Relationship What Am I Doing Wrong? Outsider's Perspective Needed...

[TheMinsterman]

I wish my conversations went like Fridays, mine feel more like.

Hey, how you doing?
I'm ok, you?
I'm good, started working on my diet and my yoga, had some nice self care days :)
Hmm. Seems like you're happy and don't need me, I knew you didn't care.
*dumfounded confusion*

Or a pleasant conversation then a bit of silence followed by a sudden reveal of something I apparently did or think or feel out of nowhere, but this court doesn't recognise the defendants right to speak, oh no, you get told and then need to shut up because it's too much to handle a reply.

Admittedly, last night was partly my AND her f*ck up.

I need you to stop asking how I am feeling, I feel it means I focus on the negative more and would like to focus more on positives.
Ok, I understand that, it makes complete sense. I agree, I'd like positive conversations.
Oh, btw, my abusive friend is Facebook stalking you to find out where you live.
*I react, like anybody would, with shock, anger, feelings of my privacy being violated*
Some time later...
I literally just said I don't want to focus on the negative.

I had every right to be angry... I am not sure announcing this news just after we agreed to have positive chats was the best idea she ever had!

 

[Buttercup]

I have to agree with @Casey_03 I'm afraid. Should he have texted you to say he's ok? Yes, he should have. But he was out with friends and it doesn't seem like a good time to be pushing things. The conversation escalated quickly, and I know it's very hard to do (trust me, I know!), but that is the time when we should back off and let them go settle down. Very tough when we feel anxious and want to have things settled, but always best to not react right away.

I saw a video from a relationship expert who is an anthropologist as well, and she said among the top three things that can destroy a relationship is reacting. That really hit home for me because I always feel like I have to react right away and can't leave things for the following day. I'm getting better at this, and it is tough. But I find when I do, I process things and the situation doesn't seem as bad as I initially thought it was. And often, when I do react right away, I regret it later.

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

Right up top, when he said:

Him: (Snidely) Nothing is going on, Hojay, I just wanted to have a good night

is where I might have backed off and said, "Oh, cool, I'm glad you had a good time!" and maybe go to "Well, I'm heading to bed here, you need a wake up call?" (cuz my husband and I have a habit of asking that before we say our goodnights) .. OR I might venture to a .. "Oh, cool, did you have the good night you were hoping for?"

He was already baiting with the first comment, cuz he knew you'd already tried to repeatedly contact him, so he was loaded for bear. (in my opinion) .. EVERY time I've tried to push a matter when my husband is already jonesin' for a fight, it has ended up exactly where I did not want things to go. ALREADY with your man's above reply, I would suggest you recognized the "snide" tone, and that should have been your signal not to push it.

Now. Having said that, should you ALWAYS be the one on guard? If it's already your pattern to communicate at that time of night or have a g'night call, etc., he's obviously avoiding you - for whatever his own reasons - it's obviously a "threat" to the relationship - ("snide" tone suggesting at best he's been avoiding and is now jonesin' for a fight, or at worst something like - what's he hiding?!) .. So yah, you guys will need to work out WHY he was avoiding you in the first place - and establish WHY it is "reasonable" for you to expect a response (it's your relational pattern!) .. but not necessarily in the heat of the moment.

I ran afoul of these same kinds of "expectations" dynamics with my husband this weekend, TWICE. :( :( And in both cases, I was kinda in the wrong, insofar as I was trying to persuade him as to my "emotions" in the moment, but not taking into consideration the TRACK RECORD of our relationship. We have a rule to "speak in the now" but we also have a rule to practice "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" ..

I'm kinda leaning into agreement with @Casey_03 on this:

I say that just judging by the example of a conversation you posted above -- it's obvious from that that he has some major resentment going on, and you keep stubbornly trying to force him to discuss Relationship problems that he doesn't want/isn't ready to discuss.

