Compulsive Lying

[Ike]

Not sure if this adds anything, but I've found there is a correlation between the empathy we feel for other people and the empathy we feel for ourselves. I.e. if we feel no empathy for our own emotions/situation/etc, we're bound to feel none for other people's...it's just food for thought.

Re. the lying. Dishonesty is always a control mechanism. There is some comfort in being able to twist or withhold the truth as we are just terrified what we would be without that tool to control our environment and the social interactions we have. Lying, without fail, is a fear response.

 

[Vulohi]

Not sure if this adds anything, but I've found there is a correlation between the empathy we feel for other people and the...

[OP]
I don't doubt that lying is a way to control a situation out of fear.. But what about the scenarios where there's nothing going on? When I lie, it's not always in response to what someone said. The room could be quiet and I decided to say something so to get something going on. It gets boring. Sometimes regular conversations can get dull.. So I'll say something that'll throw them off. Sometimes I'll say, "I'm joking," just to see how they respond. Would that still be considered a fear response?

In the beginning when I was still being abused, I can see it as that. So could you say that lying due to fear has now become a habit and the reason I lie now is just out of habit and I find it as an appropriate way to spend boring times?

 

[Ewe]

OP, are you otherwise socially awkward? Like, do you consider yourself to be poor company, or not especially liked?

 

[Omut]

I don't think you need to apologise for being honest here and I really hope you don't feel you need to sanitise what you feel or how you react. (As long as it isn't done to get a reaction that is and is honest. ). Especially since you are discussing difficulties with truth we here should support you in telling it. The only way we get better and do more with our lives and get more out of them is if we are honest with ourselves and trusted others who can help us. I'm not saying I find some of the stuff easy but there is no judgement from me. There are lots of reasons why we end up doing the things we do and what is important is looking at a way through.

What I personally don't think is helpful is for people to try to force your life and self experience into their own lens of life. In other words if they can't imagine the way someone else sees and reacts to things they try to change the reality into something that fits their own experience of perception/function and waste time on that rather than looking at the reality. I'm probably expressing that poorly. I used to do that and I think its unhelpful for all concerns. I thought it was empathy but I'm not so sure. I think a lot of the time it was projection and caretaking. That doesn't help anyone concerned. Reality is reality and rather needs to be seen and dealt with.

It seems to me that it would be more helpful looking at your feelings about the past and what has happened. And looking at what has helped you so far and how you can build on that. I could be wrong but I cant see how again and again trying to change how you are describing yourself can be helpful. You aren't doing that but I think some who have answered you here have.

As I said at the start I truly believe in the potential capacity for healing and change for human beings.

I would guess that looking at the way you view various things may help. Maybe you could discuss them here (new threads) and with your t. For example what is strength and what is weakness. What protects us the most and how. What are the roles of all of our emotions; fear, sadness, love, compassion, anger etc. Empathy its role in human relationships and self relationships and your feelings about it. Whether you have connected it with weakness etc and why. You need to try to see another way of looking at things if you truly want the things you have posted about to change. For your friend but also for you.

You are obviously highly skilled at cognitive empathy (theory of mind), you are capable of emotional empathy and you have the capacity for remorse as well. Not everyone in life has to be a gushing well of emotional empathy to have good relationships and be effective at work and function well in life. Or have a moral code. It sounds like there is a part of you that wants a better moral code and a better and more effective way of having relationships with others.

The other aspect of this may be working through your trauma and your relationships with your abusers. What you learnt there.

A name for what is happening may not be important at all. If you do wan to see if there is a particular name for or something going on for you then you do need to see a psychiatrist and ask them to do a full evaluation. If you feel you are making progress and this isn't getting in the way of healing then it may not be an important thing to do at all.

If you look at the situation then what is the most important thing now? Do you think you are dissatisfied with some of these things enough to attempt further change?
_
Oro

 

[Cizumu]

OP, are you otherwise socially awkward? Like, do you consider yourself to be poor company, or not especially liked?[/QUOT...

Yes when I am in a depressive mood and back when I was actually depressed. Not so much now or when I'm in that different mindset, I don't think anything of it.

I am remembering though that people noted I can seem well in social situations, especially if I am under pressure. Such as when I had to make a presentation. I nearly had a panic attack, yet I somehow managed to remember my lines, make people laugh, etc. I can speech on the fly, come up with elaborate believable stories(when I'm just talking, not in an attempt to lie or manipulate.)

 

[Cizumu]

I don't think you need to apologise for being honest here and I really hope you don't feel you need to sanitise what you...

Thank you for all of your patience, Oro. It took me a few years to build up the courage to even attempt talking about this somewhere.. I can look at it and question why I'd be so sick minded and why I feel that way sometimes, but it feels like i can't help it. It just happens. The most important thing would probably be to keep my friend safe from me and others both physically and mentally. It may be a while until I am able to understand the importance of caring for strangers, but for now she is something and it is slowly expanding to her family members.

