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Relationship Boyfriend Can Never Take Responsibility For His Actions
- Post starter Jaix
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Justmehere
Sponsor
He is trying to change you through insults and etc. You are trying to change him. You are big discovering that's impossible.
The only person you have any control over is you. Set and keep boundaries around the behavior you find to be unacceptable to have in your life. He will either change, or he won't. Either way, you can still keep your boundaries because they are about you and what you will let into your life.
The fact that he is not even in therapy makes it pretty likely he is not ready to change. He even lost his relationship with his mother. He will likely have to face greater consequences and worse outcomes for his behavior before he will do the very scary and difficult work of trauma therapy.
The most helpful thing you can do for his recovery is not to tolerate his hurtful behavior but make it clear you won't allow it into your life. He can then choose to get help and find new ways to communicate or not.
But you can't change him and if you stay waiting for him to change you will both likely end up resenting each other.
The only person you have any control over is you. Set and keep boundaries around the behavior you find to be unacceptable to have in your life. He will either change, or he won't. Either way, you can still keep your boundaries because they are about you and what you will let into your life.
The fact that he is not even in therapy makes it pretty likely he is not ready to change. He even lost his relationship with his mother. He will likely have to face greater consequences and worse outcomes for his behavior before he will do the very scary and difficult work of trauma therapy.
The most helpful thing you can do for his recovery is not to tolerate his hurtful behavior but make it clear you won't allow it into your life. He can then choose to get help and find new ways to communicate or not.
But you can't change him and if you stay waiting for him to change you will both likely end up resenting each other.
lostforgottensoul
VIP Member
There is no right way to pick a screen name. Nor do you have to pick an avitar due to others. It is all in what you want. Your decision, not other's
:hug:
Though I fully understand this stance, remember though that one can fail and do the same "offence" many times before they learn how to not make the "offence".
I'm not meaning to say that one should allow put downs and personal attacking that way. I mean in a broader sense. So if the "offence" is yelling, for instance, and I appologize for yelling but do it again and again, it's going to take me a while to learn how not to yell. If that makes sense.
Not meaning as an excuse at all, just explaining about issues of my own that others must deal with and that I constantly appologize for but continue doing. Yelling/exploding is the main one for me.
I don't state personal put downs and degrade someone or name call when I explode usually but if one does maybe that is a "get them before they get me" mind frame or even wanting them to hurt as much as you do.
Again, not excusing and I may be wording this all wrong but I know that I am constantly appologizing to others but still will go and do it again and again. I am learning how not to but its taking a long while to learn how not to. So thats all I mean. Certianly she isn't a punching bag and neither are the two in my life. But, at the same time, I am working really hard on not exploding, for instance, and if the two in my life left and said they couldn't handle it anymore (which they have all justication to do) that would make me feel so horrible and would lilely set me back far. As opposed to them hanging on while I work on it.
@Jaix, What helps with me is if someone set a clear boundry that they will not converse with me when I am in a state of yelling, arguing (name calling for him), etc and that they will pick up this conversation when I am calmer and then DISENGAGE! Stop talking, leave, do NOT argue with him. Personally I am irrational in those times and it impossible for me to be rational in those times. If the person disenages and walks away I will still "self yell" or do a talking to myself but yelling instead. But eventually calm down. Ignore any self yelling. Don't engage in a fight or arguement, just simply stop talking and walk away. That way you are only controling you and what you will do or not do and what you will engage in and be a part of and what you won't. You aren't telling him to stop his behavior.
That technique (if you can call it that) works very well for me to calm me down.
But I agree, very clear boundries need to go in place and very strictly enforced.
