Why Are People Scared Of Us?

[vikingr12]

I would not speak to the professor. I would just go to the Dean of the department or college. I have done so before, not on this subject but others. Professor's often think they have an embargo on all thought. I walked out of a graduate school class that was designated "History" and the professor started by saying he won't be satisfied until every student in the class "avowed" communism. I am not shitting you. I walked out of the class and straight to the Dean. Of course, nothing happened but I felt better when I dropped the class.

I can study anything I don't like but when I have to be something I fought against, almost died fighting, I will be damned if I am going to do that.

Shortly after I got back from 'Nam and out of the hospital, a guy shot some people on his way up a building staircase in one of the major southern cities running from a robbery. (New Orleans I think.) He was filmed from a helicopter on top of the building shooting at people who tried to come out of the staircase. The cops stormed the building and never found him. Magic. He disappeared.

When the narrator of the film said the cops knew he was a 'Nam vet and voiced the concern that "this may happen more times in the future" I told myself, good for that guy. He got away.

One guy I know said he felt all vets returning from combat should get a counselor assigned to follow them around every day. Well, that's job security, isn't it? That's all I could say without decking him right there.

I know it's wrong to think that about a criminal that way but I have heard and seen similar instances of this. People do not realize that PTSD has a lot to do with what you were before you were exposed to the trauma. Violent father. Violent neighborhood, school. The story about the gutting of a girl friend. Depression and heredity -- all these events and conditions contribute to getting PTSD when you go to combat. Not always, but many times. So it is not PTSD itself that causes the aberrant behavior.

And yes, I could tell other stories specifically about being called a "monster" and "baby killer" but nobody dared spit on my uniform. Even some of the looks from people said, I hate you. But spitting on a uniform is not free speech in my opinion. It is one of the reasons why the Pentagon sent an order to the effect that and wherever possible without breaking serious military protocol, wearing your uniform in public was not necessary and even discouraged. IF there is any real difference between the Vietnam War and other wars, it is the mood of the public towards those who went, even when they did (we had the draft then) or did not have to.

I am happy to see our young vets don't have to go through that BS. I almost cried when I saw one young man come through the exit from a flight to the waiting room to his family. He was applauded by the waiting crowd.

 

[Spock]

...In 1997 (I was 18) my girl friend was murdered by a Nam Vet with PTSD...

I get it but not comfortable with this, it feeds the stereotype you're concerned about. All due respect to your loved one but the guy was a murdering rapist. The high majority of Nam vets are not murdering rapists. We don't treat all men as murdering rapists. Did the guy have brown or blond hair? We must resist feeding or buying into this stereotype. Hell, maybe it is a losing battle and we'll just have to get used to it but there were far most smokers and drinkers after WWII with self medication but those guys are the "greatest generation." We can always push back on stereotyping and it seems we'll have to do more of it.. You're not wrong Florian, especially since you're still in the early stages of struggle with the beast. Just trying to provide a longer term perspective. Ref what Vik12 wrote as a Nam Vet:

...One guy I know said he felt all vets returning from combat should get a counselor assigned to follow them around every day. Well, that's job security, isn't it? That's all I could say without decking him right there.

I know it's wrong to think that about a criminal that way but I have heard and seen similar instances of this. People do not realize that PTSD has a lot to do with what you were before you were exposed to the trauma. Violent father. Violent neighborhood, school. The story about the gutting of a girl friend. Depression and heredity -- all these events and conditions contribute to getting PTSD when you go to combat. Not always, but many times. So it is not PTSD itself that causes the aberrant behavior....

 

[Spock]

Well Florian I'm surprised I'm not on the couch tonight. This had me so angry I tried to pick a fight with one of my Wife's male friends over a comment that at the time I didn't like. I was to pissed to realize I took it out of context. Its ok the guy and his wife always got on my nerves to begin with, but I still hate that I can't be my SSG self with the rest of the world:devil:

That's the point...you already hated the guy, life is full of stuff that makes us smile and be pissed. PTSD is a veil over that normal cycle of up and down. We just have less room to cope, less patience if you will. So, you're on edge easier but it is still your decision to cross a line. Stay strong brothers and when you eventually mess up then try to learn form it, get up and get back in the fight

 

[Spock]

wrong edit

 

[Virtues]

I don't mean to label anyone here, that wasn't my intent. I'm sorry if I offended anyone that's not what I was trying to do. Spock, Vik12 you guys are right, I was a violent guy before the military. I loved mixing it up and was rather scrappy, but I never would have intentionally put any serious or lasting hurt on anyone and that's the honest truth. I'm scared I might not be able to restrain myself sometime in the future. Partly because of the PTSD, partly because of what I've seen, partly because I don't have a grasp on it, and partly because as a civilian I was prone to muc it up. My concerns are genuine but in no way did I mean to make them anyone else's concerns. I talked to the psychologist today about just this and he suggested trying to make new habits by seeking out confrontation each day when I'm at my best instead of letting it find me. That way I get practice not letting confrontations escalate and form new habits. It seems good in theory. I started today.

