Do narcissist parents have children for supply?

[Suzetig]

@Bkinder youre reading way more into my posts than is there. I’m not trying to trounce anyone nor am I diagnosing over a forum - I’m far from qualified to do so - I disagree with you based on the clinical definition of NPD. You’ve got a view on this based on your experience which helps you make sense of it, that really is fine. How you’ve interpreted my posts is entirely projection on your part.

 

[TruthSeeker]

@Bkinder youre reading way more into my posts than is there. I’m not trying to tro...

I guess I wasn’t expecting a “clinical judgement” from someone on this forum. Those clinical definitions are not so cut and dried, black and white, and are open for interpretation based on a number of factors. They are a guide- it’s not a holy book- DSM5- it’s a clinical guide.

I think my primary focus is just getting to a place of contentment. In the endgame, having been right or wrong about a clinical definition of a label on a forum won’t make a hill of beans difference and wasting what little time I got left in life on the correctness of my definition- or if it meets with your interpretations- or getting corrected by someone here or whether I’m on the same page as you and another person in your interpretation is a waste of that precious time left to me.

When you can climb out from behind definitions and labels and talk experiences and feelings- that would be more helpful to me. Thank you for your knowledge of the label.

Back to thread-narcissists if they are severe enough might very well use their kids to meet their narcissistic supply- kids are easy to manipulate and very vulnerable. Kids want attention and acceptance. My grandson is only 3 and X husband is grooming him already to be just like him-a perfect little man whose not a wimp. The toddler is being ruined. It’s so sad- and I’m unable to help him- without hurting me.

 

[Friday]

When you can climb out from behind definitions and labels and talk experiences and feelings- that would be more helpful to me

I think you may be confusing @Suzetig ’s post with mine, as I did lay out the clinical definition for narcissism... for the very good reason that shared definitions lead to better understanding. Because if one person is defining narcissism loosely as the colloquial “loving yourself” (and therefore anyone being adversely affected by narcissists is f*cking insane, because loving yourself is a good thing), and another is defining it by the clinical definition of NPD, and another is defining it as anyone self centered, and another by their own personal definition (which bears little resemblance to anything anyone else is talking about)... those are 4 entirely different conversations.

Getting on the same page might not be helpful to you, but quite frankly you’re not the only person on this forum.

Getting on the same page with @MyWillow, & asking rather than just assuming what she “really” meant, let me understand what she actually meant. Which was pretty darn cool. The same way Dana, & Shimmerz, & Suzetig, & Joey, & everyone else sharing their experience and understanding is valuable to me. Just because you don’t find value, or dislike part of the conversation, or how it’s worded, doesn’t make that true for everyone. Nor should everyone else alter the way that they’re posting in order to best suit your own preferences.

It’s not our job to figure out which way you like best, and provide you with that. We’re not your therapist.

@Dana1010 posed a really interesting question, with a lot of different moving parts to it. As the OP she has the most control over the direction of the thread, but even she cannot dictate how other people are going to be responding. It’s a diverse crowd here, with diverse experience, opinion, and personality. What she finds valuable and rubbish, what I do, what anyone does is going to vary. Different pieces are going to speak to different people. That’s part of the benefit of peer support; the different perspectives, and clairty of shared experience. Not everything is going to resonate with everyone. That doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

 

[scout86]

is there an advantage to understand them as having insecurity as their main drive, rather than out of control competition?

First, let me say that I totally agree with your description NOW. It's not what I thought at first, though. And the only "advantage" I can see to viewing them as insecure is that it makes them seem less like members of an entirely different species. In the long run, if it's not accurate, it's not helpful.

Narcissism comes in different flavors. My T says my mother was a passive-aggressive narcissist and my brother is "just an aggressive one". There can be different presentations, but there are a lot of similarities. During the last round of "dealing with my brother", I really came to see that, in his version of reality, he really IS always right and it really DOES make him angry when someone else isn't capable of seeing that. What you get from him isn't fear at being dismissed, it's righteous indignation. With my mom, it was different. She had learned to get her way more with a "poor me, I'm a helpless victim" kind of approach, but, at the core, she still believed (I think) that she was the center of the universe.

I'm thinking the majority of these people probably aren't "pure narcissists". You get various amounts of psychopathy mixed in along the way. My brother, for example, rarely lies. My ex-husband seemed to think the truth was what ever he wanted it to be at the time. I used to think he was lying to, somehow, protect himself. According to my T, there are people who lie just because they enjoy telling a "good story". It's all about how telling the story and the attention makes them feel. It has nothing to do with conveying accurate information.

I think, when we think of someone like this as being insecure, it's a way of convincing ourselves we have some sort of chance of relating to them and maybe making a relationship work. And I really think that's a mistake.

Last, but not least, my T says it's quite possible for someone to be excessively self involved without actually being a narcissist. And what makes a narcissist hard to treat is that they, by definition, believe that THEY are ok and everyone else isn't. I can imagine someone like that going to therapy to learn to be a better narcissist, but not to change. Because why would you want to change, when you're already perfect in every way?