I DO wish you WELL in this .. but it's kinda like with any relationship - you have to eventually decide if this person is "worth it" .. no matter what? I get that "unconditional love" might lead some towards a kind of co-dependence, but I disagree that that is somehow a necessity .. My husband and I always have to check our motives (sometimes I'm afraid I'll lose him, sometimes he's afraid he'll lose me, so we can get overly sensitive about certain things), but on the whole we both GIVE 100% into the relationship - and regularly work to check our "expectations" on each other, and to have other relationships in our world that offer fulfillment where each other cannot - such as, I have a couple close girlfriends who provide for my need for conversation about work related stuff, or what not, where my work REALLY stresses him out cuz he was fired from where I work - that's how we met .. but that a whole 'nother story. ;)

If my husband were as dismissive and snide with me? - and that's not to say he couldn't have been; I've stood in need of his forgiveness many times in our journey, too, as I've learned about "triggers" and how to avoid, etc. - but if he were that as apt to exercise a kind of vindictive streak? We would NOT be successful long term .. I really FEEL for you :( .. I have NO justification for his behavior, but I do see, from what you've shared, where work is needed on both sides IF this relationship is worth it, and you BOTH want to succeed .. :inlove:

I wish you the best .. I hope you guys DO go to counseling. And I hope - if it's RIGHT for both of you - that you find and cling to what you LOVE about each other, so these valuable qualities don't get smothered by the current, latent resentments. :) :(

~WU

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

PS - I suggest bringing that above sample conversation with you to one of your counselling sessions - especially if you're both "teachable" on this .. :inlove:

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

But he was out with friends and it doesn't seem like a good time to be pushing things. The conversation escalated quickly, and I know it's very hard to do (trust me, I know!), but that is the time when we should back off and let them go settle down. Very tough when we feel anxious and want to have things settled, but always best to not react right away.

Yeah :) :( ... This. :) :inlove:

 

[Hojay]

Wow, a lot of great and insightful thoughts here. Thank you for reading through that whole post of mine. A couple of thoughts about your responses:

But at the same time, if you are calling him while he's out at the bar and trying to get into the nitty gritty of the relationship .... well, to me that's just bizarre.

Thing was, I wasn't trying to get into the nitty gritty. I wanted him to not jump down my throat because I acknowledged that it was, in fact, quite weird he hadn't gotten in touch. Given our relationship and communication pattern, it was plain as day obvious it was weird. Am I supposed to ignore that? The convo above was, of course, a lot more detailed than I described. After the "snide" remark, I didn't immediately press it, but he could tell from my reaction that I wasn't 100% pleased. That's what set the whole convo off. Should I become a better actress to better protect his delicate man feelings? Sorry, not to get cyncal, but I'm hitting my head against a wall here right now.

It's the same dynamic -- him explicitly telling you he needs to calm down and you trying to force him to "understand" your side when he's obviously not ready to.

From my perspective, when he says the words I need to calm down, I stop pressing the issue. If he keeps ranting and raving at me, I will say a word to defend myself, but will try and channel the convo to him calming down. I'm eternally confused how me broaching the subject when he is calmer means I'm not letting him calm down?

That really hit home for me because I always feel like I have to react right away and can't leave things for the following day.

Yes, that makes sense. I have this thing where I like to voice my feeling in the moment, get it over with. The thought of seething in silence, him thinking he did everything just A-OK fine, then tiptoeing to find the right moment to voice my hurt...that just seems like dragging it on longer than it needs to. Of course, when he's triggered, there's no discussing it.

ALREADY with your man's above reply, I would suggest you recognized the "snide" tone, and that should have been your signal not to push it.

This is where I get confused. He is allowed to speak like that to me, and I'm supposed to back away and protect him from his own horrible behavior? Isn't that also a definition of co-dependence? Shouldn't the proverbial horse be saddled in a way where he doesn't speak to me like that in the first place? And if he speaks to me like that, he can't blame me for having an emotional reaction to it?

Now. Having said that, should you ALWAYS be the one on guard? If it's already your pattern to communicate at that time of night or have a g'night call, etc., he's obviously avoiding you - for whatever his own reasons - it's obviously a "threat" to the relationship - ("snide" tone suggesting at best he's been avoiding and is now jonesin' for a fight, or at worst something like - what's he hiding?!) .. So yah, you guys will need to work out WHY he was avoiding you in the first place - and establish WHY it is "reasonable" for you to expect a response (it's your relational pattern!) .. but not necessarily in the heat of the moment.

