Relationship Am i naive??

[Sweetpea76]

I think trust issues and self preservation instincts fuel this kind of behavior. I'm dangerous because he let me in, and he doesn't usually let people in. He's gotta find the bad before it finds him.

We've been together more than five years and it still happens, although it's less frequent now. It used to happen every month or so maybe... every few weeks. He'd find something to pick a fight about. My "tone" or word choice would be a culprit. It happened more often over text than in person. He tends to want to text when he is more symptomatic than talk or see me, so it makes sense. I had to learn to shut that shit down. I cannot argue for 6 hours that I meant exactly what I said and there was no hidden meaning. Or that I didn't cop an attitude over text. That's crazy making. Now it happens maybe every 2-3 months. I don't engage, and he's pissed for a few days then gets over himself.

I'm almost kind of zen about it. I love him to pieces, but if he leaves me because I'm not engaging in his crazy bullshit then he leaves me. I cannot live like that. I think he sees that now.

It's hard work being a supporter. And while it seems selfish or unromantic, you have to protect your own sanity. If not you end up with all kind of issues too, believe me.

 

[ByrnesT]

It rings very familiar with me when you describe yourself as a threat to your partner because he has to trust you, and the finding the bad before letting you in. I find this particularly with my sufferer with me being a man, & she doesn’t trust men. I read a very good metaphor for this before; if your partner is scared of dogs, you wouldn’t ask a dog to convince them that dogs are in fact ok. It simply isn’t going to work!

Wow. It’s spooky for me who’s new to sharing with people how similar some of these stories are. As much as my sufferer can react in whatever mode of contact we are in at the time, if she has any option, she will insist on text. She likes to rant & type & ultimately not read what I’m saying.

The bit that does scare me is to hear that you can go through this every few months & it was maybe every few weeks when things were worse. I’m finding I could be in this situation nearly daily. And it can last from hours to days or even weeks. It’s a real eye opener to just how unhealthy this really is. Not that I didn’t know that! But maybe things are even worse than I feared.

I think you’re right in your attitude of if they leave because of us not engaging in the unhealthy side of the relationship, then so be it. Far easier said than done! But that’s the road I’m trying my hardest to walk down now. Enough is enough really.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I think eventually you get get "over it"... over the drama, over the crazymaking. Love only cures all in fairy tales. In real life it's no cure for a mental illness.

 

[The Albatross]

Do some self examination of your own part/role in the relationship. What did you want, what now DO you want, is the person someone you can do that with or not? You've got 2 1/2 years or so history to draw on... plus your own baggage. Only you can know.

 

[Supervixn]

K guys well... maybe I'm crazy because I see myself in your gf. I knew the second you said she gave you her blessing that a fight was bound to happen; considering she was so adamantly against it to begin with. She might've talked herself into being cool with it, then those little monsters inside started up and she took it out on you in *fear. You... who did nothing wrong at the end of the day. But.... still.

Trust is a tricky thing and I don't think it's as well thought out and logical or morally tied up as people are trying to make it. Yes it does depend on her type of trauma. I come from CSA and I don't trust male intent for a millisecond, despite all the love and care I have for a person. Some people are just broken in that way and need help. The whole thing sounds silly and workable. You love her. She loves you. You didn't do anything. You'll never have another female guest alone with you in your apt... not too bad a price to pay IMHO. I wouldn't allow it if I were her... never ever, lol. But we are all works in progress aren't we

 

[ByrnesT]

Thank you @Supervixn for your reply. Apologies for slow response, I needed to take a back seat from actively being on this forum for a little while.

Yes I can see exactly what you’re saying & recognise exactly all of that in my partner. She doesn’t trust men in the slightest (although I think one of her biggest problems is the fact she does trust me - which then means she really can’t trust me cos I could abuse that; a tricky one to manage from my end!).

Do you mind if I ask you some more about it tho as you seem to share a lot of similar feelings to what my partner has? I understand her struggling with this & I understand why it’s so tough for her. And as I had described previously it was quite unique circumstances as this was a friend from the other side of the world, otherwise I wouldn’t normally expect to have women stay with me. But this whole “silly and workable situation” as you (correctly!) describe it is still ongoing over a month later.

