General Your Own Space

[LoyalOne]

Yah, so I've heard. From Tankers. (giggle)

I visited Sgt at the barracks once when got back, and while we were hanging out, some baby-faced LCpl was always bouncing up to him and asking work questions. They would converse in acronyms, hilariously colorful slang and $&%^ing expletives for a few minutes, the LCpl would lope away, and Sgt would go right back to lady-approved English. It was sort of charming.

 

[Zipperhead]

We use acronyms? What kind of BS is that. Let's go down the the SQ and see if there are any PAMs IOT help you decipher the slang. PBQ.

 

[Navy Spouse]

Acronyms! My husband wonders why I have a confused look on my face when he's sharing his military stories.

 

[LoyalOne]

In any case, I think that vets just have a different mindset due to their extensive training. The military mindset is different from the civilian one, famously so. While PTSD may be the same (with variations on a theme) disorder across the board, with veterans you have a subset of the populace who started out approaching life from a different direction.

Also, I think the vets tend to suffer the effects of their training - their training is designed to inure them to the effects of trauma, and then they are sent deliberately to experience trauma, so when they 'fail' and can't cope, it produces a slightly different set of emotions.

I can wake up sweating at night and tell myself; 'It's okay - it wasn't your fault - rape is not normal. He stole something from you, and if only you had reported it, he would have been hunted down and smashed for committing theft of innocence; you are not the bad person here.'

My Sgt tells himself; 'This IS my fault. When people want a rock, I am supposed to be that rock. I eat lightning and crap thunder. I am a US Marine. Marines can do ANYTHING. If I can't do everything, I am a BAD MARINE,' which is the same to him as saying he might as well eat his rifle. He feels that this is his job, this is what he was trained for, and if he can't handle it, he is a F Up of the highest order. He doesn't feel he has the luxury of being able to say; 'This person who did this to me was bad.'

He is not the victim of a crime; he was made into a killer and sent to commit terrible acts on purpose, and lived in a setting where he was praised for doing it properly. He is split between things he did, things done to him, and things he saw.

So yeah - the disorder might be the same, but there are definitely different flavors. I am not putting degrees of awfulness on it, or suggesting that people can't empathize, but I do see a difference.

 

[May1321]

I have a question if I may? I do not wish to offend or upset anyone but I am curious as to what you (or many of you) believe to be different about PTSD caused by combat as opposed to PTSD brought on by other situations.

No offense at all. This is really a great conversation, and because I think it is extremely valuable all areas of the disorder sufferers and supporters just because we can learn ways to cope from everyone especially in forms of just patience and communication with each other.

I have to agree my thinking is more as what you mentioned about a comfort level to some extent especially when first coming to find out this disorder is in your life, be it a supporter or sufferer no matter how it came to you. IT does help to know you aren't alone.

However, a big part of my belief the difference is as Loyal says...

While PTSD may be the same (with variations on a theme) disorder across the board, with veterans you have a subset of the populace who started out approaching life from a different direction.

My boyfriend (also originally a Tanker and proud of it ;)) is a "trained" individual for a job, so he is "trained" to have some of these affects of PTSD, they weren't all brought on by an uncontrollable source. The level of his PTSD and the variety of his symptoms that do relate more to a sufferer who hasn't been to war obvious have increased because of how much combat he has seen, how many years he's served, how many lives he's taken, how many lives were taken around him, and being blown up before being sent home. After being married to my ex husband 10 years ago who had 12 years of service under his belt but never in combat, to my brother who served a year in Iraq as well as some other mini security deployments around the U.S. yet he only fired his gun once, to now my boyfriend, they have A LOT of similarities that I can learn from everyone on, but I can tell my brother something that my boyfriend does that my brother can't even imagine doing because his level of PTSD isn't as "bad" as my boyfriend's diagnoses.

Whether the guys are out of basic, overseas, different branches of the military, or you are a domestic sufferer of rape, child abuse, etc. Yes... there are TONS of similarities that we can all learn from especially in regards I believe to how a sufferer heals, medicates, manages, communicates.

