Just Triggered Or A Dealbreaker?

[Cult]

It's going to be really hard for me to post this message. Thank you in advance for reading it. I am in a troubled same sex marriage and I am undecided as to what to do about my situation.

We are both in therapy, I am working on trauma related stuff, I don't know what my W is working on. She gives me sketchy overviews but doesn't go into detail.

I have massive attachment issues. I am willing to be very loyal up to a point but my love is highly conditional. When I reach the point of being "done" I am done forever - I mean, FOREVER. In my mind I have one foot out the door at all times and I'm always prepared to move on and start over. This has always been true, has to do with my damage.

My wife can be very impulsive, unpredictable, and mean. She can also be very sweet and loving. Our marriage is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation (my dad was the same way) and over time I am sad to say I have begun to engage some of these same behaviors. My W will attack me when she behaves badly, and when I behave badly, it is in response to my W. I am normally a gentle person who tries to be diplomatic. So I am triggered by her and can become abusive when retaliating against what I consider to be abuse by her. For example, her anxiety about an unrelated issue will spike, she will attack what I am wearing, to the point of mocking me, calling me stupid for wearing whatever I have on, telling me she is embarrassed to be seen with me, etc. In response I will threaten to leave her and tell her let's just get divorced if you are this unhappy, to which she will become very upset and proclaim her undying love for me and refusal to even consider ending our M. This scenario happened a few days ago.

This used to happen far more frequently until finally, a few months ago, I told her if she did not start therapy I would be leaving. She got into therapy and things have been much better until this week. She is stressing out about non-relationship issues and she takes her anxiety out on me making things worse between us.

Yesterday we had another blowout, our third in the last week, which even for us is a lot of fighting. We watched a TV show where one character had to decide whether or not to have an affair with a man who was married to someone with Alzheimer's Disease. At the end, she announced that she didn't think "there was anything wrong" with having an affair in that situation and that if I "became a vegetable" and she became lonely after a certain amount of time dealing with my illness, that I would "understand that (she) needed companionship." I hit the roof and we have been fighting ever since. To me this is virtually a deal breaker, marriage is forever and you do not abandon your spouse when they become ill. There are many ways to get support and "companionship" other than seeking out a sexual/romantic relationship outside a marriage. To me she has basically announced her intention to do what she damn well pleases if I ever become incapacitated enough not to know any better.

My W obviously has a very different take, or so it seems to me. She is trying to back out of it, claiming she didn't say what I know damn well she said. As background, my W had affairs in her first (heterosexual) marriage, has abandoned animals at the pound (more than I know, I am an animal lover and she knows how that would tarnish my opinion of her, I am aware of 2 cats that she abandoned and her children, from whom she is estranged because she abandoned them, too, have alluded to the fact that more cats and possibly dogs were also abandoned). The point being that this small conversation at the end of a TV show seems to me to have revealed a deep truth about my W that is causing me to question whether this is someone I can remain with.

My question to you all is: is this an abandonment trigger or is this a real issue?

 

[DharmaGirl]

From what you've said, she is abusive. Period. Do you want to stay with an abusive person? Of course she is kind and nice and she is also abusive. You have to decide whether you want to live with that kind of abuse or not.

 

[Lucycat]

To me this is virtually a deal breaker, marriage is forever and you do not abandon your spouse when they become ill.

I agree - to a point. I have told my husband that if I became a 'vegetable' I would be more than happy for him to seek companionship - romantic or otherwise - elsewhere. After all I would not know so I don't see that as abandonment.

We have a friend Mr M, whose wife is in a care home with advanced Alzheimers. He is nothing more than a friend, but nonetheless he asked our permission to enter another relationship with a woman he met. I said I fully supported him - it was really none of my business, but he needed to know that we would not judge him. That new relationship did not last long, but he never abandoned his wife . He continued to visit her regardless. The care home is 50 miles away and he is 80, but he goes to see her every week. She does not know him or anybody else.I have visited a few times and it is really difficult to have a conversation with yourself in these situations. I respect what he has done for his wife, but he also has to take care of himself. He could live another lonely 20 years or more.

