Dog In Crate 12 Hours, Is This Cruel?

[Sideways]

My 2 cents: my puppy isn't certified as a service dog yet. But most places I go, he comes with. A couple of places like the supermarket I leave him tied up outside. Like kids, if taking your dog becomes essential, your eyes open up to the possibilities and the best places.

As for training - it sounds like you've nailed a lot of the basics. 30 commands is pretty darn good. But he gets hyper?

Thing about dogs, whatever breed, they're smart. But the key is knowing who's boss, and what the rules are. If you say sit, you need to mean it, you need to be able to correct your dog if they don't sit straight away. Then praise. Every time. If you're kicking back at home and it doesn't really matter if the dog behaves perfect? Don't enter into commands.

Dogs have a pack leader. That needs to be you. Dogs will constantly challenge the pack leader's authority, like your dog's hyper behaviour, or nearly pulling you over when you walk him.

If you make it clear to your dog that you are pack leader, and bad behaviour is unacceptable (flick the lead, stop and make them sit over and over if you have to, etc), your dog will appreciate the certainty and respond in kind.

So you take your dog to a dog park and he gets hyper around dogs and people. That's okay. In the dog park. But the second you're outside the dog park, it's not okay.

It takes time, but most of all, it takes consistency. Your dog already knows the rules, but he also knows that he can bend the rules and you don't assert your pack leader authority all the time. Change that, and your dog will respond.

Remember that your dog already knows the rules. The training is more about you, and your ability to be pack leader consistently. It's tiring, and neither of you want to be "on duty" all the time. A particular collar or jacket that you slip on when you're both on duty helps. The dog learns (real quick if you're consistent), "when she puts this jacket on, I'm working, and she won't let me bend any rules". When you're done, you take it off.

Don't give your dog a command unless you're in the mindset (and energetic enough) to correct it if it doesn't obey, first time, every time.

You are currently like the stand-in teacher while the real teacher is away off sick. The kids know the rules, but they're going to try and get away with whatever they can.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@She Cat, I know you are in a different business but how do you keep track of them? Like are they placed somewhere safe and labeled or how do you do that?

I know you are a safe person but my head is spinning about what if that person isn't safe. My front door has 2 locks you can't open with a key (so 3 total) but my back door (which they just rekeyed) doesn't.

I guess i could ask them to rekey it again so its not the same or i have a lock i bought i can temp replace it with i guess.

I don't know if my dog would jump at someone he knows coming in. He did go full on Cujo on a neighbor the he knew and loved breaking in his own apartment but he was going through a window. It was crazy to see Chopper bearing his teeth and not letting him move toward me.

I had him on a leash or i think he would have bite the neighbor's ass.

But he is used to my dad and step mom, and myself, coming in and out so if he gets used to a dog walker then would he allow them to come in at night?

And he is nothing against a gun.

Ugh, just my head and fears....sorry.

If you say sit, you need to mean it,

Oh, I am stern.

If I want him somewhere, i point and say "now" and he moves to where I am pointing. Normally i don't have to say "now" unless he doesn't want to go. He is like a kid in that respect. But he knows when i say or signal something he better do it. Not that i punish him. He is just very loyal.

Dogs have a pack leader.

I established pack leader when i first go him. I train much like Cesar Millan does. Dogs are a lot like wolves in this respect. He tried to dominate another dog and i put him on his back until he submitted. He has never tried to dominate again and always looks to me for direction.

But, he knows he can challenge my dad & step mom, whom knows nothing about dog training. I trained for several years along side someone i would compare to Cesar Millan. That's why I train that way.

I'm not huge on treats. I will give him treats at times but i am more on praise and training him to do it because i want him to, not to look for a treat.

Just my thing.

A couple of places like the supermarket I leave him tied up outside.

My ex roommates used to do that. They took him everywhere (on foot). I haven't yet. A gas station is ok but i don't like to have him out of eye shot. Maybe I can get there but just feel uncomfortable. I don't him to be stolen or be hurt and i can't see him to stop it, you know?

A particular collar or jacket that you slip on when you're both on duty helps. The dog learns (real quick if you're consistent), "when she puts this jacket on, I'm working, and she won't let me bend any rules". When you're done, you take it off.

Maybe I can start with something like a Thunder shirt or some jacket that's not a service dog jacket would help to start that?

You are currently like the stand-in teacher while the real teacher is away off sick. The kids know the rules, but they're going to try and get away with whatever they can.

Oh i know that. He likes to challenge what i say to the point of almost yelling. I don't yell at him. It's more like super stern. Like a parent would do with a child..."go now" kind of thing or "i said now". He knows that when I say "now" he better do it.

He does challenge and the more he does the more i know his training is slipping again.

But, yes, he is a well trained dog for sure. I wouldn't worry about him being a service dog if he didn't get overly excited in public but that's just more getting him out and around people more and showing him what is ok and what isn't i think.