But some of the tools I need aren't found in a general PTSD book and do relate to combat specific, like recently I asked about "once a soldier, always a solder" job specific things that just seem in short... abnormal to civilian life. It's not just jumpy at the gun range, or crowds, or driving down the road afraid of other drivers... it's how do I get my boyfriend out of combat mode. Disarming him, in a way. So those two things are in short a bit of the difference that it helps to talk specific combat ptsd with others, and still sometimes, I find it hard to get an answer or understanding of it.

 

[LoyalOne]

Awesome post, May.

Yes, this.

it's how do I get my boyfriend out of combat mode. Disarming him, in a way.

Yeah. I need help on how to counteract years of intensive war training and mitigate a deep-seated agony of loyalty to unit mates who are still in harm's way. His learned behavior has gone from being praiseworthy and necessary to preserve his and others' lives and limbs to being a liability, a flaw. A constant punishment in his head.

And yes - his therapist (if he had one, more bitter hahas) is the one who is supposed to help him work through his issues, got it. But in practical day to day matters, I need help not making it worse. And I like having people who know what I mean, or who have been dealing with it for way longer, and know what works for them, at least.

 

[May1321]

His learned behavior has gone from being praiseworthy and necessary to preserve his and others' lives and limbs to being a liability, a flaw. A constant punishment in his head.

It's the demon being embedded in someone's innocent soul vs. protecting the demons from those of innocence. Each is a victim of circumstance but there is a reason they are soldiers. They volunteer to brave the scar to protect us from the bad people that hurt everyone here. I don't think it's a pride thing or a seperation thing. We can all learn a ton from each other, but maybe slightly there are different challenges because of the way it was brought on.

Bear said it perfectly once. Something such as We too as supporters are here to band together to support all and would do anything for any of the sufferers so they don't have to feel the pain everyone feels. But I would probably be here as a sufferer, too, and in some cases I know supporters have become sufferers because of how much they've taken on, if I had to do the things my guy had to do to protect evil from spreading :( My boyfriends dreams aren't about being attacked by people in traditional war; his recurring nightmare is not being able to protect his fellow soldiers from black spirits... Yes. it's your right out of the best graphic imagination super horror flick :( :(

 

[LoyalOne]

Yes. Exactly. Like that.

 

[amethist]

Hi Jet

I have just had a quick scout round the combat PTSD Forum, and found this article.

[DLMURL]http://combat.ptsdforum.org/threads/ptsd-training-extreme-anger.168/[/DLMURL]

I was trying to find something I read a few years ago, which explained about the different Stress Cup's, one for military PTSD and one for all the rest.

Basically it said that the Military Stress Cup had an extra level in it, the Military Training, I think. with a button at the side.

Always on alert all ways ready for action. One PTSD Stress Cup would over flow with too much added stress, whilst a military one, could explode without warning. A bit like a bomb ready to go off at anytime without warning

And this is where I think the difference comes in. If I am wrong then someone will put me right with it. :tup:

 

[May1321]

A bit like a bomb ready to go off at anytime without warning

Funny how analogies come to your brain as you talk yourself through symptoms you notice... I think that is the nail on the head, Amethist!

I was thinking "pins and needles" as if my sufferer is a balloon... in normal conditions he is fine with the slight pressure me as a 'pin' is resting against him but the moment he gets to hot a.k.a. stressed, that balloon starts to expand with pressure and I'm just added pressure now. My job is to do what I can so I don't pop him being the first and easiest to kick out of the picture, and in some ways he attempts to prevent this because he hasn't figured out how to adjust to the other pins and needles (family, work, responsibilities, his ptsd, etc.) adding to his stress that it's easier to shut his brain off to me and our relationship along with those responsibilities before I essentially pop him and he rids himself of me forever.

As a supporter, we have to figure out together where I should be placed but he is a 'bomb about to explode' and the only way I can help is by learning to not dig deeper into the surface when he's starting to expand yet take a breath and step back out of shrapnel's way till he's "diffused".