My sufferer has laid down the ultimatum that unless I 100% guarantee that no woman ever stays with me again then we are over. Now, as I have repeatedly said, the chances of a woman staying with me again is between slim & zero, it had never happened before. And I have offered her all the reassurances & comfort I can manage in the face of a lot of anger. But I feel uncomfortable making a promise like that. I feel it comes from an unhealthy place, I feel that once I make that promise then I am making a rod for my own back & ultimately I don’t think ultimatums make for a very happy/healthy relationship.

Could you possibly offer further insight as to your feelings about this?

 

[Hojay]

Well...I'm just going to jump in here and out myself: I have pretty extreme trust issues. And I'm a supporter here, not suffering from PTSD. To me, sadly, it's never about "if" a guy will screw up, it's "when" and all that stems from my family background and previous relationships.

That said, it's MY responsibility to not let my trust issues evolve into control issues. Do I have an urge to check up on him? Sure. Do I worry about his female acquaintances? Yup. Do I tell him what he can and cannot do and with whom? Hell no, that's not a relationship I want to be in.

So, as a trust-struggling person, I'd say, don't for a millisecond consider yielding to her demands of control over whom you are allowed to have over or see. That would not be helping her. That would be FEEDING the illusion that she has control over people in her life. Of course it's helpful when my partner is aware of my trust issues, talks to me about it, and maybe throws out an assurance or two, but I need to come to terms and find a way with my feeling on my own. It's hard...but the alternative is frightening and wrong.

As to everything else above--I've been with my partner for 2 1/2 years. We've had times where every day was an irrational day, then times where every two weeks or so he'd lose his marbles over something, followed by months of peace. It comes back though, and it's incredibly draining. It's taken a few cycles but I'm now downright unwilling to engage with the crazy. You can't argue with crazy, explain yourself to crazy, or find sympathy from crazy. At the end of the day, it's the largest lesson in patience I have ever learned. Disengage and wait till he's stable enough to face the music.

The biggest learning curve has been on him though: recognize the onset of crazy, communicate the onset of crazy, and disengage as to not disseminate the crazy. Works most of the time. Times it doesn't are still a struggle.

[No disrespect with the word "crazy." I don't think sufferers are crazy. It's just a tongue-in-cheek blanket term for this post]

 

[ByrnesT]

Well...I'm just going to jump in here and out myself: I have pretty extreme trust issues. And I'm a suppo...

Thanks so much @Hojay for being so honest. And so sorry to hear you have such low expectations of men after your experiences. I am all too aware of how a lot of men are so I’m not going to naively defend us all to you! But I hope one day you can believe we’re not all cut from the same cloth.

Thank you for confirming I wasn’t alone in how I felt about this. Especially as you are saying you have those trust issues yourself. I am all for treading around certain issues gently for her, reassuring her, even to a certain extent avoiding things that I know are going to upset her. But, I also feel I can’t give into the ultimatums. I can accommodate to an extent, but maybe it’s for her to recognise she’s overly jealous & that I am loyal to her & therefore for her to work at improving that. Rather than me just giving into her every demand.

I have been on the receiving end of so much anger for speaking to women (even when she is right next to me), for speaking to her friends, for being in photos on Facebook with females...etc. I’m told I must never have any woman in my home at all, never to dance with another woman (I have many lifelong female friends who are like sisters to me), it’s all disrespectful to her. Yet she can do all those things. When I point out the hypocrisy that she appears in photos sitting on male colleagues laps, arms around them etc & I give her the credit that it’s all completely innocent, it doesn’t matter. Her reasoning being that “well you’re ok with it, so it’s fine for me to do it. But I’m not ok with it so you’re hurting me by being seen with other women”. When my best friend’s partner held my arm in a photo, she told me “I could go out & get your best friend to f**k me in an instance if I wanted to”. She was so angry at this girl holding my arm she had no idea what she was saying to me about my very best friend. When I later reminded her that she had said that, she couldn’t even remember it. The only person I feel being disrespected in all this is me.

I can certainly relate to the way you describe your hectic up & down relationship. What depresses me so much about my situation is when I hear you describe some occasional periods of peace lasting a couple of weeks, maybe even months. As tough as that still is of course, I’ve never had any respite from any of this. I would say 3/4 days would be an absolute best, & I remember those as real stand out weeks.

I think my biggest mistake in all of that is battling with the “crazy” as you say. I’ve made the error of trying to reason, trying to rationalise things, trying to get through to her. It’s been an absolute waste of my time & I know now the completely wrong thing to do.

