Woman In Combat Arms...

[Need an Oasis]

Hey Jimmy, no offense taken, that's why I put a smileyface. :) We are all friends here. I didn't mean to say that you called me a bra-burning lesbian, I meant to say that this is my opinion as a non-bra-burning non-lesbian woman. If that makes sense.

 

[Wagon]

I just hope Canada does not get into another war because then Justin Beiber will have to go fight and she will screw things up royally.

 

[Zipperhead]

Oh My God! Is Justin Beiber Canadian? I'm so sorry guys! Hang my head in shame! Oh, the humanity. Why couldn't he be American.

 

[combatgoldfish]

Agreed Shogun, but the military/government provides separate facilities to cover its own ass (lawsuits, harassment, whatever). There are probably a lot of women out there who would have no problem with sharing. I worked as a paramedic at a local fire station, and I bunked with the men and shared facilities with the men. Never had a problem with it during shifts, and the guys didn't either.

There is a huge difference between the civilian side of things and military. Even more so, when out in the field or in a combat zone.

In Iraq we had to take out a female medic once. Mind you I was in an ALL male combat arms unit (Combat Engineers.) Everyone had to mind their manors (No cursing, joking, etc.) Everything had to be tailored around this female's needs. After successfully, completing our mission, we had to spend two hours finding her female housing because she couldn't stay in the tents like the men. At the end, she disliked being there as much as we disliked her being there.

 

[Barberian]

The whole equality thing... I was a airframes shop supervisor (worked on the hydraulics and all of the aircraft you see when looking at it with all the doors/panels closed. except the engines and the ejection and related systems). On the boat our shop was on the hangar bay level. Often we had to work on the flight deck, 3 levels up in all weather. Takeing a tool box that weighed around 30 lbs, and different heavy parts up to the flight deck could often be difficult for a strong guy. Giving that same job to a 100 lb woman was fruitless. I usually had to assign the job to a guy and have the woman as a helper when she should have been able to be the primary if she was an "equal". So as far as job assignments went, I didn't really count the women as "workers", but more as "helpers" on any job that required streangth. There was some resentment from the men that several women wouldn't even try to carry the load figuratively and literaly.

I had a very intense conversation with a woman that worked for me about this. She was just over 100 lbs and very intent on being "girly" and not get any stronger so she could actually be an asset to the shop. Sometimes I would assign her the difficult jobs with the heavy parts and make her work out the logistics of getting the suff up to the flight deck without leaving anything alone up there (you can't leave any toolboxes or parts unattended on the flightdeck) just to prove to her what a resource drain her attitude had on the rest of the shop. Basicly she wanted to be in the shop doing paperwork only, yet wanted also to delegate a lot of that paperwork to others because of her seniority. I couldn't reflect it in her evals or I would have been accused of being sexist and discriminating. She was the worst example, but had the same thing with varying degrees with other women that worked for me.

Out of 20yrs, and countless femal co-workers, I've only worked with a few that worked as hard as the guys, and I respected as an equal.

I want to stress that as a human, I respect females just as much as men, until like men they prove otherwise. I give everyone I meet a clean slate untill they muck it up even if I have knowledge that they've messed up in other shops and with other people. Basic biology is what it is, men are on average stronger than women and on the boat working with heavy toolboxes and aircraft parts streangth is a basic requirement. If they tried hard, and worked hard I did my best to accomadate the streanth difference. I've had more than a few "wimpy" men work for me as well that I had to accomadate for also.

 

[Ned]

Well said Barb. Mate of mine was ground crew on Tornadoes and would agree with every word of that, regarding the shop floor.
I have worked with some truly lethal lasses, bloody good assets who could cut to the quick in my particular line of work, better than most blokes. But they left the playground/boys toys stuff to us, very sensible too.
Did that make the 'delivery team' better? I only had to point out the facts of life to one macho tosser, and he was on the next plane home.

 

[BV101]

OK, I have some experience of this. Well a little, from maybe a different perspective. Not being a woman of course, I mean seeing them in war. We had units of them as infantry in our army group. Zuc was held for a long time by a women infantry unit. We had them in our brigade as infantry. Well all we had was infantry, but that is something else.
What I saw they were good. Either as individuals or in groups. Everything that was hard to bare, they did it. In the KLA there were plenty of them. Good good fighters. Its their land as much as a mans, why should they not defend it?

 

[shogun]

OK, I have some experience of this. Well a little, from maybe a different perspective. Not being a woman of course, I mean seeing them in war. We had units of them as infantry in our army group. Zuc was held for a long time by a women infantry unit. We had them in our brigade as infantry. Well all we had was infantry, but that is something else.
What I saw they were good. Either as individuals or in groups. Everything that was hard to bare, they did it. In the KLA there were plenty of them. Good good fighters. Its their land as much as a mans, why should they not defend it?

Were they integrated units or units comprised entirely of women. Two very different scenarios.

 

[Sarg]

Wow! It's amazing how well this photo fits in to this thread...

As an old fart, I say why are these children flying this aircraft! As a realist, I know that they probably flew it better than us hung-over, exhausted from chasing bar girl men! As a taxpayer, I think they probably do it cheaper (thinks back to the time the whole crew fell asleep and flew several hundred miles off course) than we men.

I have no qualms against women in combat roles. If they cannot pull their weight, they as well as men who cannot, don't deploy them! If either sex can't, don't enlist them! The Isralies have been using women in combat roles, for decades.

The important thing is they, like we men, love their country enough to die for it.

Sarg

 

[shogun]

Unfortunately we have to take into account major cultural differences between the Israelis and Americans. Sadly I believe many are pushing the issue more for their own private agendas than out of mission accomplishment. I am worried for the tsunami of njps and court martials that would arise from harrasment or other like claims. Say goodbye to your jack shacks and wank tanks on deployment. Lol
Cracking a boot in the ribs because he fell asleep on watch might end up entirely different if that boot was a female getting punished by a male superior.

 

[BV101]

Were they integrated units or units comprised entirely of women. Two very different scenarios.

both. We had both.

 

[Jimmy1]

Say goodbye to your jack shacks and wank tanks on deployment.

That is sad on its own. You saying a group of you toss off in one room???

I am worried for the tsunami of njps and court martials that would arise from harrasment or other like claims.
Cracking a boot in the ribs because he fell asleep on watch might end up entirely different if that boot was a female getting punished by a male superior.

There are already harassment claims made by men in the civil sector. Whining snot nosed sooks have ruined the defence forces around the world by complaining about unfair rough treatment during training. Now you can't even make a recruit do extra push ups without it being seen as bastardisation.

Alan, did your females also have beards and not shave their armpits????