Wondering About Some Peoples Perceptions Of What Being "attacked" On Forums Means?

[Ghostybear73]

Yes, I agree. You "felt" attacked (even though I don't see it), therefore became defensive and stood up for yourself, this is how other people feel. I believe the question you asked was why do people feel an attack that really isn't there as it related to you getting kicked off a different forum for being blunt, while others felt you were attacking. As just demonstrated, an "attack" is different for many people. I do not feel as though you or anyone has been attacked on this thread, but what I feel is not important, what you feel (or perceive) is, it's called compassion. Thus the idea of not wanting to painfully blunt to others as they may feel as though they are being attacked when they are not, like you stated happened on the other forum. I believe you stated that it is only an attack if someone is calling you a f*cking whore (such a yucky term) or such, but nobody here has done this, so why you feel the need to defend yourself, well, the same reason others felt that need on the other forum and in life.

 

[Ghostybear73]

Sleep well @Philippa

 

[scout86]

@Philippa for what it's worth, there was a point where, during your discussion with @catjudo , you "sounded" not only defensive, but angry. But, "tone" especially on the internet, is hard to read. I don't think @catjudo actually said "passive aggressive" back in the early part of that exchange. I think it was just "aggressive".

In the example you gave, of the suicidal person and the "demon hunter", personally, I don't think you did anything "wrong". You did something I probably wouldn't have done, but that doesn't make it WRONG. However, there are a lot of people in this world who DO think "something they wouldn't have done" is "wrong." (I happen to think they're WRONG. LOL) The reason I probably wouldn't have done it is I don't know the "demon hunter guy". I don't know how in touch with reality he is, or where he's coming from, and I'd be scared that I'd say the wrong thing and push him over an edge I don't even know is there. But, that's ME. It's not the "right way" to handle that, just "a way" to handle it. I can see where "calling him out" is potentially useful too.

Different people handle "being defensive" differently. For example, some see the best defense to be "run and hide" some see it as aggressively defending themselves. I'm sure there are lots of options. None of them are "right or wrong". They are just different. They are also manifestations of our old friends, "fight/flight/freeze", it just occurred to me.

It seems to me that a person who is very direct and blunt is often going to upset people who are easily threatened. I don't know that there's a right or wrong there either. It doesn't seem fair to say "You're just too sensitive!" (Now that I've said that, I'm remembering how often I heard that as a kid......) But, that doesn't mean it's wrong to be blunt and direct. Part of learning to play in the same sandbox is learning to accept these differences and deal with them, not let them take over and set off some wild fight/flight/freeze episode. That's important, if we're going to learn to live well in the rest of the world.

@Ghostybear73 , if you have problems with compassion and empathy, you could have fooled me! I'll be the kids all think you're "the cool teacher"!

@Philippa , I think the actual answer to your question is "Because they're people." I don't know about the other web site. I've seen a few sites where it looked to me like the people running them had some very strict ideas on "control" and things were pretty much "their way or the highway." I'm pretty comfortable with the rules here. From what I've seen things are usually fair and clear. The BEST thing I've seen here is when people keep trying to work through this stuff until they achieve understanding. To me, that's the best part of a disagreement. It gives you a chance to learn something about another person's point of view. Yes, you might teach someone something too, but, to me, the best thing is I get a chance to learn.

 

[Ghostybear73]

@scout86, thank you I am trying so hard. I have no problems with compassion in the classroom because I have control there. Not that you would notice, but I have control issues :)

That being said I do really well on the soccer field with a bunch of 8 year old girls, but again, I have control there as well because I am the coach. Here on the forum, its a come and go sort of thing and I find myself getting into (or starting) a conflict (less control). In real life, social situations, working in management (the other part of my job), etc., I suck at compassion. I don't communicate well and people find being around me to be........ uncomfortable, but I am working very hard at it!!!

 

[BlueOrange]

@Philippa , as a person who has been banned (temporarily, from this forum) for passive-aggressive behaviour, I perceive some similarities between what you've talked about in this thread and some of the thought patterns that get me into trouble.

One thing that I've seen is that you've asked a question I interpret as "Why do people perceive me as attacking when what I am trying to do is [something good]." The issue with this one is that people don't get to see what you're trying to do, the first thing that they see what your behaviour triggers in them. When trying to understand why people react the way that they do, it's not helpful to talk about your intent. The circumstances and specific actions are needed.