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I've been in the same exact situation with my sufferer boyfriend. The lashing out, the yelling, irrational arguments, being blamed for everything, while not being allowed to make him responsible for his actions. Here are two things that have significantly altered the situation for the better. One pretty basic, the other a bit unconventional:
1. I established and stayed firm on the boundary that there is no verbal or emotional abuse allowed. None, zero, zip. I did this by forewarning him that I will leave the room, hang up the phone, or do whatever for that to stop. There are some people on here who can disengage like that and float out the room like a benevolent fairy. I can't, I get pissed, even though I know it is not him who's talking. So when the abuse flared up again, I told him, "I will not be verbally abused." Then hung up the phone. He got in touch a few hours later, apologized somewhat, then asked me what I was doing. I told him it was none of his business, I don't share intimate details of my life with people who abuse me. He balked at first, but my firmness hit home. In other words, yes, his behavior WAS actually as bad as he thought and I was SHOWING him the consequences. Ever since he has made a concerted effort to regulate himself before he loses control. He knows I wilI shut him out like that again otherwise. Not to punish him, but to protect myself. It worked.
2. Even though he is considerably less abusive and irrational, he does still have a habit of blaming me for things or flipping out about things I say (or didn't say.) So a few weeks ago, I utterly, completely, and thoroughly lost my marbles on him. And I mean, I threw a fit of my sufferer's own proportions. He had blamed me for something, or turned something around on me, something he's done many times before, but I just hit a wall. I swear I have never screamed, cried, or cursed like that in my life. Believe me, I'm hard to rattle, but I had something of a panic attack myself. His reaction was to fall into complete calm. I think it was the first time he saw how seriously this has been affecting me. Though still panicking himself, he actually started breathing with me, calming me down. It was a bit of a shitshow, but since then, we he can tell he has an impulse to revert to abuse when triggered, he backs off completely. I think it was something of a wake up call for him. After all, he really doesn't want to see me in that much pain. What I learned from this is that keeping it all in, trying to pussy foot around his unacceptable behavior was not doing either of us any good. I'm not planning on flipping out like that again, but I now know to be more vocal, more firm, and more consistent in things I find unacceptable. If he leaves because of that, so be it at this point.
The fact that your sufferer is resistant to treatment is a problem, as people above have said. But I think there is a good chance, once you start setting and really following through on boundaries, he will understand the gravity of the situation and that the codependency has come to an end.
If you want to mull over what boundaries to set and how, drop a line. Happy to think on it with you!
1. I established and stayed firm on the boundary that there is no verbal or emotional abuse allowed. None, zero, zip. I did this by forewarning him that I will leave the room, hang up the phone, or do whatever for that to stop. There are some people on here who can disengage like that and float out the room like a benevolent fairy. I can't, I get pissed, even though I know it is not him who's talking. So when the abuse flared up again, I told him, "I will not be verbally abused." Then hung up the phone. He got in touch a few hours later, apologized somewhat, then asked me what I was doing. I told him it was none of his business, I don't share intimate details of my life with people who abuse me. He balked at first, but my firmness hit home. In other words, yes, his behavior WAS actually as bad as he thought and I was SHOWING him the consequences. Ever since he has made a concerted effort to regulate himself before he loses control. He knows I wilI shut him out like that again otherwise. Not to punish him, but to protect myself. It worked.
2. Even though he is considerably less abusive and irrational, he does still have a habit of blaming me for things or flipping out about things I say (or didn't say.) So a few weeks ago, I utterly, completely, and thoroughly lost my marbles on him. And I mean, I threw a fit of my sufferer's own proportions. He had blamed me for something, or turned something around on me, something he's done many times before, but I just hit a wall. I swear I have never screamed, cried, or cursed like that in my life. Believe me, I'm hard to rattle, but I had something of a panic attack myself. His reaction was to fall into complete calm. I think it was the first time he saw how seriously this has been affecting me. Though still panicking himself, he actually started breathing with me, calming me down. It was a bit of a shitshow, but since then, we he can tell he has an impulse to revert to abuse when triggered, he backs off completely. I think it was something of a wake up call for him. After all, he really doesn't want to see me in that much pain. What I learned from this is that keeping it all in, trying to pussy foot around his unacceptable behavior was not doing either of us any good. I'm not planning on flipping out like that again, but I now know to be more vocal, more firm, and more consistent in things I find unacceptable. If he leaves because of that, so be it at this point.