He is a SUPER smart dog. That's for sure.

 

[desiderata310]

It's incredibly difficult to have your own pet registered as an official service dog.

huh?

I believe something got lost in translation. ADA does not require that I register my SD . There are so many of us out there who owner train their dogs.
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals
Service Dogs and the Rights of the Disabled | Solo, Small Firm and General Practice Division

Forgive me while I go on my little explanation for a moment. I do NOT mean to sound preachy. Just conveying what I have learned as I have stumbled down this road.

Please be careful about using Therapy dog, Emotional Support Animal and Service dog interchangeably. The only owner who's dog has public access is a service dog. A Service Dog mitigates a disability.

Therapy dogs have access to hospitals when they are pre-arranged to visit patients. They are trained to interact with everyone (SD's are not)
ESA's are granted in housing that is otherwise pet restricted by virtue of the Fair Housing Act and it allows them access on airplanes. (hence why there are even VESTS out there that say ESA)
I have seen a few people bring out their ESA's to Starbucks and it actually pisses me off. Those dogs aren't trained and it's obvious since they are pulling and barking and generally making a ruckus.

I've done a lot of work with my dog to make sure that he can not only perform tasks for me but is well behaved, well groomed and inconspicuous as a large breed dog can be.

There are STANDARDS that every service dog should be able to meet.
Passing the CGC. That should be just about every dog really.
The next is a public access test. That test is here:
Link Removed

Really, until the dog can pass that test, you don't have a dog that can help you at ALL

In addition, the dog should also perform at least ONE task (work) that the handler can not otherwise do without them. (so getting me a drink from the kitchen really isn't necessary because I can do that. Neither is reminding me to take meds since I don't really take an on a regular basis but these might be useful to someone else.)

In Charlie's case, he does:
1. grounding work (providing me with what people like to call deep pressure therapy. It's hard to stay dissociated with a 90 lb dog on your lap or leaning against you)
2. Probably the thing he does the best and most is blocking (i.e. he will stand between me and other people.) It keeps me from having a panic attack standing in line at the grocery store. Before I would wind up running out and abandoning my shopping because I couldn't deal with people being close to me. He pretty much does this automatically when I start getting anxious. He will stand behind me and lean in on my legs.
3. He also performs something called "cover me" which is when he will be a presence and behave as though he is watching my back while I can't watch it. It helps. It REALLY helps.

We are working on 'who's there', and searching the house (though he does this quite well already) since I have serious problems entering my home and needing to check every nook and cranny.

Finally, we are working on him recognizing and breaking flashbacks/really bad dissociative spells.
We aren't done training but we are far enough along that I can call him a SD.

Anyway, I know I took the thread WAAAY off topic but this has been... kind of my whole world for the last couple of years.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Anyway, I know I took the thread WAAAY off topic but this has been... kind of my whole world for the last couple of years.

No you didn't. It's what we've been talking about here the last day or two. Totally fine as i want to train Chopper to be my service dog (ESA).

Any information on that topic is much appreciated. I suppose I could open a new thread about it. I just decided since the thread took this turn to just keep it here.

I'm not a big 'must stay on topic' person and like the natural flow of conversation. It's generally how I accidently "hijack threads". I love conversation! ;)

Thanks for the info! I bookmarked the sites to go back to.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

We are working on 'who's there', and searching the house (though he does this quite well already) since I have serious problems entering my home and needing to check every nook and cranny

Chopper knows "who's there" and "who is it". You can whisper it and he knows it. But he doesn't search, he barks. And sounds very agressive. And he also will go searching for someone when I say "help" (which I didn't even teach him. And he was not trained when I rescued him so not sure how he picked that up but I love it).

ETA: "Find it" is when he goes searching but this is easliy changed. I did it starting with a toy. Put it behind you back and say "who's there" and keep hiding it in harder places. Maybe a nice smelling treat. That's how i started "find it"

How did you start "who's there" @desiderata310?

 

[Deleted member 541]

@lostforgottensoul This is ONE set of my keys, I have 2, but that one is for summer people only. Some days I stand outside of someone's house, and thinking, "Which f*ckING key is it?"

I believe with a doggie service, the key would be kept labeled and in a locked wall box when not in use. The person walking your dog would most likely have to sign out the key and then back in when they return with it.

I know how anxiety provoking this will be, but if you look at it another way..... it will help you in different ways also. You will learn how to get to know someone, (or a few people) that you will have to put some trust in. Trust for keeping your dog safe, and trust that they will respect you, your home and your dog. It's broadening your sheltered world, and forcing you out of it. You will have to walk with the walker the first few times I would think, to let the pup get used to this person. In the end, you've accomplished some things that you really didn't want to. That's a huge accomplishment in itself. The whole thing would be a huge accomplishment, for you and your pup!

