Complete numbness

[frogthroat]

I've been in therapy for 4 months now and while I would say that I'm doing better I still feel there something deeply wrong but I can't quite place my finger on it. My T suggested anti-depressants last session but don't feel depressed. I actually don't feel anything at all. While I understand that this a self-defense mechanism to some degree my understanding is that most people live their daily lives without letting emotions or circumstances interfere with things. T told me that I'm holding onto things for whatever reason and I need to try to figure out why. It's been a conviction of mine to not to think about the past since then. Whenever the past or feelings of distress start to surface I tell myself it's all meaningless now and it goes away. The problem is now I can't sleep, I'm not eating, and I'm extremely impatient with people. I think I was gentler outwardly when I was crying all the time. Now nothing moves me and everything is so irritating. I find myself being very perturbed by other people's emotions and even their presence. Is this depression? I can't tell. I'm not sad. I just don't care about interacting like I should be. I don't really like coming out of my apartment again but I make myself. It just seems like nothing is very important to me and having to talk makes me grumpy.

 

[EveHarrington]

Why don’t you stop pushing your feelings away? That’s the problem. You’re not processing feelings, you’re shoving them away. Your system is reacting by shutting down and things are coming out sideways.

Process, don’t stuff!

Stuffing is bad!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I numbed it away for 10 years so much that I forced myself to forget. I forgot horrors most only hear in fiction horror stories as late as 19 yrs old. Not long after I numbed so much that I had no memory of it just a year or so later. But, 10 yrs later it forced itself out by the way of severe irritation. Snapping at the smallest of things. Explosions. Horrid bloody nightmares so vivid that I'd make 3am calls to ensure the people were still alive. So vivid that I couldn't tell if it were real or not after waking up. I had walled myself off from people as everyone terrified me but I had no idea why. I couldn't remember why. Reaching out but pushing away at the same time. Thinking I was the biggest freak. Why was I like this? Nothing bad happened. Why was I so terrified of people? I was forced into therapy as explosions got so bad. "Go or get out". I went to therapy weekly for a year before letting the cat out of the bag that something happened. I didn't know what yet as memories were still super fragmented but something big and horrible happened.

All of that is the result of stuffing the emotions. I spent years and years digging all of the horrors out slowly. You must process. Stuffing will get you stuck. Maybe behind. But certianly not foward. It's not meaningless now. It has a meaning. There is a reason it's there. You must feel those emotions. You must allow yourself to feel them to move through it and process it. It's a slow and steady process and I still go numb. But understanding it has meaning and is there for a reason is the first step. Calling it meaningless is called denial and denial gets you stuck.

 

[frogthroat]

Calling it meaningless is called denial and denial gets you stuck.

I guess I don't understand what the difference between processing and stuffing is. I was told the things that happened to me are in the past and I shouldn't let it affect me now. This is true. I choose how I want to be. That's where I'm misunderstanding my therapist too. I don't understand what processing your emotions even is. If it's not suppose to bother me now then don't think about it when it comes up right? Don't obsess over it. It seems logical for me to simply not give it the floor at all. I did EMDR to put memories and distressing feelings away for later. I'm not supposed to talk about individual occurrence anymore. It's just clumped into "I was really abused."
I guess I don't understand the concept of why it has meaning when it's not suppose to. If I tell myself it doesn't mean anything then I'm stuffing it down. If I put it away for later that's ok? My T told me that things that people do to you don't define you as a person and that I have to let that go. I thought I was doing the right thing. All in all, it doesn't matter if I was really abused or not. Now I'm an adult and other people go through things too. Aren't I just continuing to be a victim by even thinking about it?

 

[EveHarrington]

Processing means you work through your emotions. Stuffing means you just shove them away. These are two very different things.

It sounds like you did non-processing EMDR where your therapist just wanted to give you some relief from your thoughts and feelings.

Now is the time where you need to learn as many positive coping skills as you can in order to deal with your emotions.

Stuffing is a maladaptive coping skill. Stuffing is not good.

Once you learn enough coping skills, you can then progress to processing your trauma. It sounds like this is a ways away though.

You’re minimizing your suffering by comparing yourself to others.

You cannot heal ptsd by just shoving everything aside. It doesn’t work that way. Denial will get you nowhere.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I guess I don't understand what the difference between processing and stuffing is.

