Service dogs and training

[lostforgottensoul]

People still have to behave in ways that allow them to be admitted to begin with. Whether that’s wearing a jacket at a restaurant, or a shirt & shoes at a fast food place; the right to break the dress code -or other rules- of any establishment isn’t protected under federal law.

So, let me get this straight. Taking the service dog out for it a min. You all are stating that someone could legally kick me out of Walmart because I have the word "f*ck" on my shirt?

And since service dogs do not have a certian dress in the US by the ADA, those patches are perfectlly legal. The ADA does not specify dress and neither does the Florida State Statue (where I live - as I stated before, know your laws but yes, when state and federal law conflict the least restrive one applies. Google that).

And then we have the several handlers that use those patches that I've spoken to (one has 3 of them that have "f*ck" on them. One that only says "f*ck" - none have astricks - and she has a small dog so very little room for patches and they stand out more) and has never been kicked out of any business due to it. Nor had any trouble due to it. It kept people away and that is what I'm after. And it was brought up by her on my video of the 2 men following me around in Walgreens which was downright scary. I understand there will be public encounters with a service dog and am fine with that. But, as a handler, I have a right to not be followed. And I couldn't find any staff to complain to. And that would look rather paranoid anyway.

But, like I said, I dress my dog for the situation. That same handler with a small service dog brings him to college where she takes those patches off. When Chopper is going to work with me those patches would come off and he would not wear the vest that has big lettering that says "DO NOT DARE TOUCH" down his back but rather his more professional vest. Thus why all patches are removeable.

I only stated my want to get that patch. I don"t have it yet. But since the ADA and Florida State Statue do not state a certian dress for a dog and I personally have worn a graphic tee with the word "f*ck" on it and no one looked twice, I expect to not have access issues. But again, that is why the patch is removeable.

 

[Gs172003]

I don't believe be have to allow anything in that is vulgar service animal or not.

Emotional support animals are not covered and we don't let them in at all. Ptsd dogs we don't count as ESA.

 

[Justmehere]

You all are stating that someone could legally kick me out of Walmart because I have the word "f*ck" on my shirt?

Yes
Here is an article of someone getting kicked out of Golden Corral
From that article:

What Mock learned very quickly is that you can't wear anything you want when you're on private property.

Someone getting kicked off a plane

I have been a supervisor at a place of public accomodation, where we allowed service dogs, but we were required to ask people to change shirts if there is profane language, because of the children that could be around.

 

[Gs172003]

Yes
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And as I stated earlier we are not required to allow people in the zoo wearing anything that is profane for that very reason. It's a family facility.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I have been a supervisor at a place of public accomodation, where we allowed service dogs, but we were required to ask people to change shirts if there is profane language, because of the children that could be around.

Again, that's at work. I have made it clear that I would not put that patch on him at work and would dress him as professional as possible.

Again, this patch is removeabe and just like the mobility cape/make shift vest we have that says "Do not dare touch" on his back, we use that in places such as Walmart and Walgreens where we have had very big issues with the public. In other places we wear his other vest. This patch will be removed in places that more professional dress is needed. And if an access issue occurs I can just remove the patch and place it in my bag. Simple.

This is a patch that I am thinking about getting. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't buy it. I never advised that anyone else should buy that patch. I only advised I wanted to buy it and why. That's all.

ETA; With that said, I'm out of this convo. I am not out of the thread as the thead is not about this patch. But I am out of this convo about this patch.

 

[Justmehere]

@lostforgottensoul - I’d like to point out that no one here has actually told you to not buy the patch. Even if folks did, you don’t have to listen to anyone here. I have simply pointed out possible consequences that may come with its use if you do purchase it. The choice really is yours to make. I fully support your right and responsibility to choose whatever works best for you. Really. I hope you do what is most effective for you in reaching your goals.

From years of SD use... I personally dress up more in professional attire when using my service dog, even to Target, because the access issues drop dramatically. It’s really pretty surprising how much they go down.

Service dog plus human in slacks vs service dog plus human in yoga pants.... let’s just say that I’m now a huge fan of super comfy slacks. Makes my life so much easier when it comes to access for my SD. Should it matter that much? No. But I can’t change all of humankind and human nature. Humans judge appearance, and way we dress sends a message. I still do love to hike and run and have fun in jeans and yoga pants though... and I do that often too...

But no matter what I wear, the more professional I act, the more professionalism I tend to get back.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I agree with professinal dress for service dogs. Even in cold climates there are ways to dress your dog that is warm but professional and have spoken out about Trained and Maintained: A local service dog program that trains standard poodles that dresses them in ridiculous looking full body pajama with fully gitter vests (in hot Orlando).

But, that said

But no matter what I wear, the more professional I act, the more professionalism I tend to get back.

This has not been my experience sadly. I mean, when a woman is on hands a knees crawling towards us while Chopper is tasking in line at Walmart and then I am screamed at me stating she didn't see the patch on his vest, there's an issue. I may not get the one that says "f*cking" on it as I believe the seller makes the same patch that just says "don't you dare touch". But when we've used the mobility cape/make shift vest that has "Don't you dare touch" written big on his back we had completely different experiences. I wanted that on our new vest with the mobility buckle as the other one has 2 buckles and the "forever vest" is much easier to use. And then it's removeable to be more professional when needed.

