The "f" Word Will Help You Heal!!

[joeylittle]

No one on the forum is obligated to accept the point of view of any other member.

Differing points of view are welcome.

Respect is paramount. Respect does not mean 'agree'; in fact, it often means 'agree to disagree'.

@Geoffry777 - you are walking a line that borders on prostletizing when you enforce your beliefs on others.

You are repeatedly telling members 'I love you', in many threads. This over-personalizes the notion of loving all mankind in the name of Christ (I believe that's what you mean). It is a presumption of intimacy that does not exist in a multi-faith space. There are other, less intimate ways of offering support while still being true to yourself.

No, no one is obligated to listen to you. They can just as easily use ignore.

We are, in turn, not obligated to host anyone who is enforcing their beliefs on others in ways that generate repeat reports from members.

MyPTSD is not a faith-based forum. This does not mean that we prohibit faith-based points of view; it does mean that we function best as a community by operating on common ground, which is secular by default, due to the presence of so many differing belief systems.

Please review the community constitution. If you have questions, follow up in the help desk.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

Peace, Love And Understanding Lyrics (recorded by Elvis Costello)

As i walk through
This wicked world
Searchin' for light in the darkness of insanity.

I ask myself
Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?

And each time i feel like this inside,
There's one thing i wanna know:
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh

see link for full lyrics
[URL='http://Link Removed[/URL]

 

[Deleted member 28740]

Forgiveness for me is not exoneration, it is a purging process. A process I do for myself, and it is hard work. The 'other' the abuser' I do not spend time on. I do not have to give the bag of rocks back. Just lighten the load pebble by pebble. Hard it bringing each pebble (some a re big rocks) up from down deep. Try to close eyes and drop by the way side. Not easy. Necessary.

 

[Sandstone]

Oh yes! Self forgiveness sounds like a very positive direction to be able move in. As I posted above though, it is the practical technique for doing it that is so elusive.

 

[Suzetig]

Self forgiveness, for me, is closely linked with self compassion and is incredibly difficult for me because there are many parts of what happened to me that I've been told I was responsible for or that I think I'm responsible for because of the choices I made. The thing that slowly seems to be making a difference is really looking at my childhood through adult eyes, eg what I would expect of a child at that age, and putting myself in the place. It's very painful at times because of the realisation of how vulnerable I was with few people keeping me safe, it it also allows me to show compassion to that part of me that still carries blame.

Reminding myself that I did the best I could with the resources available to me, and that it was other people's job to keep me safe helps me be softer to myself, more forgiving.

 

[scout86]

Let me start by saying that I think of myself as "Christian" even though other people who call themselves Christians occasionally tell me I can't be.

Here's my take on "forgiveness" when it comes to the truly difficult to forgive.

It's my belief that God loves everyone, like the hypothetical "good parent". Doesn't matter how you behave, God loves you. But we can choose our behavior and our paths in life. We can choose to ask for forgiveness. Or not. God's not going to force anyone to ask. It's just in God's nature to desire to forgive and to wait for it to be asked. I don't believe God randomly forgives. I don't believe you can earn forgiveness, but I believe you need to genuinely ask for it.

There's a passage in scripture that says (more or less) what ever we bind on earth will be bound in heaven and what ever we free on earth will be freed in heaven. I take that to mean, if I want retribution, all I have to do is tell God, "Nope, not forgiving that! Let the SOB burn in Hell." and it will be so. (But, I'm not God. I have no clue how that approach will be received.) So, I've considered, with the truly despicable people, do I actually want them to burn in hell for all eternity? Am I really THAT much better than they are? My own answer, for my own self, is that no, that's not what I want. I want them to have a chance. So my message to God is "They're yours, do with them what you will." I actually pray that they ask for forgiveness. I hope they do, but that's between them and God. If those people reach a point in their own evolution where they truly see their errors and truly feel remorse, I probably could forgive them. (I've just not going to hold my breath because I actually KNOW these people.)

I, personally, am not forgiving them unless they actually ask ME. Then I'd think about it. For myself, in my every day life, it's WAY more what @joeylittle describes as "acceptance". That's what I think I need to work on for my own self and the rest of this life here.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm late to the party here, but it is an interesting thread. My opinion is not worth much- I don't t really have a problem forgiving, but there are times the opposite can lay dormant & surprise me that I have not forgiven something. But then, I think of that as my own resentment to work on. I suppose just because I have done much that could / would need to be forgiven, or I just don't feel inclined to throw stones. My mom said even as a very small child I tried to make things peaceful between others fighting, would crawl up in between them in their lap. So maybe I selfishly want peace. I once remember being so grateful over a negative medical test result for my mom (though she was still terminal), I forgave everybody everything. Couldn't have cared less what they'd done.

I think (I may not have read it here yet, as I haven't read all posts must rush), it can be hard to forgive. I read somewhere justice should accompany it. But I'm glad I haven't always got what I deserved, personally. :( I just want to get on with it, heal.

I can't think of a group of Christians who didn't want me to compromise my own values and beliefs to be part of their church, who could sustain any level of dissent or disagreement or where my way of being wasn't wrong.