 

[Mytime]

I don't know your W, but in my opinion I feel it's a trigger. Your fighting over a t.v show. We can all say, I would do A B C if this happened. But the truth is you don't know till it really happens. Your mind can tell you how it's going to feel.
But the truth is, it can't unless you experiences it. You seem to feel she abandons everything and everyone.

So I have to ask, you knew all this before you married her, so why did you marry her?
Please make sure you not deflecting.

As for threatening to divorce because your upset or not getting what you want
Is manipulating and hurtful no matter who's saying it. In my opinion, the only time it should be said in a marriage is
when you mean it, as in ' I feel we need to do couples therapy, so we don't end up divorce ' or ' I'm sorry I can no longer stay in our marriage. I want a divorce '.

In relationships we can be on and off again or learn how to fight. ( disagree)
Seeing it from both perspectives. Looking at your actions, because there the only thing you can change.
Wishing you the best:)

 

[Sandstone]

marriage is forever and you do not abandon your spouse

I will threaten to leave her and tell her let's just get divorced

Do you expect it to be forever for both of you, or are you only demanding that level of commitment from one party?

It does sound as if you are both struggling with a lot, but you need to be able to have a calm conversation, possibly mediated, about what level of commitment each of you is really willing to give.

 

[claroscuro]

I was in a very similar relationship before, and after many years of reflection after it ended I came to the conclusion that if we had learned to communicate better things may have worked out. Have you read Dr Glenda Corwin's Sexual Intimacy for Women? Don't be thrown by the title, it has a strong focus on learning better communication skills within relationships, and even some of my heterosexual friends have found it useful.

I would also consider entering into couples therapy to try and resolve this behavior and the problems it causes. My wife and I do combined sessions every few months to make sure we're still on the same page, and have found this not only tremendously helpful, but it's also helped to strengthen our bond.

I do hope you two manage to find a way to resolve your problems, and I commend you for not just throwing in the towel. Sometimes things are resolvable, and other times it's best to end things in the least painful way possible. Whichever option is right here is only for you two to decide, and I hope you find the clarity to make it.

 

[Justmehere]

Neither.

The ways both of you have handled differences of opinion is ineffective and escalatory and I think there is the possibility of room to explore more interpretations and solutions than stay as is or leave.

Others have addressed her actions.

Your way of communicating things do send a message that you don't value investing in the relationship yourself - maybe you do value this a lot, but that's not the message you give her when your solution to every disagreement is to threaten to abandon the relationship entirely. If I'm in a relationship and the other party responds to every disagreement with threatened abandonment, I would think they didn't value the relationship much. This doesn't excuse her behavior and hurtful comments either.

She is in the wrong as well. Let me make that clear: her comments were inappropriate as well. They were clearly really hurtful to you and the commitment you have made to each other. But you have both threatened or said you would leave the relationship in a way that isn't constructive or leading to change.

I don't think this is a case that she's all at fault and you should leave or that you are just triggered and things should stay just as they are.

That's a very black and white way of looking at it, and PTSD tends to promote black and white thinking.

You are both triggering each other through hurtful ways of communicating differences of opinion and escalatory ways of setting boundaries.

I see this as grounds to perhaps explore couples counseling or other ways to build your communication skills together. Both of you need to work on setting and keeping boundaries better, and learn how to better respect each other's choices and opinions better.

This is of course just based on the limited info you have given here, and I'm not saying you should tolerate her being hurtful towards you.

 

[St.Maybe]

I'm really sorry that you're dealing with this kind of situation with your wife... I can tell you both really love each other, but your own personal issues and stresses seem to have caused the both of you to act out against one another... of course that's not an effective way to manage those issues and I applaud you both for entering therapy. The abuse appears to be mutual, and I respect your need to care for yourself as well as your careful consideration of what would be a life-altering decision for the both of you.