Secondly, this thread provides an example of someone feeling attacked. You used the word 'accuse', which I only see used by people who perceive an attack. When an effort was made to call you out on perceived passive-aggressive behaviour, you treated that effort as an accusation. I don't want to comment on the accuracy any of those statements, but I do want to point out that it provides an example where someone behaved as if they were under attack.

Thirdly, you started this thread with a general, abstract question, and followed up with specifics later on. In other forums, it's a very normal pattern. It's less normal in this forum, and is (I think) one of the behaviours that got me into trouble. It can be perceived as withholding information from the people trying to help you, and can be labelled passive-aggressive in this place.

 

[Hashi]

I'm not sure what the value is of trying to talk about other, unspecified forums and other, unspecified threads and reactions in particular - when we don't know what these are.

It took me a while to take in that this thread is general to "forums". There are so many forums, with different agendas, different guidelines and different levels of moderation. If there's been some sort of incident elsewhere, there's no way we can give an informed opinion if we have nothing but a slight report from only one side of the experience.

I have to be honest and say I don't think it's realistic to expect a helpful discussion on this forum about anything other than this forum, which we all know and are familiar with.

 

[BlueOrange]

@Hashi , I'm not sure that's 100% fair. We talk about relationships that we don't get to observe, and about parties. 'Another forum' is a venue for social interaction, and improving our ability to socialize generally is useful.

However, I did assume that the general question did apply to this forum. I think that discussing a specific example of a problem is almost always more useful than talking about a general problem. Having been told by someone on the Internet that they would use their psychic powers to kill me, I can relate to the example that has been floated. (In that case, I suspect that the person 'called out' felt that they were accused of being a fraud.)

 

[Hashi]

The question seems to me to centre around bluntness. I would count threats to kill (however realistic or unrealistic) as being outside a grey area of wondering whether or not this might be attacking behaviour.

Given how different various forums are, I'm not sure how it's possible to answer about "forums" in general, especially if there are then examples about particular threads on particular (unnamed) forums.

EDITED to add - actually, looking again at your post, I'm unclear whether you're saying that your response to that was considered attacking. If so, I'm lost - if someone makes a death threat then says your response is attacking, is that a reason for soul searching? Genuinely confused.

 

[Philippa]

I was not intending to get into scenarios that occurred on another forum. When I felt accused of being passive aggressive on the other forum, I then gave examples to put things in context. The original question I asked in my first post was about how others perceive "attack"...not "why am I being perceived as attacking others on forums". I wasn't even interested in going there. Catjudo decided to take me there though.

As far as I was concerned I felt quite confident that most of the times I was accused of attacking people, or being racist, there was actually nothing there that indicated an attack...just the triggers of others and other peoples thresholds. I'm not saying I never said anything that might trigger those feelings...I obviously did. I was snarky at times, but not all the time.

A lot of the time I was expressing my frustration at something being said, or someone not understanding what I was saying, and that got perceived as me attacking them. If I was angry, it was not about the interaction I was having, but it's possible anger leaked out and got infused in the interaction, without me being too aware of it?


I am not denying that I was feeling defensive over having it implied that I was being passive aggressive. I can see I was.

 

[Philippa]

@Philippa for what it's worth, there was a point where, during your discussion with @catjudo , you "sounded" not only defensive, but angry. But, "tone" especially on the internet, is hard to read. I don't think @catjudo actually said "passive aggressive" back in the early part of that exchange. I think it was just "aggressive".

I think if you go back and read it again you will clearly see the words "passive aggressive".

I was not feeling angry, but this was another thing I would be accused of on the other forum...being angry, when I wasn't...at least not about what was being said.

My father is from Malta though, and when I was there I thought all the natives were very aggressive in the way they speak, and even my grandparents I thought hated each other, but they were apparently just speaking normally for them...so there's that?

Some nationalities have a lot of aggression in them. A friend of mine is from serbia and she is a very aggressive person...has a lot of anger in her, which is probably not abnormal given that she comes from a warzone.