My current status is that we are not together tho. Me not giving into this ultimatum has led to her saying goodbye. I actually spoke to her & got through to her one day & thought it was resolved. It wasn’t tho. She’s said goodbye many times so it’s hard to know where I actually stand! But I think it might be more real this time as she has boxed herself into a corner.

I had my first session with a therapist this week to try & clear my head. I have told my partner/ex I will always love her, I will always be available to her, but unless she starts to get some help & show me she recognises what she’s doing, what she needs to do, then I accept her decision to walk away. But that I will now not live my life in misguided hope.

 

[Supervixn]

BrynesT, I agree with how you've handled things. I do this stuff too and it's like a neurotic grab for control over something that is a really deeply threatening fear. That's all we see and feel in that triggered moment.

I understand her side too because if my boyfriend said that to me, I'd leave too.. although you did the right thing. Ugh people are complicated eh. We can't snap into health based on the possible failure of a relationship or another's feelings etc. She probably needs time to heal. It's kindhearted of you to continue to be there for her should she need. Best wishes to you both.

 

[ByrnesT]

@Supervixn thank you so much for your honesty & clarity. I am so appreciative to hear your perspective. And believe it or not I appreciate you being honest enough to say you would walk away from me too.

It’s interesting tho that you still say I did the “right” thing even tho you know you would react the same way. Can I ask, in the long term, when you’re in a better place, would you appreciate your partner for staying with what is “right”? Or would you resent them for putting you through it?

Thank you. I’m not 100% sure I’m strong enough to not contact her again yet. But I know I must try, even tho she’ll hate me for that too.

 

[Supervixn]

You're not about ultimatums and you proved it. She's not about to give up her ultimatum and she proved that as well.

You did the right thing. She needs more help that only a professional can give. If ultimatums are an issue for you, then so be it-- that's what it is and that's who you are and what you believe. You're no more or less entitled to convictions and emotions and attitudes than she is, despite the PTSD. You have the right to refuse treatment from people who treat you in a way you do not agree with.

My boyfriend and I are in a similar kind of situation. Except I don't do ultimatums, I tend to bully my way into what I feel I need. It's like I have to break someone down internally and mentally to soothe my own fears, by MAKING a person change what is scaring me. Not healthy. I don't agree with what I do nor am I proud of it but this PTSD thing is a monster. I don't even see myself doing it when I clearly am. We are still fighting about something that happened in April. Our relationship is usually up and down with mostly downs due to PTSD. Its always something. It's always painful. I hope for better because we do love each other.

I hear that you love her. I sense that you are wishing to bury the hatchet and maybe try again at some point. PTSD will just keep rearing its ugly head, to harm again. It's got to be something you can handle being around. It's a hell of a ride.

If ultimatums are the issue now....Once THAT has been conquered, it will most likely be something else... then something else.... its a mental illness after all. Anxiety. Fight or flight. Anger. Mistrust. Depression. Heavy things to be around and support someone through. If I were you, I'd sit down by myself for a while and honestly assess things and decide if it's really something you can deal with.

 

[ByrnesT]

Again, thank you for your honesty @Supervixn . The thing is that I end up feeling like I’m giving an ultimatum by not standing for ultimatums! It’s a chicken & egg situation! Haha

The thing is, there are certain “ultimatums” we could & should all make I guess. If you cheat on me/abuse me/violent towards me etc etc. But my sufferer turns her unhappy feelings into ultimatums. And often those unhappy feelings are not really about me I feel. And regularly not based on what actually really happened either. Yet I face losing her constantly for them.

It’s interesting when you say you need to break someone down in order for them to change what is scaring you. I wonder if this is what she is doing as well at times. Think I’ll have to give some more thought to that but I think it’s a strong possibility at times.

The thing is, as hard as it still is & all so very real at the time for you, clearly here speaking to me you have a lot of clarity & awareness. I think if I had this with my partner I would feel I had at least something to work with. Whether it would be enough or not I can’t know, but I think it would give me hope. She shows very very little of this self awareness tho. Hindsight does not produce clarity with her.

Oh you are so right about there always being another hurdle as soon as one problem is “conquered”. I have bounced from one drama into the next most days for 2.5 years. Yet you’re right, I do still very much love her with all my heart.

I am going to try to think about how capable I really am to take this on now as you suggest. That is one of the areas I hope to explore now I’m seeing a therapist. But as I’ve said, unless she begins to get help for herself as well, I fear we are doomed anyway.