Those churches (or the peoples' attitudes in them) suck IMHO. @Suzetig . As a 'Christian' I apologize on their behalf. :( The very first saint in Christianity was the thief on the cross. Sounds to me you're the bigger person to not tell them all off. (Now that is forgiveness. :( ) Idk, I kind of get a 'kick' out of being the odd-ball in church, ;) .

I see precious little of it in action. I see a lot of denial, delusion and conflict avoidance but they aren't the same thing as forgiveness.

Exactly. ^^ Nope. I think it's closer to open-heartedness & perspective. And not necessary for healing, but lessens the load when no longer needed.

To me the best part of forgiveness is feeling, "what does it matter, (now especially)? Carry on."

.toughen up methinks.

This would have been the place to use 'love', no @Geoffry777 ?

she has asked that you stop, so cease and desist.

I too find it disturbing, even if meant well. I actually find it inappropriately used, since the content of this forum in general & thread in particular obviously contains the end results of lots of physical, sexual etc abuse. I'm sorry for the abuse you suffered. But being on that end you can see how it could be misinterpreted, right? I feel 'creeped out', tbh, & avoided the thread when I saw it. JMHO also, something seems 'off'. Or it's just me?

forgiveness does not set me free. I am still afraid of that person, even though I recognise they have changed. Freedom may come when I manage to de-fuse the power the trauma has over me

Myself too @Sandstone. Forgiveness doesn't seem to matter much. Perhaps it will help the other person? Just as when we are forgiven it helps us?

Self forgiveness, for me, is closely linked with self compassion and is incredibly difficult for me because there are many parts of what happened to me that I've been told I was responsible for or that I think I'm responsible for because of the choices I made.

Me too @Suzetig . I don't really know where it comes in to play for me, or rather how to untangle or fix it, it's all so jumbled up. :( ETA, Iadon't think self-forgiveness will be in the cards for me. Some others might forgive me, God might forgive me, but not sure how I can do it.

It sure feels as if it's been a long life.

Thank you everyone for being so candid with these things that are so private/ personal. :notworthy:

 

[Tinyflame]

I also think it's easier to forgive others when you love them, or it's not intentional (their actions), or you know they're f*cked up/ ill, etc. (Just for me).

 

[Tinyflame]

Also though, it sure destroyed my ability to trust. I have a book on how to work on that, had it for years. :rolleyes: Time to try to read it I guess... (Thanks. :) )

I think too forgiving can be easier if either your voice can be heard, or even if not, someone knows what happened/ is compassionate. Maybe forgiveness, then, includes getting some of the pain out?

 

[shimmerz]

Forgiveness, in my experience, has not been very helpful. I am dealing with a narcissist and potential sociopath. I went through decades forgiving them. And opening myself again. Because forgiveness, at that time, to me, was an indoctrinated program that meant 'keep expecting that God will love you if you are good and kind and keep forgiveness in your heart'. It didn't work out well for me.

Instead, I work on removing attachments to the person, experiences, events that happened. I still struggle with this but am getting better at it.

I think it is important here to determine what forgiveness means? Does it mean having a conversation with a person who you know bullshits you constantly so that you can remain their 'victim' and then having them over for brunch every Sunday? Tea once a year? It depends on the person.

There are a bunch of people out there who knowingly and with great pleasure ENJOY crushing others spirits. Forgiveness has no place there, imho.

Those of us with family (for instance) who are toxic struggle with this 'forgiveness' thing and I believe feel shame for not being able to forgive. Meanwhile, there is another school of thought that encourages no contact, which I personally am believing in more and more. It is a conflict, which of course, is what trauma is based on.

Can forgiveness mean detaching from and that is good enough? I played saint long enough.... I'm not doing it any more.

 

[Tinyflame]

Can forgiveness mean detaching from and that is good enough?

Idk know @shimmerz , but I had to do it for 29 years.

I asked my mom once, if it was ok to love family from a distance, she said absolutely.

Not even sure how much is me being loving, the fear is great too. and stuff.

I don't regret it, because there was no other way, & survive- God knows I tried. But also now I have no one, really, though I would have had only abuse.

 

[Dana1010]

I think forgiveness, if anything, is a result rather than a choice or action. You heal, the pain goes away (I'm speaking hypothetically here -- not there yet personally) and the clean emotional slate is the closest thing to forgiveness that exists in the real world.

I don't know how you can choose to forgive -- after all, I never made a choice to hurt, to resent, or to obsess, so I can't very well un-choose to do those things. When I hear people say they are choosing to forgive, I wonder what they're really saying. Are they psyching themselves out, hoping they can fake it 'till they make it? Or maybe they have healed through some other means, and now they're confusing the healed state with a choice to forgive, i.e, confusing the cause with the effect.

Research into trauma is erring more and more towards somatic theories and the need to heal from the bottom up, i.e, body first, and mind will follow. In light of this, the idea that you can cognitively choose to forgive, and that's going to somehow reset your clusterf*cked nervous system seems increasingly absurd.