Dog training question

[lostforgottensoul]

So a question for any dog trainers out there and/or those that trained there own service dogs:

I am attempting to train my dog to be my service dog and he learns tasks very quickly but I have found that my dog is TERRIFIED of the word "brace" or any word that sounds like it. So the fear could just be of a word that sounds like brace. I don't know but he shows the same amount of fear with words that rhyme with brace.

I tried br, gr, grace, face. I know about pavlov conditioning or classic conditioning; every time he hears the word he gets a treat but he won't take a treat or meat or chesse or even peanut butter. He took the peanut butter up until i used grace and brace and he freaked.

He shuts down completely. He won't come near me unless I use the e collar and even then he slinks over and sits with his back to me and refuses to look at me or take treats/meat/peanut butter. He turns his head fully away from me and refuses to look at me.

He is a rescue but I am not aware of any abuse.

I am not sure what else I could use other then brace. I can find another cue i guess. I can do things without cues but he needs to know to brace himself so I don't hurt him. And when going up and down stairs he needs to know to stop to let me push down on him for counter balance. Does anyone have any ideas on how to slowly get him over this fear?

I cannot find anything about it online other then another forum where the dog was afraid of the word gas and they advised pavlov conditioning, which isn't working.

Ideas? I will try anything at this point!

 

[scout86]

Interesting. You have to wonder where that came from, huh? But, you can use any word you want. He just has to learn to associate a cue with a response. It doesn't matter if you say "brace" or "Philadelphia" he just needs to associate a cue with a response.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It doesn't matter if you say "brace" or "Philadelphia" he just needs to associate a cue with a response.

I know but I am not sure what other cue I can remember. Like can I remember "steady" instead? I want him to also learn to stop and let me pull against him and he not move. He is a pitbull and is made to pull so what I am afraid of is having the same cue mean different things and getting them confused.

Like I wanted him to know to come to me sideways to then let me push down on him. Like if I had fallen or was just on the ground, I want him to learn to position himself.

But then pulling against him and he not move isn't positioning himself.

Maybe I can use "ancher" as the pull against him cue and then "steady" for the push down on him and counter balance?

Issue is me getting confused of what cue means what really. So "brace" is an easy one to remember and what most mobilty service dog handlers use.

Ugh, I don't know but I took him outside and said it letting the enviroment be the "good thing" and he acted like I was beating him. Tail tucked fully and slinking around. Its so sad but also very confusing of why that word means so much terror for him. And he has a knee jerk reaction to it.

You have to wonder where that came from, huh?

Yep!

ETA: I just f*cked up training for the day though. He wants nothing to do with me. Terrified of me so now I have conditioning to do with me.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It is worse then I thought. I guess because I paired the word to the clicker at first, he is now terrified of the sound of the clicker. Most of my training is based on clicker training. I can't re "prime" it as he runs every time he hears it now and won't take treats/meat/cheese/peanut butter...nothing.

What have I done?

I just want to cry!!

 

[scout86]

My youngest dog, the one who came off the reservation, is terrified of clickers. We just skipped the clicker & went with "good dog". But, @desiderata310 sent me several links to videos about working with this problem. Apparently lots of dogs are scared of clickers and can get past it.

Chip really freaked out. We didn't need it so we skipped it. I do, randomly, click the clicker sometimes, out of nowhere, associated with nothing, and he freaks less now, but it's never going to be useful for training him. Because your guy started out ok with the clicker, I'll bet you can get him past this with time.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Apparently lots of dogs are scared of clickers and can get past it.

He wasn't until now. He is also scared of "yes", and "good", my marker words.

I tried to muffle whil giving him a bone. Nope. He won't budge if I say come without the clicker. It seems like I just beat him when all I did was say one word.

I don't mind not using the clicker but he needs to have marker words as no one can deliver treats fast enough to mark all behaviors.

And beyond that, he isn't playing with me. He isn't doing anything.

I feel so lost at the moment. Maybe tomorrow will be different but I don't know what to do now.

ETA: Before today the clicker was a good thing and just the sound of it clipped on the treat bag had him running to me. Thats what I mean. Its not like he freaked orginally.

 

[Eagle3]

Start over from ground zero. I'm wondering if the brace work hurt him in some way, which is why he started reacting to the word? Or did he always react thusly? Skip training for a couple of days and work on re-establishing a good relationship. Stay away from ALL his triggers and just let him be a dog for a couple of days. Re-introduce training when he no longer fears you.

