Afghanistan went Taliban after Iran went Shia. Used to be many women doctors, lawyers and business people. Many of the well educated, business types left both countries when Iran changed. Training & arming the Taliban to fight off the Russians gave them the edge. Bin Ladin was there too as a freedom fighter. One crazy cycle. I wouldn't expect anything to change until Iran changes. Pakistan is even more complicated.
-
We are a multilingual website again. Read the notice about this.
-
Understand AI use at MyPTSD: all AI use is explained in our AI help page. AI use is by choice here. It exists if you want it, but does nothing unless you choose to use it.
Anyone Up To Talk About Trashcanistan With Me?
- Post starter Afghanmadman52nd
- Start date
- Status
Sleeping Dragon
Platinum Member
At the risk of offending........I gotta add something on the "winning heats and minds" thing. I'll qualify this by giving credit to all of us who shared rations with the locals, provided medical aid to sick and wounded civilians and made it possible for kids to go to school and women to be treated like humans. I'll give even more credit to the Special Forces guys who made the locals part of their family.
HOWEVER, It makes me crazy to think that our leadership would send an armed force to "win hearts and minds". THAT'S NOT WHAT SOLDIERS, MARINES, SAILORS AND AIRMEN ARE TRAINED TO DO. It'l like trying to fix a watch with a sledge hammer. There's no problem getting the thing open. But, there's not much left to put back together.
At the first sign of incoming my dragon didn't give a fat rat's ass about hearts and minds. At that point there were only my Brothers. Everyone else was simply a target. Did I ever intentionally take the life of a civilian? NEVER. Were civilians killed as a result of combat. ABSOLUTELY. And, it's tough to win the heart of a farmer after his barn is blown up, his livestock killed and a member of his family shot (accidently or not).
Leadership must understand that the military is a killing machine. That's what it was designed, trained and equipped to do. It's not a diplomatic tool.
SD
HOWEVER, It makes me crazy to think that our leadership would send an armed force to "win hearts and minds". THAT'S NOT WHAT SOLDIERS, MARINES, SAILORS AND AIRMEN ARE TRAINED TO DO. It'l like trying to fix a watch with a sledge hammer. There's no problem getting the thing open. But, there's not much left to put back together.
At the first sign of incoming my dragon didn't give a fat rat's ass about hearts and minds. At that point there were only my Brothers. Everyone else was simply a target. Did I ever intentionally take the life of a civilian? NEVER. Were civilians killed as a result of combat. ABSOLUTELY. And, it's tough to win the heart of a farmer after his barn is blown up, his livestock killed and a member of his family shot (accidently or not).
Leadership must understand that the military is a killing machine. That's what it was designed, trained and equipped to do. It's not a diplomatic tool.
SD
Sleeping Dragon
Platinum Member
I understand how you feel Ned, and share your feelings. There were kids in Minh Hoa village who went to school, saw a doctor and benefited in ways unimaginable to their parents because of the guys from 2nd Battalion / 5th Marines. It happened all over Vietnam in countless villages year after year because of many units from many nations.
But, in the process America alone lost nearly sixty thousand KIA while they and their allies killed roughly two million Vietnamese. That's a lot of callateral damage in spite of our best efforts to avoid civilian casualties.
My only point is there has to be a better way. We keep making the same mistakes over and over again. The military was designed to engage and distroy ememy forces. If that military is forced to try to sort out the good guys from the bad guys a whole lot of folks are gonna get killed in the process. We're still trying to fix that watch with the hammer.
Again, no offence intended to anyone who laid their ass on the line for those who couldn't defend themselves.
SD
But, in the process America alone lost nearly sixty thousand KIA while they and their allies killed roughly two million Vietnamese. That's a lot of callateral damage in spite of our best efforts to avoid civilian casualties.
My only point is there has to be a better way. We keep making the same mistakes over and over again. The military was designed to engage and distroy ememy forces. If that military is forced to try to sort out the good guys from the bad guys a whole lot of folks are gonna get killed in the process. We're still trying to fix that watch with the hammer.
Again, no offence intended to anyone who laid their ass on the line for those who couldn't defend themselves.
