Relationship Why Do They Keep You Around?

[TheMinsterman]

To put into context, me and my now ex-girlfriend had a very strained period of our 11-12 year relationship (just under 2 years of a romantic one, though we've been in love the whole time) over the past four months.

She experienced something very triggering at the start of her first few days living alone in halls at university (attempted assault), to which I suggested she inform her then friends, so she had people watching her back. Time passed and relations with these girls grew quite strained until they fell out completely as she began to spiral with her PTSD (she felt I betrayed her by saying to go to them, though acknowledges I likely did the right thing). At this time she met a new friend, who within days tried having sex with her and allowed people to spread rumours to the effect that they had, although they hadn't. This person has basically assumed total control over her, which I've discussed in other threads, but basically it has crippled our communication on top of her reluctance to speak due to her PTSD getting worse. She defends this person despite acknowledging their behaviour is bad, I have no idea now if he's done anything worse to her (its possible) or the nature of their relationship.

As all of this has developed as she has withdrawn from me, just before she said she was "putting out relationship away to keep safe from all these people), since she has withdrawn, stopped being affectionate, reduced contact etc. She would suddenly be quite critical until eventually she wanted to break up, her reasons been quite odd "people change", "life threw a curveball."

To place into context, shes never wavered from her love for me before, not even during trauma and PTSD spells, so it has been quite stark to go from total affection to being "the enemy".

Anyway, our communication has fluctuated terribly, she often takes hours to respond, avoids discussing how she is feeling, I've become disheartened and stopped speaking to her as much as a result. Yet... she is very adamant about wanting me around, is concerned when I stop getting in touch etc.

Today we spoke again properly for the first time in a while after touching base last night when I was bored at work, I thought nothing of it until she quite matter of factly asked me why I had been quiet. I was honest and said I'd been down and feeling sad, to which she said ok and it didn't really go anywhere after that as her phone battery was dying and she had classes. She did, however, make a point of saying she was "back" after classes, but it was the same type of conversations that have caused me to become so disillusioned, hours between responses etc.

I guess I am just massively confused. She broke up with me, but she is always adamant about keeping me around, she doesn't want me to go anywhere, she says things like I am still the most important person in her life, coupled with her saying things like whilst she doesn't want a relationship right now she feels she is missing a piece without me and there is a gaping hole in her life, she gets upset at a jokey valentines status (which other women replied to).

If she doesn't want to be with me, if I was all these bad things that caused stress.... why does she still want me around?

Why reject me... only to cling so firmly?

If I was stood on the outside looking in I'd no doubt be able to look at this rationally and clearly, like I do when I reply to all of you, but I am emotionally invested and burned out now, so I am just so confused. I know about the push/pull dynamic but... if I am so valuable why I am so frequently treated as though I am not? Is it really just isolation and this controlling "friend"?

Sorry to ramble... I just need some support today I think.

 

[AlbusLupa]

From everything you've said, here and around the forums, I think you've done everything you could to help her. I think that could be why she wants to keep you around, even if she thinks for a moment that you're responsible, she's got to know or feel deep down you've done everything you could to help her out.

I think that she rejects you because she wants to protect you, she cares about you, and knows it's probably better for you to leave her alone, but she also doesn't want to lose you. It's a strong push/pull, not knowing what she wants more, to protect you or to be with you. Right now those likely aren't the same thing in her mind, so she's struggling to make the call of what is best.

I don't know if that helps at all. You've been there as a source of great advice for me and others here before, I can only hope that people here manage to provide that for you now.

 

[BlueOrange]

There are a lot of possible explanations, and I'm concerned about how to manage your expectations here - neither false hope or false pessimism is of good service to you.

What seems to be going on is that she switches rapidly between needing you desperately, and hatefully pushing you away.

To understand this, the theory of Structural Dissociation is useful. There is a fault line (perhaps more than one) in her mind. On one side of that line is someone who loves you and needs you. On the other side is someone who is convinced that you are dangerous, and need to be kept away before you cause her to die.