Yes, this is the issues. The whole scenario seemed like an actual "threat" to the relationship. In the moment, there was no way to come to an understanding that it WASN'T a threat. Nor was it days later when he had calmed down. The only threat there was for him was me "not letting him calm down," which, in my opinion, I had!

PS - I suggest bringing that above sample conversation with you to one of your counselling sessions - especially if you're both "teachable" on this .. :inlove:

Most definitely, a great idea! We are "teachable," but for my part, I'm only going to calibrate as much as he acknowledges that it's not really me who is the problem. Sure I do things wrong too, but who doesn't? To get your ass handed to you for something, and then get blamed for the relationship's problems...well. I hope he can see where he went wrong in that convo too.

I know I'm stubborn here, but I really need to look out for myself. I'm much less stubborn when talking with him, for sure...

 

[Casey_03]

This is where I get confused. He is allowed to speak like that to me, and I'm supposed to back away and protect him from his own horrible behavior?

THIS THIS THIS!!!!! There it is -- resentment. This is the problem. You absolutely ARE looking for something by confronting him the way you do -- an argument, a confrontation, an apology, something. You asked in the title of this thread, "What am I doing wrong?" I'd say that's exactly what you're doing wrong -- gearing up for a confrontation when he's already avoiding you and clearly doesn't want to talk to you. You're seeking for your feelings to be validated when he's already made it abundantly clear that he's not ready/in the right mood to do that. Is he right? Absolutely not, and he needs to work on how he treats you. But you're ignoring numerous signals from him that caution you to back off -- and the fact that you ignore them makes it seem like you really do want to argue to work off some of the resentment you already have inside.

I think we can all agree that he's being a jerk, but you did ask us to identify what it is you're doing wrong -- so you clearly realize you're not using the best method for dealing with him.

You're not supposed to just back away and protect him from his own horrible behavior -- it has nothing to do with protecting him. You should back away to clear your own head, to take care of yourself, to de-escalate the situation -- there are myriad reasons to back away, but only one reason to persist in trying to make him understand things when he's made it clear he doesn't want to talk - to argue.

i have been in numerous relationships with this same dynamic, and I usually fell into the same trap you did. It is co-dependent and disastrous -- it will never help matters, it will only make things worse.

A more important question is -- how often does he behave this way? Is this something new, or have you been dealing with this behavior for a long time? If it's new, I think you both need to figure out why he's acting this way now. If it's not new, I think you need to think long and hard about whether you're prepared to be with someone who acts like this.

 

[Hojay]

@Casey_03 ....ok, I think the message is slowly sinking in. You're right. I think what I'm trying to do is keep the relationship "clean" for the both of us by confronting things that don't fly with me. A better way to have handled that situation would have been to either 1. not contact him at all (which would have made me go to sleep with quite a bad feeling) or 2. contact him, but not confronting the issue (which would have felt a bit like playacting), and then broaching the subject at a different time. I suspect, however, any time I would have broached the subject would have created a conversation like this. I think the timing of it was a bit secondary.

What struck me here is that you said I'm ignoring the signals. I think I am. He was signalling me quite a bit by not contacting me, and I should have seen it for what it is. Not a good sign. The options then would be to either try and talk to him (quite hard right now,) or kick him to the curb. That's my black and white thinking right now...but I guess that's where I'm at.

To be fair, this was the very first and only time he has ever gotten strange about contacting me. We don't have a track record of controlling each other, or making each other feel guilty about going out, those kinds of things. However, this kind of conversation happens a lot, if not 90% of the time, when there is something pertaining to him that I feel emotional about, or want to get to the bottom of. So resentment has been building from my side yes. And form his side too, quite obviously.