 

[Tafah]

she is something and it is slowly expanding to her family members.

Well that's a good thing. Can you build on that? Or maybe disect what empathy is and investigate when you feel it for her and her family? Like what that feels like?

I still think the key most of this (at least the manipulation and lying out of pure boredom) is empathy. I just think it way harder to purposely manipulate if you can feel how they do and care about thatm. You know?

And, I also think that you won't so much manipulate your friend because you can for her. I just see it much harder when you care. But it's wonderful that you are trying to change it.

 

[Cizumu]

Well that's a good thing. Can you build on that? Or maybe disect what empathy is and investigate when you feel it for...

Yes. I feel like there are degrees on what I do when I manipulate people.. I don't always let them know or make it obvious that I am lying or messing with them because I know what that can do to them, but for those that are really getting on my nerves or that I feel deserve it, I will mess with them. But with my friend.. I almost never feel a need. Sometimes I'll want to just out of curiosity because she fascinates me, but with her I'm able to be a lot more honest. Instead of feigning something, I can instead ask her, "What if I did this... what would you do?" And I know people will say one thing and tend to react differently, but she is pretty realistic.And again, I care enough that i wouldn't want to harm her.

 

[Fekog]

I don't doubt that lying is a way to control a situation out of fear.. But what about the scenarios where there's nothing going on? When I lie, it's not always in response to what someone said. The room could be quiet and I decided to say something so to get something going on

(I think my name changed here, I was Ike before?)

I would argue it is, yes. Whether we like someone, care for someone, are interested in them or not, as human beings we want to be accepted, heard, and if not liked, then at least seen and remembered. This is easy with people we enjoy spending time with, our resources for ensuring our needs are met are more finely tuned. However, when we find ourselves interacting with people we do not connect with - generally or in the moment - the situation is automatically much harder to control. Even though it may translate as boredom or dullness to you, I would argue it is actually quite an anxiety provoking scenario. We tell lies to assert our presence, to regain control over a situation that we find hard to navigate otherwise and that trigger deep-seated fears we may not be able to name as such in the moment: loneliness, abandonment, rejection, the irrelevance of our presence. I'd suggest perhaps reinvestigating and reframing what you describe as "boredom" in these situations. Boredom is a neutral and/or indifferent emotion. As much as it's easy to describe lying as a sign of lack of empathy and just trying to pass time, the fact that you continue to try to engage in these social situations and assert control over them is a hint that there is much more underneath than you may think.

 

[Etopo]

(I think my name changed here, I was Ike before?)

I would argue it is, yes. Whether we like someone, care for someone,...

Check out Joey's post on how to keep the same name.

 

[Cizumu]

(I think my name changed here, I was Ike before?)

I would argue it is, yes. Whether we like someone, care for someone,...

Okay. Would it still count as a fear driven habit even if I'm not doing this 24/7? I don't do this everywhere. It's not like I go to the supermarket and start messing with everyone haha. I see it as something to do just like how you may look through your phone to read a story or post, watch a video, etc. When I am in the setting that I tend to lie in, it's not guaranteed. Sometimes I'm quiet there and doing my own thing, and sometimes I feel like doing something.

But if you really believe it to be fear... then maybe I'll go back and see if I'm feeling scared or anxious in the situation... I guess. Before saying something, asking why I want to.

 

[Fekog]

It's actually quite funny and brilliant that you compare the habit to how some people pick up their phones, check their feeds, watch a video. As out-there as this may sound, but our phone habit is evasive and anxiety driven, as well. It's a fear response, clearly masked, however because the soothing effect is so instant: We never actually get to feel the fear we are trying to avoid because our phone is a great preventive measure.

There is an edginess, a rawness to sitting around, doing nothing, just being, and living with whatever reality, thought, pain we find ourselves with. Grabbing our phone is quite effective in numbing, altering, or sustaining our mood before we even feel anything remotely like the anxiety we know will come about if we just sit alone with our thoughts.

The fear-driven aspect I am talking about here is not so much that you may actually feel anxiety in those moments. You may feel totally content and fine. But there is something about the situation that may shake loose a habit to PREVENT feeling the anxiety of being around people you don't feel connected with, or feel other, barely perceptible things about: envy, jealousy, anger, disgust, what have you. Much like grabbing your phone, lying is a preventive measure for potentially uncomfortable feelings. It's a way to take charge of the situation; to alter, numb, or sustain your mood.

In any case it's a great idea to stop and reflect for a moment, if you can, when you feel the impulse to lie arise. To reflect on what that boredom actually feels like, if it changes and shifts into something else. I am sure there will be many clues in that pause.