One of those people is 'Apparently Normal' - they operate in society in a way that seems normal, but if you look closely, there's something missing. They have an emotion that they don't express. That emotion belongs to an Emotional Part, who is a one-track record, trapped in a moment in time when her life was in danger.

(If that seems oversimplified, then she may have DID or DDNOS, which are closely related to PTSD, but have more parts involved.)

What's not obvious from the outside is that the Apparently Normal Part is terrified of the Emotional Part; the ANP wants to integrate with society is ashamed of what the EP does, especially the way that it damages relationships. Meanwhile, the EP hates the ANP, who is to blame for putting the entire self at risk of death by making poor judgments about life-threatening situations.

The relationship between the two is a struggle for the steering wheel. Each attempts to force the other out of the way.

Don't think of her as one person, think of her as two sisters in one house who are deeply divided on the subject of you. When you phone that house (when you communicate with her), they'll race each other to answer the phone. Sometimes, the EP will snatch the phone out of the other one's hand. Sometimes, the EP will take the phone and hide it.

Understand that the EP will never go away, and will always be there - our bioengineering means that we do not forget threats to survival. If you're going to have an intimate relationship with one, you'll need to build mutual tolerance with the other. This means finding a way to get along with someone who is convinced you are trying to kill them, and who will stop at nothing to survive.

The good news is that the part you're in love with has exactly the same problem that you have, and is motivated to solve it.

If you choose this struggle, know that there is a long road ahead. And every time she lowers her defences against you, she is also lowering her defences against the Emotional Part.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Thank you both for the responses, it's been a rough day. I never thought I'd get so messed up by something as simple as being asked why I've been quiet, I just assume she doesn't care, then she shows some interest and it throws me off kilter.

@AlbusLupa, it's often very contradictory. Like, I betrayed her by getting her to share with these people when she didn't want to, yet equally accepts she could have said no and that I likely did the right thing. So it's like she knows I was trying to help, but because it resulted in something traumatic she resents me for it, rather than resenting the friends for turning on her and the person for trying to force himself on her. Because she is so much more ruthless now and pushes me out I find it hard to actually believe she wants me around, I think that is why it messes me up so much. The her I knew is so repressed and gone I just see the one who hates me.

@BlueOrange, that makes sense, it's like she's become a whole new person sometimes, somebody I don't really know, then old elements of her peek through. I am left wondering which one is the "real her" then realising both are, I just never met this other one, despite her having PTSD the whole time and having bad spells, all the other bad spells she wanted me around, full stop, there was no pushing me out. She still loved me and that was that.

 

[BlueOrange]

When you say 'whole new person', I get the impression that it's a change that has some duration to it, that she will 'be that person' for days or longer.

In which case, it starts to sound like she has more than one Apparently Normal Part. (Did the Bad Things start happening before age 8?)

If I'm on the right track, you might want to have a read of the Flashbacks and Dissociation subforum, which is where we really dig in to the complexities and confusion.

Kids who break into many pieces will be more confusing (but not necessarily worse) than adults who split into two.

 

[Snowflakes]

@TheMinsterman I don't know what to say that would give you the answers you are looking for. However, I do sense your pain and just wanted you to know my silence simply means I'm here for you and listening to you.

Take care.

 

[grimalkin]

:hug: I'm at the point where I'm trying to just keep on and keep going until I move out - I won't be able to truly heal or move on in any meaningful way until I'm not living in the same house as a man who will act as if nothing is wrong, and as if he loves me, and then go into isolation mode again because he realizes what he's doing.

I do often wonder, seeing instances like @TheMinsterman, and others on here, how much dissociative identities come into play. Maybe not complete "identities," but "sides" of the same person (which is what, if I understand it correctly, is generally what DID is for some/most?). My sufferer, too, has sides that he's just started referring to (and almost acknowledges he's always had, but never told me), one is about 7 or 8, one is a teenager, one his "him." I'd add another that is pure instinct and rage, though probably related to the teenager. He described it as realizing that he's reacting like a scared 8 year old, or a teenager, and that "part" is making all the decisions. That is, the scared 8 year old wants to push me away, while the teenager wants to just go off by himself and sulk. Then "he" is there, and starts calling me pet names again.