 

[Spock]

I don't mean to label anyone here, that wasn't my intent. I'm sorry if I offended anyone that's not what I was trying to do. Spock, Vik12 you guys are right, I was a violent guy before the military. I loved mixing it up and was rather scrappy, but I never would have intentionally put any serious or lasting hurt on anyone and that's the honest truth. I'm scared I might not be able to restrain myself sometime in the future. Partly because of the PTSD, partly because of what I've seen, partly because I don't have a grasp on it, and partly because as a civilian I was prone to much it up. My concerns are genuine but in no way did I mean to make them anyone else's concerns. I talked to the psychologist today about just this and he suggested trying to make new habits by seeking out confrontation each day when I'm at my best instead of letting it find me. That way I get practice not letting confrontations escalate and form new habits. It seems good in theory. I started today.

Naw, forget about that...you're fine. Keep venting & sharing...we're just sharing perspectives. We all have to deal with that same challenge with our reduced coping ability and it is truly scary sometimes when we look at ourselves

 

[Virtues]

I just don't want anyone in here to think, that I think, that we're all f*ckED!!! because I really don't think that way. I had to come to terms what happened to my girlfriend a long time ago. Christ I'm married and have 3 little girls of my own now. My only point for bringing it up was, that when I came to terms with it, and forgave him in my own way (he WAS in prison, and as stated a "murdering rapist", so there's only so much forgiving that could be done, yet at the same time I had to put it to rest and leave it behind me) in order to do this I had to find a piece of me in him, no matter how small the shred of humanity, and let it go. That small shred now seems to taunt me. With every road rage episode, with every outburst with my wife or kids, every time I lock a junior warrior on, it comes back to haunt me. What I once found in common with the man to make peace has now resurfaced as torment, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with that. I'm still working on turning the anger into inspiration, but all that's come out on the other end so far is anxiety. I'm working on it.

I guess this story about the cop hit home to me. I sympathize a little, because I feel like he's talking about people like me. But I'm not trying to encompass anyone else in with my OTHER problems.

But at the same time I wasn't there. I'm sure it was done in bad taste or it wouldn't have made such a stir. I have the same problem with my wife, I have stuff on my mind, but when I try to talk about it I just end up making an ass of myself.

 

[Spock]

You're posting really deep stuff Florian...I appreciate it!

 

[JarHed]

Hey Woodsman

I found this; here's the link https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/laurence-gonzales/surviving-survival/

I don't know if this is the book or the guy. This may be a bit unusual but I remember seeing an episode of STNG where the vets of some war on some planet were kept away from the general population on the moon of the planet. They were actually confined there. Well eventually they'd had it and rebelled. The society didn't know how to deal with them, sound familiar.

You know they train us to be soldiers and to kill, then we go and kill then we come back home to this shit. I'm a 'Nam vet and it hasn't changed in that regard in way too many years. It's seems like everyone and every group gets some elevated status today except us. Next war send the politicians kids.

JarHed

Oh, Welcome to the forums. I missed your intro. Glad you made it back.

 

[Sarg]

I've got to give them an "A" for effort tho', Jar. They had parades, hell, they even wanted to have a Viet Nam Veteran's Day! You and I know it was too little, too late but they did try.

Sarg

 

[JarHed]

Hey Sarg

Who is the 'them' that you're referring to? Is this something in your area or something recent?

Just curious.

Jar

 

[Woodsman82]

Florian your preaching to the choir. Sometimes I say things or think things, and it suddenly dawns on me wow that sounded crazier than I anticipated. Don't forget that the vast majority of really screwed up people in the world are not vets nor did they ever have the intestinal fortitude to raise their right hand. I like to think of us as a special breed in that the warrior sprit is so ingrained in us that no matter how badly conflict has scared us we only feel comfortable around other warriors. Sort of like Valhalla on earth if you will.