 

[scout86]

If you both really think this relationship is with pursuing, maybe one of the rules my T has suggested would help. "Everyone gets to call 'time out' when they need it, but that person also has to call 'time in' when they're ready to carry on the conversation." You set the rule up before hand and both agree to abide by it. Which would mean he HAS to come back to the conversation. (You might come up with a loose guideline for what the approximate time frame might be.) But you have to let him go until he's ready. And he would need to do the same if you ask for a time out.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Watch out for resentment Hojay, because I will be honest, I definitely resent my ExSO. It's not nice and it's not healthy, I want you to work through it BEFORE it messes things up.

 

[Mytime]

This was my day yesterday. Hubby went away on a guys weekend. Normal he would text and say " Hi having a good time, miss you and the kids. Love u. I didn't get one. Was I hurt, yes but I knew he's ok, because I didn't get a phone call saying otherwise. So he must be having fun.
Today's the day he's coming home and it been snowing, so I get our boys to do the driveway. The boys are getting there coats on and who just got home. The hubby! Now he's trying to get the trailer in the driveway so he can get the skidoo, off. I open the door happy to see him and surprised he's home early. I say hi how was your weekend? What do I get in return, " tell the kids to get out here and do the driveway! I'm like, what the f**k. My reply is, they were just on their way out. Him) I just want it done! Me) I said they were just on their way out, we didn't expect you home till around dinner. Then I closed the door. Now I'm pissed, because I'm thinking he should know better. He should know that I would make sure the driveway was done so he could drive into it with no problem. So now I have a choice, I can sit here and get madder by the minute, because I feel he sure know me better. That I wouldn't just let the driveway sit. Or I can do some self care and cool down. I went up stairs, did a facial, had a shower etc. Calmed myself down before interacting with him again. He came upstairs after an hour and apologized for yelling about the driveway. He said he wasn't pissed about the driveway. He was pissed because he struggled getting into the driveway and broke a light on his trailer. I said thanks for the apology. I'm sorry for snapping to, I thought you were implying that I should have had driveway done before you got home.
The rest of the night was good. I did plan on talking to him about, how I would of liked a text the day before and if that was something he could do. But I knew it could wait till maybe tonight. Stepping back, isn't about letting people walk all over you. It about respecting each other's abilities to talk about what is bothering you. I know my story is about small things. But it something we have both worked very hard on. Bring calmness into the relationship.

 

[grimalkin]

Ooh, this has really made me see another side of my and soon-to-be-ex-husband's relationship. I never even thought of resentment entering into my frame of mind, but I know it did. I felt like (and still do) we had to play by "his" rules of engagement, and that was that. It wasn't until our last counseling session that our therapist said that I don't have to play by his rules. But I can't expect him to care at all about my own, either.

I never knew what to call my feelings of overwhelming unfairness through it all - any push on my part was met with "If you don't like it, leave," even if I had valid concerns (about name calling, rages, other behavior). It really did lead to co-dependency, on both our parts. I tried to please him, to avoid the fights and fear that he'd just dump me because I'm being too...too (which, ultimately, led to him dumping me - there was no "me" left. Never mind that it was when I was being my most "me" that he picked me apart the most).

My last solo counseling session touched on the co-dependency. Might be something I need to delve into further.

From my own experience, it's also very hard to admit that the supporter, even through all the love, might not be the best person for a sufferer to be with, not to mention the reverse: that it might not be in the supporter's best interests to put up with a sufferer if the sufferer isn't willing to realize their behavior isn't healthy or fair.

I'm a "fixer" - if something isn't working, I want to figure out how to make it work. For a sufferer who may be triggered by any relationship...stuff...that really doesn't work. And to me, just letting issues sit means I have to, basically, not let myself care; and if I don't care about my relationship, what's the point (to really distill it down)? I have gotten very good at picking my battles, which means that I don't fight unless it's important to me. And if even THOSE issues are too much for a sufferer to deal with - that's not good.

However, this kind of conversation happens a lot, if not 90% of the time, when there is something pertaining to him that I feel emotional about, or want to get to the bottom of. So resentment has been building from my side yes. And form his side too, quite obviously.

And that's the crux I bet. Ultimately, it's not fair to someone to have to let everything go just to keep peace, because their sufferer can't deal with it. *many hugs to you, @Hojay*