Sometimes, the road to getting better is rocky. Okay, I'd venture to say that all the time, the road to getting better/healing/improvement is rocky. So things are likely to appear to move both backwards and forwards at times as the two of you get better together... it isn't easy to be a part of a two-piece unit, period. So when each individual piece requires extra attention and repair- it's just that much more energy that has to go into the whole situation... it's more than hard. It's more than exhausting. It's more than scary. And it's really difficult to gauge how to strike a healthy balance within an unhealthy situation as you aim at transforming it into something worthy of the best of both of you.

I've never been married, and my parents separated when I was young, so perhaps I'm not qualified to give relationship advice but I would still say that both parties need to be all-in for this enormous effort to be successful. It's hard to balance being patient with yourself and your partner while also re-establishing and solidifying boundaries and ground rules that may have been broken down, misunderstood, or poorly established early on. You both have so many priorities to balance between your individual health and the health of your marriage- I think you both get that your individual health has to thrive for your shared health to flourish.

This is where patience comes in. I think you and your wife should either enter counseling together, or each seek input from your therapists about maintaining a healthy relationship in light of your individual struggles. Take the time to have safe and constructive conversations with your wife- go to a place in the house where you begin with expressing your love and mutually agree that you'll both do your best not to allow the discussion to escalate... talk about how you'll respond lovingly, how you'll work it out together, if tempers to rise... and once you've done all the work to establish a reasonably safe space, identify those behaviors in each other that qualify as abuse. Write them down. Agree not to argue about them, but maybe get written explanations for any that you have the instinct to argue about. And know that there will be times that one or the other of you will have their head more fully "in the game," so to speak. Sometimes you'll have to remind your partner that they themselves are better than the behavior they're engaging in... sometimes your partner will have to remind you.

When you have enough of a handle on yourself to do so, refuse very clearly to engage in abusive behavior. When your wife is engaging in abusive behavior, tell her you refuse to engage in abuse behavior and that you know she's better than that, even if things are hard right now and everything she's feeling is hard to to make peace through.

I've gone on rambling with ideas of what might help- I get that I haven't answered your question about whether you're dealing with a trigger or a deal-breaker, and please understand that despite the way I've phrased the above suggestions, suggestions they are. I think only you can know if you're dealing with a trigger or a deal-breaker, but it seems like this whole living and loving arrangement is a trigger-happy situation for the both of you. You, yourself, appear to me to be in fight-or-flight mode, and I know from experience that it's hard to think ones way out of that to see the great potential of the present situation to change. I guess a good question might be whether or not the potential of your marriage to transform and strengthen is worth the enormous effort you both will have to put out, together, at once, full speed ahead, to address individual- and couple-issues together. If so, it's important for each of you to know that you'll both be picking up the slack at times.

I think that if you do both agree to try, and both have shared overarching goals or your relationship, then you'll get an idea of whether or not things are working because your long-term, overall progress and problem-solving will either strengthen or weaken and tell you that you either need to modify your approach here or there, here or there, here or there... or move on, for any number of reasons.

 

[Cult]

Thank you for all the feedback. It has been most helpful. I know that my underlying trauma etc is a big part of why I feel and behave the way that I do not only with my wife but in all areas.

My W has consistently refused couples counseling, I asked again today and she was very emphatic that she was not interested. She gave no reason today but in the past, her reason has been that she doesn't want other people to know we are having problems serious enough to require counseling. She also thinks I am the one with the problem and blames it on my moods swinging a lot due to perimenopause. These symptoms do cause me to react more impulsively/emotionally however they are not "the" problem.

With that said after her last outburst where she insulted my clothing (and me) she did apologize and admit (unprompted) that she was out of line which is a big improvement, and which I attribute to her individual counseling. But I agree that reacting as opposed to working proactively on communicating better is not the long term answer.

I also agree that I have to decide if I am truly committed to the marriage, the answer honestly is IDK at this point in time, part of my damage is that I am very ambivalent but at the same time demand fealty from others, which is obviously unfair and sets everyone up to fail. My trauma based wiring controls my behavior. I guess I need to focus on improving that before I can have a shot at a functional relationship with anyone.

 

[Sideways]

If you put it to your W that she sek therapy or else you'll get a divorce, in an ideal world one might give their W a little longer than a few weeks before deciding that change isn't happening fast enough..??