 

[Flip flop]

I've heard of molesters having children for the sole purpose of sexually abusing them, as horrifying a...

I could honestly believe that an AXIS-II, Cluster B would do that. I find the idea of an NPD having offspring for the purpose of some kind of perverse self-gratification quite plausible. Thanks for raising the question! I suspect I was conceived for the purpose of serving AXIS-II, Cluster B relatives’ sick needs. Lots of food for thought there.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think you may be confusing @Suzetig ’s post with mine, as I did lay out th...

Point taken.

First, let me say that I totally agree with your description NOW. It's not what I thought at first, tho...

Agree

 

[Sideways]

The openly conflicting definitions of “narcissist” make it an increasingly unhelpful term for me.

Putting that element of the issue aside? There’s (disturbingly) plenty of examples of people who have children with the intention of abusing those children for their own satisfaction. Broadly? Cults that involve a cult-leader reproducing. More specifically, the atrocities coming to light of the Turpin family? Seem to fit that bill.

To me, there are plenty of clear examples of parents who have kids with the very deliberate and calculated intention of inflicting abuse on their children. The underlying pathology pf parents who do that? Seems to be pretty varied.

Nailing down the pathology and motivation of the parents in those circumstances? I can see why some people might find that helpful in their own recovery. Personally, my abuser’s pathology doesn’t change what he did to me, or how awful it was, or the damage it’s done. And it’s what he did to me, not who he was, that I need to heal from.

 

[Margaret Victoria]

But what if they simply didn't give their children any of that attention and energy they need? What if...

I just got a raise at work, and the memory came back to me about my father, who was a truck driver, telling me when I was 21 years old that I would never make more than him. He was the sexual abuser and he was narcissistic. I am now , at 56 yo making more than I ever did, and he’s living homeless in Honduras—running from the Jewish mob!! Sometimes we get to see the karmic results.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The openly conflicting definitions of “narcissist” make it an increasingly unhelpful term for me....

Excellent point

 

[user27357]

I am acutely aware of the religious narcissists i run into, they are possibly the least recognized and most prevalent ones around and they definitely do have children to satisfy their own need for approval

One group in particular follows the leadership of a prophetess that wrote books about the moral superiority and higher calling of her followers, especially the matriarchs of the religions' families. the mothers that read these books are lead to believe that they can achieve a state where only pure thoughts will enter their minds, with anything contrary to those pure thoughts being put there by the devil. When they see these contrary ideas in the actions and statements of their own offspring they will turn on them with a level of hatred and anger that most of us would reserve for killing snakes. if they see actions that are within the confines of the churches teachings they will prance around with the pride of a hen with freshly hatched chicks.

I have watched it, in many many families within this church including my own, until I made a permanent cut years ago.

Aint no narcissist like a religious one, and they do feel like it is their duty to raise more to be hopefully just like them. I think they meet the criteria in spades.

In my family the b**** only got 1 of 4 to follow her down the path of glory, but I have seen entire families alienated by the narcissist mothers this particular cult produces. She was my stepmother and i hate her more than words can express, for the loveless marriage, the selfish acts, the pain she inflicted and the lives she has negatively affected. I hate her like i would hate a person that willfully spreads a disease.

My last words to her where " I feel sorry for you". Dont get going on foregiveness, it isn't in me and i see no reason to forgive someone that no longer exists in my world. I do see a need to be able to spot a religious narcissist and i cling to that ability.

again, as always, if there is a hell it waits for them, not us

 

[hithere]

But what if they simply didn't give their children any of that attention and energy they need? What if...

i watched my mother do this... I always saw it, always knew it.. this is actually hard to respond to--so just leaving this here and stepping away.

 

[Hojay]

I’m very late to this and possibly nobody is still following this thread. Nonetheless, this discussion is wildly fascinating. In the schooling I received the terms “insecurity” or its opposite “excessive self love,” did not exist in the context of NPD. Rather, NPD is often marked by a lack of a consistent sense of self. It’s been described as a sense of profound inner hollowness and lack of object constancy, all of which demand compensation in terms of keeping whatever (often false) sense of self one has developed in tact. It’s not rare for NPD to run cyclical with depression. When the false sense of self receives a blow, a world crumbles. Though it may look like grandiosity and excessive self love from the outside, internally, the battle is much like a deflective coping mechanism many depressive personalities develop over time.

Some might say this is a construct to mask “insecurity.” I’d say it’s much more complex than that. Insecurity presupposes there is a self to cherish and protect. In NPD, there is none, therefore there is nothing to either feel insecure about or “love excessively.” Whatever displays as NPD is compensation for this lack, be it lack of confidence, self love, true confidence, or self respect. And just in basic terms, being a hollow shell is pretty darn anxiety provoking, hence the great sense of offense when whatever self construct is threatened.