Processing is moving through feelings and memories. Allowing yourself to feel them again. To name them. Why they are there. Stuffing is just stuffing the emotions down so you don't feel them. Numbing it away. No big deal. Need to move on. And so forth. You never feel those emotions. You just stuff them deep down so.you don't feel them. You have to feel them to process them.

I was told the things that happened to me are in the past and I shouldn't let it affect me now. This is true. I choose how I want to be.

It's how you get there. Do you stuff and carry on or do you process what happened, feel those emotions again, give them a voice, and move past it that way?

It seems logical for me to simply not give it the floor at all.

Why does that seem logical? They are your emotions after all. They don't get the floor? That's stuffing.

I'm not supposed to talk about individual occurrence anymore. It's just clumped into "I was really abused."

Why aren't you supposed to talk about the indiviual occurences? They were all seperate things that happened, right? They didn't all happen in a mass did they? So, it's more logical to me to talk about the indiviudal things. Give them as much floor as they need to process past it. Not giving them the floor is what's called stuffing and gets you no where fast.

I guess I don't understand the concept of why it has meaning when it's not suppose to.

Again, why is it not suppose to?

I have to let that go

You don't just let trauma go. It doesn't work that way. Hell, if it did none of us would be here! You must slow and steady process through it.

Aren't I just continuing to be a victim by even thinking about it?

Nope. And what's the issue with being a victim anyway? Something traumatic happened to us thus we are a victim of crime or of really bad shit happening to us. Fact.

 

[somerandomguy]

@frogthroat ... My apologies. I don't know how to put this gently so I'm afraid I'm going to have to be blunt. I just want to suggest that maybe you're stuffing instead of processing because you're constantly interacting with your abuser.

 

[MyWillow]

Oh yeah professional stuffer here. Totally relate to your first post @frogthroat

I thought what I was doing was what you’re supposed to do to “get over it”. It’s been very messy the last 18 months in T. Sometimes I hate her for it and sometimes I’m grateful. Sometimes I’m numb and sometimes I’m just angry at everything and everyone.

“Containing” and “stuffing” are two different things. Right now I can’t process because my nervous system has gone a bit nuts and I’m just trying not to dissociate through T sessions. Containment is taking all those crappy nightmares and flashbacks and putting them in the treasure chest floating on the clouds above. To deal with when I’m ready. Stuffing is just ignoring. Suppressing. Not dealing with ever. I sound so wise when I write this out but I’ve been a right mess so I get that you are struggling and that’s ok too.

Oh and going no contact with my family is helping.

 

[frogthroat]

Containment is taking all those crappy nightmares and flashbacks and putting them in the treasure chest floating on the clouds above. To deal with when I’m ready.

I guess that's something I have an issue with. I've been doing that too except it's on a mountain in a box. In contrast to the statements about the past being the past and choosing my own destiny it just seems childish to me. Just tell me evil happens to everyone. I know this already. If it's not supposed to bother me then why have me do this kindergarten bs with putting feelings in a box? I feel the same way about wearing a rubber and on my wrist and snapping it whenever I have negative thoughts.
First off, I have way too much pride to be snapping myself with a rubber band in public like a psych patient all day. That's a problem too. I would literally be snapping it every ten seconds. With my T I feel like if you expect so much out of me then give me practical tools to learn to cope. Stop giving me things to do that you would do with a nine year old.

And what's the issue with being a victim anyway

That's a something I never want to add to my personal attributes. Who would want to use that as an adjective to describe themselves in any way? Even if I ever have relationships with people again I would never tell anyone I was a victim of a crime. That's why I'm so reserved about having a boyfriend. It will be a cold day in hell before I tell that potential partner I was abused. This is also the issue I have with psych meds and I'm not going to go to someone who went to school for 10 years and tell them I need an anti-depressant when my life is completely comfortable, I'm employed, and I have everything I need.

Why aren't you supposed to talk about the indiviual occurences? They were all seperate things that happened, right?