 

[Sideways]

Maybe I can start with something like a Thunder shirt or some jacket that's not a service dog jacket would help to start that?

Yeah, pretty much anything. I have a lightweight hi-vis jacket I use because most jackets are too warm for the climate. Nothing like a service dog jacket - I'm not trying to pass him off as one, but it does mean he knows he's working, and he has to do it first time every time.

It's totally okay that people you live with are pretty useless. Mostly people don't know squat about dog psychology. The issue is more whether he does what you say when other people are around, and that can include roommates as well as the general public. So you don't need him to be on duty just because they're around, but being clear with him that if you say X, you mean it, regardless of whether they're around.

My little fella loves other people and other dogs. And I make sure he gets time off to socialise regularly. But if if I give him a command, he knows. Other people tell him to sit and he couldn't care less! That's cool with me - I'm the only one he needs to obey. But if I don't want to stop and let him say hello to the millionth other dog-walker out on the street - I say leave it, and he only gets one chance to get it right, pronto.

Anti-social behaviour and obedience are 2 different things. Once you know your dog is safe around others, it's okay if he's not working all the time.

As for treats - great for training. But they get to a point where they have to do it without treats, because you won't always have them on you, and they know if you've got em, because they smell that stuff a mile away! Some people are really rigid about whether or not treats are good, but I think it's what works best for you and your dog.

You know, you're actually doing okay. Trauma makes us go totally batty when we have to care for another living thing. Ptsders often end up veing 10 times better carers than the agerage Joe, but because we're so paranoid about inflicting abuse and making sure others (including animals) are cared for and loved and happy and well-adjusted, we end up beating ourselves up over small issues when in fact we're over-compensating with the Care. Your dog is healthy and loves you to bits, yeah? Pretty good evidence that even though you doubt yourself, you're actually doing a great job.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

The whole thing would be a huge accomplishment, for you and your pup!

Absoultly it would be, given i trust no one but my therapist.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Ptsders often end up veing 10 times better carers than the agerage Joe, but because we're so paranoid about inflicting abuse and making sure others (including animals) are cared for and loved and happy and well-adjusted, we end up beating ourselves up over small issues when in fact we're over-compensating with the Care. Your dog is healthy and loves you to bits, yeah? Pretty good evidence that even though you doubt yourself, you're actually doing a great job.

You got that right! Also, given my trauma and what I was forced to do doesn't help either.

Oh, and thank you! :hug:

@desiderata310, given all the training was done and all tests passed, do you have to have a dog fill out anything as to why you need an ESA to have a dog certified as one, legally?

 

[desiderata310]

given all the training was done and all tests passed, do you have to have a dog fill out anything as to why you need an ESA to have a dog certified as one, legally?

;):rolleyes:

I had to read that a couple of times to catch the joke. Wow, I'm slow.

How did you start "who's there"

I used his propensity to alert to noises. It's really a reality check for me. If I hear something and there's nothing to be worried about (there's No one there) he will stand up, go to the door, and then become disinterested. It's enough to reassure me that there really IS no one there. If I hear something and I ask, he will be very insistent about trying to go out. Usually, it's my son coming to the door. There were a couple of times that it was the UPS guy.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I had to read that a couple of times to catch the joke. Wow, I'm slow

No, that was a serious question, though meant to say "do you have to have the doctor fill anything out as to why you have to have an ESA legally" lol, im at work.

 

[desiderata310]

do you have to have the doctor fill anything out as to why you have to have an ESA legally" lol, im at work.

OH!
TOTALLY different question and totally not as funny as the idea of the dog writing something.
the answer is yes.
That would be true of both an ESA (which does not have public access) AND service dogs .

In the case of Charlie, my therapist wrote a letter that I now carry with me if I am going to be going out of town. I keep it with me (along with his shot records)in case I have issues with the airport, the hotel, etc. It says that Charlie is a service dog and that he mitigates my disability. It's on my therapist's letter head so that if they have any questions, they can call him.

When I travel by plane I have to contact them in advance (check the individual airline they all have different rules). I've only had to present the letter once: that was when my mom passed and I was arguing back and forth about something stupid and I slammed the paperwork down in their face and said "he's a service dog, I have a ticket, YOU MUST to accommodate me." it was my trump card. I was pissed and upset and my mom had LITERALLY just died (I had just gotten the call) I didn't have time to make arrangements prior to the flight that time with enough lead time to make the airlines happy.

That's probably the most forceful I've ever been. They wound up having to move folks around to accommodate us but I made my flight and still had time to board early (We need the time to get on and settled before everyone else gets on)

My therapist was also very involved and wrote a letter for me to give to my disabilities department on campus where I work and to go in my file in HR. It was all "approved" as a reasonable accommodation.

In my case, going down this road was my therapist's idea. He suggested it. It took months for me to go along with the idea and almost a year before I found a dog to train.