 

[Nicolette]

Ok..... Let me just clarify the facts (while on a phone with quoting painful):

My poll idea:

• Had nothing to do with any Sufferer (including anything you had written Zipperhead and it was only from Supporter comments that the thought came to me)

• Had no intention of creating a 'Club'

• Was thought of only for ease of reference - just a categorization

• Had no intention of being private - for Supporters only

• Was motivated by finding/reading posts of Combat Supporters trying to locate others as while PTSD is the same, there are subtle differences in hypervigilance & stressors/triggers with Combat PTSD as outlined in Anthony's 'Understanding PTSD' article pdf attached to [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/understanding-ptsd-by-anthony-parsons.13878/.[/DLMURL]

Amethist's link is probably relevant also but I can't read it now but her thinking would be where mine was going and the intention behind my questionnaire/poll.

Please note that just because their is a poll asking a question doesn't automatically open a door. A positive response of only 8 (from memory) with the forum having thousands of members IS NOT a overwhelming reaction to support any suggestion, idea or proposed change.

My mistake was bringing it public before Anthony had shared his view - I had posted in the staff area for staff to discuss first.

The decision has been made - this thread is going around in circles discussing a subject made on assumptions. These are your answers to why there was a poll and nothing else.

As Anthony closed the other thread due to no changes happening, this is now a moot point.

 

[Jet]

I know about the training issue...I tried to explain this to a friend who has combat related PTSD and he looked at me like I was nuts. Although I had not read the military stress cup article it makes perfect sense to me that it would be that way.

Possibly my perceptions are a bit different based on my trauma(s). My ex is a monster...if he was born with a conscience it was destroyed long ago (however the last dx I heard was that he is a sociopath). He tried to kill me on many occasion (premeditated and in fits of rage) and has said more then once that the only reason I am still alive is that is because it is more fun this way.

However, by far the worst thing he ever did (to me) was target my children as a way to torment/punish me. As a mother my job was to protect them from harm and I did everything in my power to do that (short of killing him). I called the police, attempted to leave (went to shelters), put myself in front of my children and allowed him to beat on me (in order to draw his attention away from the kids). However when push came to shove those efforts failed miserably. Because he was a confidential informant he was allowed to work off charges instead of being held responsible for his actions and often the police simply looked the other way and did not even bother to write a report. In the end, when we were involved in the court system he was allowed to simply sign off on the kids and walk away - no one even called him an abuser. Yet because I loved my kids and fought to have them back with me I was labeled as a bad mom who "allowed" the abuse to take place. I spent two years being told how everything I did was wrong, that I did not try to protect them and that I was apathetic...In the end I came to the conclusion that I (and my girls) were completely alone and on our own - the entire system was working against us (for instance I was told that once the girls were in my custody again I would not be allowed to leave state with them because he never signed off on the baby and state law prohibited a parent from taking a child more then 100 miles [or out of state] from the non custodial parent). I released them for adoption in 2000 and have spent the last 11 years hating and punishing myself for my failure. He went on to have more children and is currently in prison for sexually assaulting his 6 year old daughter.

I never thought that the spouses/supporters of military/veterans were being exclusionary or separatists. More like some may feel that the actual PTSD is different (as opposed to symptoms or quirks related to individual trauma) and that possibly because of that some might feel alone or that the only people who could or would even attempt to understand would be those who were in pretty much the same situation (spouse/supporter of military/vet).

I have seen a few posts that say things like why would someone who is non military (or not a supporter of) want to read posts about military or combat related PTSD. My answer is that it hurts my heart to see someone who has sacrificed so much hurting in such a way. Knowing that many may feel as if they have been tossed aside or thrown away, that no one understands or appreciates what they have had to give up to protect us from the horrors that lurk beyond our knowledge or sight.

I can't give them back what they have lost, I can't take away their experiences or the damage they have caused. But if I can offer a few kind words, some understanding and compassion...if I can give someone a moment of hope, help them hang on a bit longer, let them know that their efforts and sacrifices are recognized and appreciated...then maybe I have done a small something...