My T doesn't want me to talk about it right now. The focus is getting me to do things and go out more. I do the tasks she gives me but I'm at a point to where I don't understand the purpose they serve. I can work. I support myself. I can drive. I don't understand the point she's trying to make. Yes, I'm aware I'm the captain of my ship. I'm not sure what being in groups of people more has to do with recovery from trauma at all. I go out into public more but I still have almost zero patience with other people. It's actually worse than normal this week.

You cannot heal ptsd by just shoving everything aside. It doesn’t work that way. Denial will get you nowhere.

I know that. That's why I'm in therapy but constantly being told that the past is in the past and I choose what I want frustrates me. I'm a grown woman who takes care of herself. I know all of this so T needs to teach coping skills if she's going to tell me that all the time. I need things that are practical not putting feelings in a box or floating on a cloud, not snapping myself with rubber bands, and not giving in and numbing myself more with meds. I need practical solutions for extreme, long term trauma. I guess that's my issue. Now I know what to discuss with her next session though. I'm going to tell her if she expects me not to let this bother me and that I choose my destiny then stop giving me flowery crap and give me practical solutions. If she doesn't want me to be a victim then why would she suggest things that are incredibly stupid and humiliating like that and keep me in a childlike state? This is an issue with her.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

First off, I have way too much pride to be snapping myself with a rubber band in public like a psych patient all day.

It's better then cutting yourself in public all day. My weapon of choice at work was a thumb tack on my wrist under my desk at work. It's better to be seen snapping a rubber band then to hide and actually hurt myself. In my opinion anyway. And you can make that "rubber band" almost anything fasionable. As long as it has the snapping feature.

Pride can be a bad thing as well. Too much pride to snap a rubber band but not too much pride to not self injure? If you can not self injure then by all means have that pride. If you cannot, then is that pride really serving you?

If it's not supposed to bother me then why have me do this kindergarten bs with putting feelings in a box?

What is this "it's not suppose to bother me" stuff? You still have not answered that. It's trauma. Of course it's going to bother you. And having great imagination is a huge part of mindfullness. Being able to imagine a box at a mountian top. Being able to imagine yourself floating on your back on water. Being able to imagine a safe space. It's all imagination and it's all needed. Being able to compartmentalize isn't easy for most. It's easy for me because I had to do it as part of my trauma. Simular to how first responders do. They see someone with a decapitated head or someone that has all of their guts hanging out of their body but is still alive. They compartmentalize to get the job done and then deal with it later. I had to kill animals and watch someone get their head cut off but I had to keep my head, do what I was told, survive. I compartmentalize in order to work. All of this stuff I'm dealing with is put away in a box in my head and completely numbed off in order to do my job.

But most are not good at compartmentalizing. So being able to visualize a box on a mountian is needed. I've personally never had to do that and I compartmentalize to a fault. It hurts me due to how well I compartmentalize and how much I compartmentalize. I struggle most times to pull it all out in therapy. I'm numbed off in therapy and my therapist has to pull it out for me. Or help me to pull it out. But most struggle with it. Thus you have a box in on moutian, at the bottom of the ocean, in a cabnet at the therapist's office or whatever. It's needed in order to function in everyday life but you need to access it for therapy. Visualizations is not a bad thing at all.

That's a something I never want to add to my personal attributes. Who would want to use that as an adjective to describe themselves in any way? Even if I ever have relationships with people again I would never tell anyone I was a victim of a crime.

Why? It's true. I was a victim of many crimes. Fact. I think people think way too deep about the word victim. Survivor, victim, it's all semantics. Not wanting to tell people is your choice and you don't have to. But denying that you were a victim of a crime is denial.

I need an anti-depressant when my life is completely comfortable, I'm employed, and I have everything I need.

What does having a "comfortable life" and "having everything you need" have to do with needing any psych med? I take Seriquel XR and Xanax and it's due to those meds that I can work and function as much as I do. Take those away and I destablize very quickly.

You are making judgements where there shouldn't be judgements.

I'm not sure what being in groups of people more has to do with recovery from trauma at all.