SD
- Post starter
- #43
Afghanmadman52nd
Bronze Member
"At the first sign of incoming my dragon didn't give a fat rat's ass about hearts and minds. At that point there were only my Brothers. Everyone else was simply a target. Did I ever intentionally take the life of a civilian? NEVER. Were civilians killed as a result of combat. ABSOLUTELY. And, it's tough to win the heart of a farmer after his barn is blown up, his livestock killed and a member of his family shot (accidently or not)."
Amen bro, I definately concur.... God forbid you ever shot one of their f*cking goats, the next Shura held was sure to be full of a lot of angry Pashtuns and an almost impossible to fix communication "FUBAR"....
And yeah, when I was standing over a piece of live ordnance, lost a buddy, or heard bullets zip by, I was thinking about hearts and minds alright, only taking them, not winning them I guess.... It is really a no win situation, we certainly cant trust the villagers because they will lie every time saying there is nothing in the road, no insurgents etc. out of fear of the retribution of the aforementioned insurgents if they help us or even breathe a hint in the right direction. Yet at the same time they cant trust us because you hear the same thing over and over again "You have guns, they have guns, what are we to do" I must have heard that phrase spoken directly to me at least a hundred times...
So yeah, the whole "hearts and minds" thing really is f*cked, because as you said SD, that is not what we are trained to do. I was an EOD Technician not a damn social worker, sure didn't get paid as both, but had to do quite a bit of the "social work" ha...
I mean dont get me wrong, I HATE chocolate and whenever I got the liquid hershey bars in care packages, they would go right to the Afghan children. Not because I felt it was my duty, but because I thought maybe I could brighten the day of a child who has no idea that he/she will either end up A) A poor farmer or wife of one. or B) An insurgent or wife of one, either of which will most likely not live past fifty years old at best.
Spc. Dave
Amen bro, I definately concur.... God forbid you ever shot one of their f*cking goats, the next Shura held was sure to be full of a lot of angry Pashtuns and an almost impossible to fix communication "FUBAR"....
And yeah, when I was standing over a piece of live ordnance, lost a buddy, or heard bullets zip by, I was thinking about hearts and minds alright, only taking them, not winning them I guess.... It is really a no win situation, we certainly cant trust the villagers because they will lie every time saying there is nothing in the road, no insurgents etc. out of fear of the retribution of the aforementioned insurgents if they help us or even breathe a hint in the right direction. Yet at the same time they cant trust us because you hear the same thing over and over again "You have guns, they have guns, what are we to do" I must have heard that phrase spoken directly to me at least a hundred times...
So yeah, the whole "hearts and minds" thing really is f*cked, because as you said SD, that is not what we are trained to do. I was an EOD Technician not a damn social worker, sure didn't get paid as both, but had to do quite a bit of the "social work" ha...
I mean dont get me wrong, I HATE chocolate and whenever I got the liquid hershey bars in care packages, they would go right to the Afghan children. Not because I felt it was my duty, but because I thought maybe I could brighten the day of a child who has no idea that he/she will either end up A) A poor farmer or wife of one. or B) An insurgent or wife of one, either of which will most likely not live past fifty years old at best.
Spc. Dave
Chin Strapped
Platinum Member
Very good point. Hearts and land mines for us in 2009-2010 meant nothiing but foot patrols, ground domination and reassurance patrols. Complete joke. They knew we'd go walkabout, so the laid IEDs everywhere. When we were contacted we couldn't do any proper fire and manoeuvres, just have to go firm and take whatever was coming. Felt useless and seriously helpless. But yet all of our training consisted of full scale attacks, flannking the lot; flanking would have got you in a pickle. Should have rolled in and not give a shit. Made me sit up and think that dragon; very true.
I remember on one of the missions I was on we had a f*ckin retard from CNN following us around and trying to get some footage. We started moving towards a village to do a raid and this jackass started bitching about not being able to keep the pace cuz of having to carry all his equipment. He actually told us we needed to slow down. You believe that?!! I didn't care for them anyway. It was in '02 so I can't remember exactly what I said to him, but it started out with "Hey f*ckhead....