In the example you gave, of the suicidal person and the "demon hunter", personally, I don't think you did anything "wrong". You did something I probably wouldn't have done, but that doesn't make it WRONG. However, there are a lot of people in this world who DO think "something they wouldn't have done" is "wrong." (I happen to think they're WRONG. LOL) The reason I probably wouldn't have done it is I don't know the "demon hunter guy".

I see what you are saying, however, the wacky thing about that was that the people hassling me about saying what I said to him, were too busy reprimanding me, and no one actually thought about the suicidal person who was reading the thread. Other may not have said that, but I'm the sort of person that will say something if it needs to be said.

It seems to me that a person who is very direct and blunt is often going to upset people who are easily threatened. I don't know that there's a right or wrong there either. It doesn't seem fair to say "You're just too sensitive!" (Now that I've said that, I'm remembering how often I heard that as a kid......) But, that doesn't mean it's wrong to be blunt and direct.

I'm very aware that it rubs many people the wrong way. I'm also aware that I get along better with people who appreciate directness...which is most of the male population for one thing.

Part of learning to play in the same sandbox is learning to accept these differences and deal with them, not let them take over and set off some wild fight/flight/freeze episode. That's important, if we're going to learn to live well in the rest of the world.

Yes, and there are many contexts in which I am capable of adapting and not being blunt, if I can see the person is unable to handle bluntness. Online it is harder to know until I actually try it. I don't expect to play well with every single person in the world.

I'm pretty comfortable with the rules here. From what I've seen things are usually fair and clear. The BEST thing I've seen here is when people keep trying to work through this stuff until they achieve understanding. To me, that's the best part of a disagreement. It gives you a chance to learn something about another person's point of view. Yes, you might teach someone something too, but, to me, the best thing is I get a chance to learn.

Sure, though I have not seen many people who accuse others of attacking them, actually take a look at themselves and consider that it might be them here. I don't know if they did offline and just didn't mention it here though...

 

[scout86]

I don't know if they did offline and just didn't mention it here though...

I think that's actually a hard thing for a lot of people to do. (Either think about it OR mention it.) And, I admire you for posting this thread and working your way through it.

I had a conversation with my T once where he had described a situation and I said, "I'd probably run out of the room!" He laughed and said, "Leaving is ok, as long as you come back." I've thought about that quite a bit. Good point, really. We all benefit from learning how to deal with a variety of people. I find a lot of the things you contribute here to be very interesting. But, now and then, I have to remind myself that your style is just exactly that. When you say something, you may well not mean what I would have meant by the same thing. The more practice I get at doing that, the better I get at doing it. And, YOU are definitely NOT the only person I have to do that with. I have to do it a lot, with an assortment of personality types.

I'm not surprised when you say that, on the other forum, everyone went after you and dropped both concern for "demon hunter guy" AND the poor person who was in trouble to begin with! I've seen that, but I don't get it at all. (I think I would have cringed at Demon Hunter's post, then ignored him and addressed OP, but who knows?)

 

[joeylittle]

People often forget the difference between what they believe and who they are.
I think this is what happens when they "feel attacked" and the supposed attack-er doesn't see why.

I can say that I think inner child work is a waste of time.
And someone could say that inner child work changed their life.
And I could say I don't believe that could happen.
And they could say they are being attacked.

They are conflating their beliefs with their identity, and thinking I'm saying they are a liar, when I'm not. It would be an attack if I said "you are lying about inner child work" - because then, it's personal.

I think it's good for people with PTSD to learn to separate thoughts from feelings, and both from identity. As in, "I think I'm worthless" isn't actually a fact. It's a thought that leads to feeling bad, and feeling bad then gets mis-interpreted as the fact of my existence, I feel bad and therefore am bad, wrong...worthless. We keep ourselves stuck unless we find a way to change the thought-feeling-state cycle.

Practicing not taking things personally - really reading what is written and not confusing argument with personal criticism: that's what is worthwhile.

Or, more plainly put: calling someone's idea stupid is not the same as calling the person stupid. Having my beliefs criticized is not the same as someone criticizing me.

Because tone is impossible on the Internet, it's incumbent on everyone to be really aware if how easy it is to get reactive, and try and be smart about their language and their listening. That doesn't mean "be soft" about their language - just be clear. Interrogate the idea first. And when listening, don't assume you are being attacked, because you're not being attacked 99% of the time - your ideas are being questioned, that's all.