I work but I am also majorly isolated. Other then work I stay in my house in the pitch black dark. And at work I isolate. I don't go out with the smokers to smoke my nicotine vaporizer. I don't talk to co-workers. I stay isolated in my safe little cacoon. And because of that I have no friends, no aquintances, and so when my car finally dies for good I will be stuck. I know no one. Isolation is real even for those that work and it's not good at all. People need other people. We were not made to live fully isolated. Think of the movie Cast Away and the volleyball "Wilson". That is what happens when the human mind is alone. Its a movie but so much truth in just that. I have full conversations with myself in my head. Full on 2, 3, or 4 person conversations back and forth. It goes againgst our nature to be alone. So, being isolated is not a good thing at all. My therapist is also focused on me becoming less isolated. And with a service dog, I am very slowly doing more things. Though still super isolated, I am slowly doing more. And so there is a very good reason she's having you go out more.

That's why I'm in therapy but constantly being told that the past is in the past and I choose what I want frustrates me

Have you told her that?

I need practical solutions for extreme, long term trauma

As stated above, those are practical and reasons for each.

that and keep me in a childlike state?

Is distorted thinking. It doesn't keep you in a childlike state. Maybe do some research on this stuff? A lot of it is part of DBT. Both snap with a rubber band and a box on a moutian/bottom of ocean/at your therapist's/etc and other imagry such as an imagined safe space is all part of DBT. DBT is a therapy that helps you regulate emotions and tolerate distress. It is a therapy. It's also part of mindfullness which is super useful therapy for PTSD.

To me, you sound very angry. And that and your concerns should be brought to therapy. But it would be worth researching this stuff before tossing it aside and calling it childish. Psych meds as well isn't about numbing it. They are about stablizing you so that you can function better. At least mine are. And I am not ashamed to say I take 200mg Seriquel XR and .5 mg Xanax. I have to tell each of my many doctors and I don't mind at all. Because before the psych meds I was an insane mess! Maybe it would be worth while to look at some of these distorted thoughts and challenge them?

 

[EveHarrington]

So instead of going to your therapist like a big girl and engaging in direct communication, you’re bitching about your therapist and how she’s not helping you, to a group of strangers on the internet. That sounds like a winning plan for moving forward in therapy!

You are being quite judgmental toward yourself and toward other people. Meds only numb you out? Keep believing this if it serves your purpose of resisting treatment and getting better. It’s faaaaar from the truth.

The truth is that until you stop being so treatment resistant, you’re not going to get better. The choice is yours.

 

[Tinyflame]

@frogthroat totally relate, except I learned to redirect or stifle much irritation or impatience with others, too (not so helpful as mostly towards self-recriminations and suicidal ideation, but that's another point).

I think you've had good input and please forgive me if this has been said or isn't helpful, but for myself what's lacking in understanding includes 'how' does one process? I don't think we all have to be the same. I, too, am feeling very numb, and I know that actually indicates I'm in a bad spot, not good. But, you know, stuff has to get done. I was not raised to have the chance to dwell on stuff (and don't want to).

But I think the key is, the effects are coming out sideways. So processing (might?) start with, why is something bothering me atm ? What does it go back to, if at all? And then, to self-admit why it's 'sh*tty', what truths are to be found in it, and I think (ideally) some self-compassion (even miniscule).

Then changing what can be changed, an example would be saying no to a situation, or providing a small amount of self-care (staying home, going away for a day or few hours, avoiding abuse, having a 'right', etc etc).

I was thinking this- where people say they 'want' to cry in therapy or otherwise- I don't. Because I don't 'believe' in it, I don't want to put a witness in that position, I am private, it has passed or it's my problem to solve it, and more.

But mostly, too, or rather the Big part at the core, is that I don't want to relive anything or feel it, and I most certainly do not feel confident to be vulnerable like that. I've seen people cry to manipulate (my cousin's ex did that), to guilt, when falling apart, and when grieving. I don't want anyone to know how I feel, and I'd rather not feel it. And I'd rather no one else be bothered or privy. It's not anger nor pride. It's devastation and vulnerability at the core. I don't cry because it would not stop or overwhelm me. There are no places or people (other than entirely private) where I see it as a good thing. My devastation is my problem, just as is surviving the day, and functioning. At what cost, yes, but what are the options, including for my own self-respect.

Best wishes to you in this struggle.

ETA, I think the problem I've experienced with stuffing is when things are really bad, I find myself un-emotionally making big decisions or knowing they are there to choose that are harmful to myself without even thinking about it, it's like some part of my brain has (entirely without emotion) decided. If emotion and processing occur, I feel, think and remember.