Maybe different areas act differently but that just has not been our experience the year and 3 months we've been training.

 

[Justmehere]

No, it’s not that different in other places.

You know what I do when things like that has happened to me? I turn and walk away. I do not lose my professionalism. I do not give people other reasons to kick me out. Do I want to tell them keep your f*cking hands off? You betcha.

If needed, I indicate for them to “please stop, or I will not hesitate in contacting security/the police.” But I do not match their behavior. I do not swear back at them. I do not engage in a verbal argument. I do not give them any legit reasons to deny access.

I have had someone pull over a bus packed with people and stop in the middle of the street to throw stuff at me and my dog. I’ve had people whistle and crawl and grab her leash. I get it. It’s humilating. I was quite clear that it was to never happen again or I’d call the police, but didn’t lose my professionalism. Because it doesn’t improve the situation at all, it only gives them reasons to not listen, and no matter what the other person does, it does lead to better outcomes for me if I remain professional.

It’s like the saying goes, “don’t get into an argument with the pig, because you get dirty and the pig likes it.”

My dog isn’t super dressed up professionally or not. She looks like a very sterotypical SD. I used to have a “stop do not touch” 4 inch wide leash. Made no difference. Service dogs are not required to have any vest at all and most everyone ignores anything I put on her. Changing what she wears hasn’t changed much for me. Changing me? Has made all the difference. I am guessing you carry yourself differently with “do not dare touch.” Yeah maybe it’s partly people reading the dog, but it’s also partly people reading *you.* And for what it’s worth, I think that’s a fine to put a “do not dare touch” patch to put on the dog. It’s not vulgar and it’s clear.

 

[Freida]

One trick I've been using lately that seems to help is when someone approaches SD I put my hand on the outside of his face and turn him towards me...then say "I'm sorry he can't have loves because he is working." It's been surprisingly effective and I'm not sure why. But I think it is because I am physically directing him back to me...?? Or maybe because they can't make eye contact any longer?

 

[Justmehere]

have spoken out about Trained and Maintained:

Short of safety issues or clearly offensive behavior where children might be around, I really don’t much care how other people dress their service dogs. Life is just too damn short and too hard for me to care that much. (Hot gear in hot weather without precautions is another matter separate from a fun outfit.)

That particular agency actually understands some really important things about SDs and appears to do some good in the world, and helps people for free...

I don’t dress up my dog personally, as it is not a hobby of mine, but I have a friend who is a veteran and on some days, the only thing that gets my friend out the door and keeps them from offing themselves is the fun vest they put on their dog and being able to see people smile about the vest and the dog as they navigate public spaces. There is so much judgement that can come, that sometimes, leaning into a little silliness and friendliness can actually help.

I really don’t see the harm in glitter, or for veterans who use flags or whatever - not to such a degree that it needs to become a publically adversarial issue between people trying to navigate the service dog life the best they know how.

No one is going to kick them out of Walmart due to a fun outfit. Plus, those service dog owners are able to weigh out the pros and cons of dressing their dogs the way they do themselves.

I know of children and adults who use a variety of vests and gear on the dog. If the dog and the person are well behaved and respectful, glitter and silliness won’t harm. It’s like sticking skateboard stickers on a wheelchair... like hey, that’s cool. Whatever.

There is a point at which it becomes to each their own. Service dogs owners don’t want want others in the public telling them what to do - and yet so quickly judge other service dog users for matters that are not offensive or safety related.

 

[Sideways]

I'm sorry he can't have loves because he is working." It's been surprisingly effective and I'm not sure why.

Yup. My go-to is my hand down in front of my dog’s nose, and saying to the person “Sorry, he’s working”. And like @Justmehere hit on, I think the success of that simple statement and gesture comes largely from the way I say it, and the body language going on.

There’s always going to be people that...grrr. I’ve had 3 occasions now where someone has come up and literally just picked my dog up to give him a cuddle, vest and all.

I chat with people on days where I’m up for it - I try and be friendly if I have it in me because it helps with educating the public about service animals and helping them understand how it works. A lot of people confess that they see a cute dog and that’s it - the jacket? The fact he’s walking beside me through a food store? People often tell me they see cute dog and simply react by wanting to say hello. The jacket doesn’t even register, let alone having them stop to read what it says!

People who are just plain inappropriate can be infuriating. I was getting a coffee recently and the barrista yelled out “Doggo!” and next thing I know there’s this huge dog biscuit flying towards me and my dog.

It would probably have felt good in the moment to give her a colourful piece of my mind. But by keeping my cool and simply telling her “Sorry, he’s working” as I handed back the biscuit? Means she doesn’t have a chip on her shoulder about rude service dog owners and I get to go back to the cafe without it being tense!

 

[littleoc]

Yup. My go-to is my hand down in front of my dog’s nose, and saying to the person “Sorry, he’s...

That's even one of the benefits of a service dog -- people often aren't aggressive when they see a cute dog. They become friendlier and even curious, which clashes with tense emotions. Sometimes people are awful anyway, but the dog's presence alone is helpful (and knowing they'll step up if you need it)