The fact that your sufferer is resistant to treatment is a problem, as people above have said. But I think there is a good chance, once you start setting and really following through on boundaries, he will understand the gravity of the situation and that the codependency has come to an end.
If you want to mull over what boundaries to set and how, drop a line. Happy to think on it with you!
Tiredtexan I feel like you literally just explained my life.
MummaKitten
New Here
I'm stating this from my own personal experience: He needs someone.
PTSD on it's own is a terrible disorder and it is irrational. People think the person is going crazy, trying to change the other person, and while that is what it seems like, that person is dying on the inside. They feel like a shell. They don't know who they are anymore. They don't understand why they feel the way they do. It is very, very, very hard to deal with as a PTSD sufferer.
True, he should have therapy. The thing is: Do they want therapy? Do they want to try to get better and do what the counselor is suggesting. If we don't want to do that, then it's hard to figure out what to do. In my case, I was aware of my diagnoses but I have disassociative flashbacks that make me say awful things to my husband because I feel like my present world is a mask of the past world. My past self seeps through and that's a problem with PTSD. It sneaks up on us. I never remember my flashbacks. My relationship is strained because of it, but I have moments of clarity where I can be myself, now. I used to not be able to and was miserable all of the time. I honestly don't remember most of the first year of my son's life because of my PTSD.
My husband has stood by me and has encouraged me to get help. The only problem about me getting my current counselor was that it took my past self trying to kill itself when my present self was just trying to get 1 pill to calm myself down to be referred to them. If I didn't have my husband, I'd be dead and would have been dead earlier on because I wasn't able to deal with my family saying I was playing a victim and my ex was stalking me on my college campus.
You guys can say he's trying to be controlling, but sometimes it takes some really f*cked up shit for someone to decide they need counseling. I only started seeking counseling after I started having disassociation involved with my flashbacks. I understand what this guy is going through. It's rough and it isn't pretty. Complex PTSD is hard to deal with. Everything triggers you to go off. I know that I just react. I don't even have the opportunity to think before I react, I just react and break down easily on the regular. I have panic attacks sitting in a car. I have panic attacks in a school setting. I have panic attacks at grocery stores and lakes and playing the piano and home. Why? That's where my trauma is related to. I'm safe now. I know that. But, now that I am away from my trauma, my trauma has been screwing with me bit by bit and has been making me feel insane.
Do not judge him. You don't know what demons he is fighting.
PTSD on it's own is a terrible disorder and it is irrational. People think the person is going crazy, trying to change the other person, and while that is what it seems like, that person is dying on the inside. They feel like a shell. They don't know who they are anymore. They don't understand why they feel the way they do. It is very, very, very hard to deal with as a PTSD sufferer.
True, he should have therapy. The thing is: Do they want therapy? Do they want to try to get better and do what the counselor is suggesting. If we don't want to do that, then it's hard to figure out what to do. In my case, I was aware of my diagnoses but I have disassociative flashbacks that make me say awful things to my husband because I feel like my present world is a mask of the past world. My past self seeps through and that's a problem with PTSD. It sneaks up on us. I never remember my flashbacks. My relationship is strained because of it, but I have moments of clarity where I can be myself, now. I used to not be able to and was miserable all of the time. I honestly don't remember most of the first year of my son's life because of my PTSD.
My husband has stood by me and has encouraged me to get help. The only problem about me getting my current counselor was that it took my past self trying to kill itself when my present self was just trying to get 1 pill to calm myself down to be referred to them. If I didn't have my husband, I'd be dead and would have been dead earlier on because I wasn't able to deal with my family saying I was playing a victim and my ex was stalking me on my college campus.