OldDoorGunner
Diamond Member
Guys please don't take this the wrong way. This is just me and how I see it. We have wars, but small ones. Not in terms of time or the number of soldiers. I am a Nam vet, I see Nam as a f*cking testing/training ground, it was the first time a helicopter was ever armed in combat. How many Countries had soldiers in Nam? A lot of other shit if you look for it. It was also Political BS and that started back in Korea and continues today.
I was told that I had to kill the evil Communist and free the other good people. That was the so called reason. However how could we tell who was the f*cking enemy and who was the good people. You younger soldiers of today had to deal with that as well in your war. Evil religious terrorist and 911 was your reason. 911 was a damn good reason, but we did not need to send one soldier from any Country. We have the tools that could have been used and f*cked those evil religious terrorist bastards to hell in less than 24 hours. I'm talking stone age and glass!!! Why didn't it happen? We needed a new small war.......we always seem to need a f*cking small war....Since 2 nukes were dropped on Japan, that stopped any big wars like WW2. WW3 would be, end of game for the most part.
So us young guys and gals go to war, because we are told to, we feel we need to, it's the right thing to do!!! For God and Country. We do the job we are asked to do and more!!! We come home and get treated like shit and now we are being called terrorist in our own country.......
No I will not ask the question!!!! To ask it would cause to much pain and heartache!!!!
Sorry for my anger and rage, it just had to get out!!! The Beast got off it's leash!!!
J R
I was told that I had to kill the evil Communist and free the other good people. That was the so called reason. However how could we tell who was the f*cking enemy and who was the good people. You younger soldiers of today had to deal with that as well in your war. Evil religious terrorist and 911 was your reason. 911 was a damn good reason, but we did not need to send one soldier from any Country. We have the tools that could have been used and f*cked those evil religious terrorist bastards to hell in less than 24 hours. I'm talking stone age and glass!!! Why didn't it happen? We needed a new small war.......we always seem to need a f*cking small war....Since 2 nukes were dropped on Japan, that stopped any big wars like WW2. WW3 would be, end of game for the most part.
So us young guys and gals go to war, because we are told to, we feel we need to, it's the right thing to do!!! For God and Country. We do the job we are asked to do and more!!! We come home and get treated like shit and now we are being called terrorist in our own country.......
No I will not ask the question!!!! To ask it would cause to much pain and heartache!!!!
Sorry for my anger and rage, it just had to get out!!! The Beast got off it's leash!!!
J R
In hindsight, 40 years from now, I'm sure that everyone will have a different idea of what the current wars are all about and what should have happened.
Like everything there are plans within plans within plans. Things we're all just not aware of, even the people fighting the wars.
I'm with you JR, personally I think they should have nuked the whole area and been done with it for a while. You know the drill; someone punches you you hit them with a bat. Someone brings a bat you bring a knife, someone brings a knife you bring a gun, ect, ect, ect.
We were taught in the Marines; hit your enemy hard, fast and ruthlessly. Good credo to live by.
Jar
Like everything there are plans within plans within plans. Things we're all just not aware of, even the people fighting the wars.
I'm with you JR, personally I think they should have nuked the whole area and been done with it for a while. You know the drill; someone punches you you hit them with a bat. Someone brings a bat you bring a knife, someone brings a knife you bring a gun, ect, ect, ect.
We were taught in the Marines; hit your enemy hard, fast and ruthlessly. Good credo to live by.
Jar
OldDoorGunner
Diamond Member
Spc. Dave, you know if you were in Nam, you would have made one hell of a door gunner!!! I don't think I could have done your job....(n) One thing I always thought was somewhat funny in combat. Was the jobs one would love to do. We would get some ground pounders that wanted to be door gunners. After 1 maybe 2 missions, they would say f*ck this shit, I want to go back to the bush....I volunteered to go out on a few patrols, can't say I liked it, (was a good experience, as I was not 11B) but it did give me some insight of what was going on in the bush, that helped me in doing my job from the air.
J R
- Status
Similar posts
Donation drives
Trending content
-
-
What Are You Feeling Today? Not Thinking, Rather Feeling! Can You Identify Yours?
- goingonhope
Comments: 34K -
-
-
-
Latest posts
-
-
had a dream i was cutting myself again and it felt good
- Latest: William_Peters
-
-