And then turns around and says he's being logical when the kid and teenager make the decisions.

He's never been diagnosed with DID, and I'm not sure qualifies for it, since I'm not a mental health professional. But there are definitely distinct sides of him, and he does describe dissociating. I also noticed with him that he is very particular about what I take about him seriously. He never wanted me to look at his actions, only listen to his words. His actions run the gamut from abusive (not physically) and rage-filled, to completely sweet and loving. But he could have control over his words, both before, when he wanted me to stay and be in love (even if his actions said he was rejecting me), and now, when his actions are telling me he still loves me, but his words push me away.

Our marriage counselor described it a bit too - the part of him that is reacting on pure instinct sees anyone who has gotten within his defenses as a threat, and will do anything, including subconscious sabotage, to escape that threat and be able to make it go away.

We had a particularly telling therapy session, in which he made himself more vulnerable than he ever had before - our therapist even tried to close with him feeling safe, and tried to make him realize he was probably going to have some issues because of how open he let himself get.

So when he finally revealed what I had done (which I now realize actually wasn't my fault - he would have been triggered at some point, this just happened to be it. But, he still sees it as I did it, so it's my fault) to trigger him, it was in such a way that we were discussing politics (the one topic I have for years been hesitant to discuss with him because of the rages he goes into), and managed to tell me I'm just as much of an abuser as Donald Trump (we were talking about his misogyny, harassment, and general grossness), and no better than his mother (who was one of his primary abusers and abandoners). (What did I do to trigger him? In a fit of trying to show him I still was hot for him, I groped him and said he's mine...he's done exactly the same thing to me so I had NO idea it even had the potential to be a trigger for him - he probably didn't either)

I was devastated and said if that's what he thought of me, then "we might as well be done." He completely dissociated, misunderstood me, thought I said I was leaving, claimed I screamed at him, and basically switched off. It didn't matter that I didn't say I was done, nor that I was leaving, nor did I even yell, except to be heard over his screaming at me (I was too busy crying and having a panic attack).

ANYway, our next counseling session, our counselor tried explaining that because he has never dealt with his trauma in a way that has even taught him how to heal, it was only a matter of time that something like that would happen (that he'd be triggered badly enough to want to run again). And of COURSE he retreated further after being so open and vulnerable, because now the scared emotional part of him (whom he even said was the little kid and teenager making the decisions) would do whatever it had to, to push me away, even if it meant being able to react to, basically, a set up.

It was and is telling that when confronted, and asked, how he's using "pure logic" in deciding he was truly in danger, and he needs to be alone, that he doesn't have an answer. The "him" I know and love realizes it's not logical. The rest of him doesn't care and just wants to run.

Wow. That was long. Sorry! :bookworm: This is one of the few places I can vent where there are so many going through the same things, and while my therapist is great, she doesn't have the experiences I'm receiving here.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Thank you all for the responses, they mean a lot.

Just a small response before bed for now, as something @grimalkin said sparked something in my mind. I think what is causing me so much distress is the differences between what she says and how she behaves.

For example, I'm the most important person in her life.... but she vanishes on me, stops talking, spending time with an abuser etc or "I'm not going to abandon you", only to continue with the lack of responses, frequent spells of disappearing.

I think as much as what she says can contradict a lot... what makes it hard to feel worthwhile to her or believe her is her actions often do not reflect what she says so I find it hard to trust what she says or take it as reflective of her feelings.

 

[Linzee]

Thank you all for the responses, they mean a lot.

Just a small response before bed for now, as s...

@TheMinsterman you are always a wealth of knowledge, experience and support to others (including me). I'm gutted you have had such a rough time of it recently, I can read and sense how utterly exhausted and spent you are!

I haven't read all the books and am not a trained specialist. I do have some life experience however. I am happy to go out on a limb and say that I think its okay for you to release frustrations (away from her) and scream out loud if you have to "I've have enough! I don't give a s**t anymore, get a grip!"