You guys can say he's trying to be controlling, but sometimes it takes some really f*cked up shit for someone to decide they need counseling. I only started seeking counseling after I started having disassociation involved with my flashbacks. I understand what this guy is going through. It's rough and it isn't pretty. Complex PTSD is hard to deal with. Everything triggers you to go off. I know that I just react. I don't even have the opportunity to think before I react, I just react and break down easily on the regular. I have panic attacks sitting in a car. I have panic attacks in a school setting. I have panic attacks at grocery stores and lakes and playing the piano and home. Why? That's where my trauma is related to. I'm safe now. I know that. But, now that I am away from my trauma, my trauma has been screwing with me bit by bit and has been making me feel insane.
Do not judge him. You don't know what demons he is fighting.
joeylittle
Sponsor
Will he go for couples counseling?
Communication can be worked on, no matter what. And if he's not at least willing to engage in changing his harmful communication - then you need to decide whether you can keep living with it.
I'm sorry. It sounds rough.
But without some commitment to some plan for improvement, I don't think you can hope to see anything change. Yeah, PTSD is hard. We all know it. But it's not a mystery, as far as how to treat it goes. If he's afraid of that process, ok. Maybe he wants to try something different. Maybe not. But the marriage is ongoing - and it seems like you've put it on hold for long enough.
HAHA! Benevolent fairy. I struggle with being a benevolent fairy too lol. I make the mistake nearly every time of trying to rationalize with my SO when he is in this mindset, thinking that surely there is something that I can do or say that will help "snap him out of it". But there's not. One time I flipped out bad like @Hojay mentioned....actually twice. The first time, I got physical and he got physical back. That was a mistake on my part to initiate something like that when, in retrospect, I knew that would further escalate things for him. We've been dealing with it since. But at the time, it was hard to remember the right way to do things. Sometimes it's hard not to get caught up in the emotional hurricane. The second time I got physical with the wall lol. That kind of surprised him, as in @Hojay's situation, but in reality all it left was more of a mess for me to clean up after everything was over. Didn't really fix anything at all.
You have to show them this with your boundaries and your consistency with them. In the moment, you will not be able to rationalize with them. You will not be able to have a productive conversation about what is going on. I cannot stress that enough.
Thank you for this nuanced and vulnerable account of what you're going through. I'm under no illusion that PTSD is a cakewalk. As a non-sufferer, I can't even imagine. I'm on the fence, however, with this quote here. I understand that you need someone when suffering from PTSD. However, the risk his high of turning co-dependent as a supporter, completely losing yourself in unacceptable behavior, while being told that you need to understand more, learn more, take yourself back just a little more. As horrible as a sufferer's situation is, it is their trauma to solve.
If what is needed as a basis is someone who is unconditionally around and takes themselves back emotionally, physically, and psychologically that's the definition of a therapist, not a romantic partner. That may sound dismissive to you, but it's just an example of good boundaries between two individuals - not just in relationships - and it's a line of reasoning that is crucial for a supporter's emotional health.
Totally second that, tiredtexan. I learned that the hard way. Now I don't reason, I walk away. And if he crosses the line in his tirade, he will learn about that soon enough. But yeah, I'm far from a Dalai Lama in those situations. It would be going against all I believe in to go all sweet and kind while he is tearing a hole in my soul. I also don't think that would do him much good.
joeylittle
Sponsor
Incredibly well said.
MummaKitten
New Here
I in no way said you had to enable him. My husband has been supportive of me whenever I want to do new things. He's been supportive of me finding who I am. He's had to give me tough love on some things which snap me out of whatever mood I may be in that is undesirable, but in the end, he's going to stick by me. If there are things he really wants to do, encourage him to do them- as long as it won't be harmful to his health.
I've had a bit of a religion crisis- my husband supported me in my religion changes and has reaped benefits. I'm much more confident in myself than I was about a week ago.
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