 

[Justmehere]

This is really hard stuff to work through when two people in a marriage are triggering each other. I commend your thoughtfulness and all your efforts to figure this all out.

I struggle with ambivalent attachment. I really struggle to not run from committed relationships. It's extra hard when there is conflict and/or I'm triggered, and/or the other person is being a bit of a jerk at times. My battle comes out a bit differently, but I can relate to how hard some of this might feel.

My W has consistently refused couples counseling, I asked again today and she was very emphatic that she was not interested. She gave no reason today but in the past, her reason has been that she doesn't want other people to know we are having problems serious enough to require counseling. She also thinks I am the one with the problem and blames it on my moods swinging a lot due to perimenopause. These symptoms do cause me to react more impulsively/emotionally however they are not "the" problem.

That is tough. It seems like her boundary/limit is no couples counseling right now. It's only the counselor that would know you are both struggling, so I'm guessing that there is more behind her hesitation about admitting you are both struggling.

Seeing her defensiveness about admitting the marriage is in trouble might be a sign she is scared of exactly that reality happening. The more fear a person has about something happening, but doesn't have the skills to deal with it, the more they tend to be defensive or in denial about it.

If you can find anything positive thing to validate right now, it might help her soften up over time and be less defensive about considering counseling. I know, this is a hella hard thing to do when feeling ready to run. It can actually help both sides to do this.

You might get further if you phrase it in a really positive way too. Like, "I really want to be able to better communicate with you and hear you out more." It's not saying you are committed no matter what, but might help give her a positive reason to explore an option about different ways you can mutually handle these things.

Another option is to use a skill they teach in DBT, which is to "turn the tables" and ask her to think of some suggestions for what you can both do to learn better communication skills between the two of you.

At the end of the day, you won't be able to change her, only she can, and that will take time. It is huge step forward that she is in individual counseling. And it's also realistic to know that you are at the end of your limits too, and there needs to be space for you as well.

I also agree that I have to decide if I am truly committed to the marriage, the answer honestly is IDK at this point in time, part of my damage is that I am very ambivalent but at the same time demand fealty from others, which is obviously unfair and sets everyone up to fail.

It's good to recognize this. It doesn't relieve her of her responsibility for her actions, but it's good to work on these underlying patterns. Leaving the relationship, or even telling her you want to do so, it's a way to keep her at a distance. Maybe it would help to find other ways to set boundaries that are less severe when you are triggered? One thing that's helped me ride through ambivalence is to get grounded whenever I want to run, and try to find any ways to delay decisions, and even communicating about possible decisions, to run. It doesn't mean I always stay in the relationship endlessly, but it means I buy myself time and space to get out of a triggered headspace before I even communicate the possibility to run. Things don't seem to spiral as far once I started doing this more.

My trauma based wiring controls my behavior. I guess I need to focus on improving that before I can have a shot at a functional relationship with anyone.

I'm going to gently challenge you a little on this. It's a little bit of another type of cognitive distortion of catastrophizing. Trauma does influence us, and our ways of thinking. Whenever you catch yourself saying "always" or "never" types of words, including "anyone" (or "no one"), I suggest trying to pause and see if there is another possible conclusion. Just even to begin to loosen up new pathways in the brain, not because you will believe any other possible thoughts. Even throwing in the word "almost" can help pull the brain out of a triggered state. Like "almost anyone." Beginning to challenge thoughts (in a trauma focused CBT way) is a way to begin to shift some of these very trauma based ways of thinking and relating to others.

Abivalence sucks, and it can be very hard to navigate it's push and pulls to build healthy relationships with other fallible people, but it's not a deal breaker for all human relationships. Isolating from all human relationships actually tends to make it worse, so try to hang wherever there is a little safer connection.

 

[Friday]

In my own life I have learned that no matter how justified I feel in the moment? When I'm triggered, the person in front of me, doesn't deserve even 1% of the reaction. Like using a hand grenade as a flyswatter. If triggered? I need to check myself. Hard.