Of course, none of these things may be true and after such a long relationship, your feelings for her are still deep rooted.
But when all is said and done, certain behaviour (regardless of how the sufferer may not mean it) is inexcusable if its to the detriment if another person. Especially your closest loved one.

You deserve not to feel like everyday is an exercise in walking on eggshells and trying not to break any. Don't get me wrong, I feel for her. I feel for you both in this situation neither of you want.

I know you're a tough cookie but from what I've read you say today, sounds like you really need a break away. Let her calm down and be with her own thoughts for a while maybe before going back in.

Chin up.

 

[Friday]

The transition between friendship-dating-friendship... Is an awkward, confusing, & often painful one in and of itself. IF possible, and more often than not, it isn't. But when it is? Take PTSD out of the picture entirely, and what you're describing could simply be that.

Adding PTSD back into the picture? Doesn't really complicate it. Just explains some of the details.

Occam's Razor, I tend to be a fan of simple solutions. Doesn't mean it's right, but it sounds likely.

 

[TheMinsterman]

@Friday, yes, quite plausibly so, however, for me I think what bothers me is not replying for hours, often just vanishing without explanation is not something I'd expect from a friend either, even without all the relationship baggage, I don't think it takes much effort to just say "I'm going out now" or "I'm not feeling up to talking", she can't plead ignorance either because I told her this even before we broke up and she agreed she should communicate if she is getting busy/going out,

I can take the mixed messages, I mean, she broke up with me abruptly and as much as she tells herself "people change" I don't think you can go from 100% certainty that I am all she has ever wanted for over a decade to "life threw a curveball" and have no residual feelings left over, she has said she is confused on more than one occasion so.

I just have certain standards for friends and she isn't living up to them, they're not even that strict, just... actually speak to me, don't ignore me, I don't think that is much to ask for. She chose to break up, she was the one who was adamant she wanted me to stick around, she is the one saying I'm still the most important person in her life, its time to act like it.

@Linzee, thank you, it's not quite eggshells these days, its more... so... you're just going to disappear again... thanks. I guess as I said above, I think its quite rude because its more or less all the time, it's not every so often. You're correct, my feelings are very much deep rooted, I do still love her, though I am quite realistic that our relationship is over and it'd take some monumental changes on her part to have me even consider discussing it at this point, she's simply demolished my already very difficult to gain trust.

I think I am just tired of the uncertainty and the constant up and downs, I don't feel like I am getting anything out of this "relationship" right now, she talks when SHE wants, I get replies when SHE wants, if she is upset I listen, if I am upset I can't be sure her abusive friend isn't looking at her phone, I can't ring her as she hangs up if he shows up etc. I feel like it is so massively one sided, I don't think it's too much to ask for basic things like talking like normal people or knowing I can go to her with things (I have other issues but can't even raise them).

All very tricky.

@BlueOrange, her initial trauma that triggered her PTSD was in adulthood, however, she has always had a bad and fractured relationship with her mother that meant she had suffered depression already, so there's likely several sides of her, it's just this new one which doesn't look at me the same, who is very critical of me etc I've never met before, ever. That's why its such a culture shock, if it was always there she kept it well hidden.

@Snowflakes, thank you very much, much appreciated. @grimalkin, I agree, it's very useful to have people who understand what you're going through on here :)

 

[BlueOrange]

@TheMinsterman , that continues to sound very tough. One-sided is indeed bad. And it's hard to tell about diagnosis, especially when it comes to DID, which is all about hiding things.

@grimalkin , the sufferer's triggers are never your fault. He needs to understand that, and it's a difficult understanding for him to get to. I'm encouraged by the fact that he's seeing a therapist with you, and that the therapist is addressing this. There's a lot of pain in store for your guy as he faces up to this stuff; hopefully the short-term pain will lead to long-term reward. (If you can both hang in there for a few sessions, you might get an important foundation in place.)

And yeah, words don't always match actions. In a structurally dissociated person, some parts might not be permitted to speak. Speaking parts might not be permitted to act. This is confusing and painful for everyone who is aware of it.