stay with me. It makes me so happy and hopeful to see that there are other couples who are working through this and making it work. :smile:

Thanks, Lucky, I can only hope she thinks the same of me. I know I have my moments when she doesn't like something I said or did, only I get to blame it on being a guy and that usually gets me out of trouble! lol

As I read comments from people here I learn more and am able to understand things better. There's so much going on in her life right now that stresses her out, but she still calls me a couple times a day, even if she's just saying good night. We haven't known each other very long but we both feel such a strong bond to each other, I can't explain it. I think it's great that you and your hubby are able to be here and help each other, as well as the rest of us.

Sometimes I just need to vent, but none of my friends would understand, so it's hard to talk about how I feel with just anyone. So I'm grateful that people are willing to share and open up about what they go through.

thanks...

 

[becvan]

Time constraints on healing just is stupid as far as I am concerned. It's like telling someone with cancer that they only have 9 weeks to get better. .....

I wanted to highlight this point. As throughout this thread, the language I keep hearing is "bad behavior." Shutting down, shutting out, etc.. is "bad" behavior.

I disagree. It's a coping mechanism. It's not done to hurt anyone. To ignore anyone. In fact it's not done TO anyone. It's simply a way for the sufferer to attempt to cope when the turmoil of their minds are too much to handle any longer.

Is this healthy? Hell no. Not even close unless in very small doses. Is it "bad" or "abusive" behavior? NO. Not in any wild stretch of the imagination. It is a survival coping mechanism that is vital to surviving this cursed disorder. Saying that this is bad or abusive is the same as telling someone in a manic episode that cleaning or making lists is bad. They just shouldn't do it because it hurts your feelings.

Learning new and healthy coping mechanisms takes a long long time. If someone is in the middle of a shutdown coping mechanism, trying to force them out of it is only going to get the door slammed in your face harder. It's not the time or place to address this.

Also putting time limits on this coping mechanism is completely unfair, irresponsible, and ludicrous. Hence why I have quoted She Cat. Her comparison is dead on.

If you, the carer, can not wait till after the sufferers crisis is over (and that is exactly what a shut down is) to discuss better boundaries and learning a more healthy coping skill; then, IMHO, you were not meant for this relationship to begin with.

I see a lot of carers past baggage (previous abuse) being dragged over into dealing with sufferers. Understand something. You are choosing to be with a sufferer. A lot of our coping skills are unhealthy until we learn better. Some never will. 99% of sufferers are NOT abusive. We are simply trying to survive. If you have to have time limits on shutdowns, any type of symptom attacks, then I think you need to rethink being in this relationship in the first place. If you feel this is selfish, rude, uncalled for, abusive, mean , bad behavior, etc... then why are you in this relationship to begin with?

We are sick. We didn't choose this. And most of us are trying to get better.

bec

 

[Nicolette]

If you feel this is selfish, rude, uncalled for, abusive, mean , bad behavior, etc... then why are you in this relationship to begin with?

From a Carers' point of view understanding PTSD takes time and experience. Anthony gave me literature to read early on and even though he emphasised it could be bad, until you go down that road with a sufferer you really don't understand what you are getting into. It also may occur that a suffer may initially be well and then months down the track is triggered and gets very ill. I am sure when Sisu signed up for a relationship with her boyfriend he did not say to her sometimes I may shut you out which could be months on end....if Anthony had said that to me upfront I would have never got involved as, while I don't wish for him or anyone to be ill, that's not the type of relationship I want as, in my world, shutting out is pretty close to checking out of the relationship.

No-one is questioning how terrible PTSD is or whether someone is trying to heal themselves. This discussion was, and still should be about a Carer's point of view on what they can accommodate and what they can't. Whether the sufferers' actions are justifiable in accordance with their illness is a whole separate topic. I am sure PTSD sufferers would not stay in a relationship with a person who caused them daily, continuous, high levels of stress which only made the sufferer worse. It can be argued that the shoe can be put on the other foot and an opposite view point can apply to the sufferer.

The point here was how a Carer can deal with shut outs and for how long a carer can sustain that type of relationship. It is NOT about the symptoms, cause or justification of the illness.

No-one here wants anyone to suffer. No-one disputes PTSD can be hell on earth.

I don't understand why the point is being missed.:crazy:

 

[becvan]

Well I am a carer. My point was.. in case in got missed in all that.. that if you are not prepared for shut ins.. don't be in the relationship.. ( I do realize that not all carers have the slightest clue when beginning a relationship, however once they know it becomes their choice.) and that the time for exploring this boundary is NOT while a sufferer is in the shut in!

No where did I see any question on HOW to deal with them.. if that is a question I will be more than happy to share what I know works.. from both perspectives.

And yes, it is about the symptoms when such heavily emotionally worded judgment words, like bad behavior and abuse are constantly being thrown about.

Did I better clarify my point?

bec

 

[Nicolette]

But you are not a Carer in an adult relationship with another consenting adult who has PTSD. I am sure I read that Sisu said that it was 8 months into the relationship when this occurred. Once it happens what do you do? This is the first and only time it has happened from what I understand. Does this mean she has to "live with it" because she agreed to be in a relationship with someone who has PTSD - an illness she does not really understand? I have been with Anthony for over a year and I still get surprises at how PTSD can rear its ugly head. Have I left - no way. If Anthony disappeared for 2 months without a word...would I leave....I don't know but it would be really hard to rationalise that he wanted to be in a relationship with me if he did it.

There are many many posts over this forum about how Carers don't understand PTSD. Bec, you come from a point of understanding as you have PTSD yourself so you can identify and appreciate what Matt goes through. Does Sisu have a clue what her boyfriend really goes through - I doubt it.

 

[becvan]

NO NO NO. I don't mean she has to live with it! OMG.. lol

She is in her (her right? :eek:) learning curve. Basically she just got the hard slap upside the face with PTSD. After this shut out.. it's her choice.. OMG.. lol too funny.

While she is in the first shut out.. having just learned of it.. no hard lines should be drawn. No demands made. Wait till after to sit down and discuss this. If, at this point, the line is drawn "no shut downs" then she should leave. As that is just not reasonable.

Point taken about my insight.You are dead on with that. Thanks for the reminder! *grins wickedly* which reminds me.. that you also are with someone in management phase.. and who does very well at that.. not full blown uncontrolled.. whole different ball game.. which requires a lot more leeway.. yet stricter boundaries at the same time! :wink:

bec

 

[Nicolette]

:occasion:

 

[anthony]

Yes, I do remind Nicolette of this often, especially when referencing people here at times, in that she did not get me through the bad times of my PTSD, the times she reads about here. Often Nicolette does become quite baffled at some things said here compared to knowing me and what I am like to live with. It is difficult for any carer depending upon when and at what stage a sufferer is. All of us have relapse during our life, though not likely ever to the extent of uncontrolled.

Kerrie did wear that from me... and those who do live with a person off uncontrolled PTSD will live through hell dealing with it. Someone in management is quite different to deal with.... nothing of a hard struggle compared to uncontrolled PTSD.

 

[becvan]

Hehe.. I think Nicolette and I are are on a see saw... each on our own just sit on the ground.. together we can balance it!

As a parent of a sufferer and a sufferer I tend to be more understanding in some areas, where as Nicolette is much more hard headed about it.. and in others vice versa!

LOL yes I am in a off beat mood! :)

bec