I ask my dog to "help me up" when I want him to brace so I can get up off the ground. He still does it, even though his severe hip displaysia makes him hurt. I just don't put any pressure on his rear end, just his shoulders and only enough pressure to help me up and make him feel useful.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I'm wondering if the brace work hurt him in some way,

I barely touched him. I put pressure about the feeling of a light push. Not even that bad. And when I did it much harder when playing he didn't budge or mind it at all. When I said the word without touching him he freaked. Theres no way I hurt him. I just can't see it. Most especially since i put more pressure on him when playing and he didn't care.

I don't know. I checked him and he seems ok physically. He is very strong in the front so i dont know.

Start over from ground zero.

But that's "priming" the clicker and I tried even muffled and its a no go. I have to give him time now as he won't budge. He won't play. He won't do anything.

Re-introduce training when he no longer fears you.

Yeah, I have no other choice now.

He is 4 yrs old. He has no joint issues, no hip issues, and no pain like that.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Re-introduce training when he no longer fears you.

I don't think he is fearing me as I was on the floor and he came over to me, tail wagging, licked my face. As soon as I tried to give him a treat he slinked off. I think he is fearing training?

 

[scout86]

When I took Chip to "Dog School" last summer, he knew a few simple commands, like 'sit', and would take treats out of my hand. (Honestly, I've never been much of a treat person. My dogs always seem to have done fine with "Good dog!", but the woman who ran the class does treats, so I figured I'd do things her way.) The first time Chip heard a clicker, he ducked and spun around looking for where the noise came from. The second time he heard it, he ran. For the next few minutes, he refused to take a treat, either from my hand or off the ground. I spent a few minutes playing with him and he decided there was no clicker and we could go back to work. The following week, someone ELSE used a clicker and he ducked and lost total interest in anything other than looking for the source of the sound. (Seems like I have a hypervigilant dog.) The instructor had everyone stop using their clicker. He did, eventually, get to where he was sort of ok, some of the time, with other people using clickers.

My point was, Chip QUICKLY associated the treat, which he liked, with the clicker, which was "dangerous" and then refused to take a treat because he seemed to think the treat was dangerous too. I'm guessing your guy made a similar connection. Chip got over it pretty fast. At first, I just let treats be treats, and tried not to associate them with anything. Definitely not with clickers. Also, what are you using for a treat? Desi suggested liverwurst and that's the best thing I found for Chip. REALLY had to resist. I think your guy has connected the word, which he fears, with clickers and then treats. He needs to find out that that connection is in error and he was right the first time, clickers & treats are GOOD. So maybe he can get a treat for playing with you, or just for being there?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Also, what are you using for a treat?

Well I have 4 brands of treats in the treat bag as its always been helpful if he didn't know which one he would get. I have some of his favs in there mixed in.

Higher value is a baggie mixed with small pieces of blain chicken, turkey, pepporoni, and cheese. Then I have peanut butter that goes in his kongs in the crate but used it today as he would do anything for peanut butter.

I can do some play, treat, sneak in a yes or good while playing and treating. I can buy the muffled clicker. Its a softer sound but I can muffle the clicker I have. If he is doing well with the marker words, then maybe add the muffled click here and there. Im talking likely days or even weeks.

God I am so sick about this. One word haulted all of training and i fear stopped it.

If it doesnt seem to be getting better for at least the marker words (as I can just use them) then I will have no choice but to seek out a trainer.

I will also try to see if pressing down on him during play seems to hurt him. If so, we will need to see a vet as he is a pitbull. He is built for that. So if that small amount of pressure caused pain then there is a problem.

 

[scout86]

I'd give it some time before you get too worried.

Have you ever had it happen, in therapy, that your T says something, something totally well intended, and it scares the hell out of you? And he has no idea that was going to happen, or even why? This is kind of like that. In the end, it's nothing but 'a thing'. You work through it and go on.

Chopper has known you quite awhile and trusts you. He just needs a chance to sort out that this isn't as dangerous as he thought it was at first. The less you worry about it, the better. If you're worried in a way that he picks up on, he might decide that there must BE something to be worried about.

Take the rest of the night off and just have fun with your dog. Tomorrow, pick his best thing (with Chip that's "Sit"), ask him to do it however you do and make a HUGE fuss when he does. Then do something else. You know what they say, "Baby steps".