Intellect like a sword and shield

[PreciousChild]

I'm still trying to find the words to describe where I am in terms of my relationship to my highly attuned intellect. My IQ is nothing exceptional, but being intellectual is the way I've escaped/coped/dissociated from my feelings. It's really hard to see the problems with this approach because when your goal is to "figure things out", shining a light on everything, you feel completely justified in what you're doing because you're being "logical".

My intellect has probably saved my life. Although I see how it is one-sided, being able to study ideas, apply them, and see patterns allowed me to rise above the chaos that my childhood left in me. But I see how it is an impediment to progress now too. I noticed that when I get triggered and stressed, my intellect goes into overdrive. Clearly, it's a mechanism to survive, be self-protective, and in control. But I think that so long as I am focused on the machinations of the mind, I avoid other things. If I'm shedding a light on everything, I'm only seeing the lit parts, if that makes sense.

Very often, I feel that if something is logical, then enough said. In my recent break-up with my ex bf, I realized that I was analyzing his behaviors and how they could be corrected with therapy. He was officially diagnosed with ptsd several years ago, but he chose not to get therapy. I understand that therapy is a good idea, but the situation really brought to the forefront my strong impulse to figure things out and fix things. It's almost like here's the tool that's saved me before, and now I'm going to hammer away again. But what's the main goal? I feel like I roll right over feelings, empathy, connection to others.

I was depersonalized in college. I was like a detached head hovering over a body with feelings that I had no immediate access to. I've come a long way from that. I feel my feelings, but I still have dissociated parts and triggers. I'm hoping someone out there can relate and want to share with me their thoughts.

 

[Abstract]

I wouldn't call myself intellectual and unfortunately dissociated my way through a lot of school in a way that wasn't helpful rather than in a way that was. I however realised that intellectualising or analysing is a huge huge part of the way I coped and still cope. I think I am much more balanced these days and make a concerted effort to keep engaging with my emotions and dealing with them.

In the past I would almost view myself as a fly pinned to a board and think of what was happening and what needed to be done. No compassion, no emotional engagement with me or the experience (or an attempt to have none). In fact, at one point I wouldn't "know" I felt or thought something. It wouldn't occur to me. I would start from the outside thinking what the logical or objective reality was and making it mine. One reason CBT didn't work for me.
I definitely used researching, reading etc obsessively as a way of coping. I realised this eventually. Definitely saved my life. Can't regret it as it was the only thing holding me together at one point and it did allow me to achieve a lot but only to a point. And I am realising with a fair amount of collateral damage. Therapising oneself is a bit different to a compassionate professional truly considering the impact of removing a and b without first looking at c and d. More recently I have found myself unable to concentrate and do the usual reading and obsessive analysing in the same way. It feels like a loss and very confusing. Not sure what is going on. Still very attached to always looking at the logical perspective whilst looking at the emotional side of things though.

I only really started getting anywhere in therapy and healing when I started dealing with emotions and allowing myself to acknowledge feel and realise them regardless of logic or theory. I had an awful lot of therapy that did almost nothing., partly because of this. Almost nothing helpful anyway.

I relate to the idea that logic can be another way of distancing/dissociating ourselves from our selves or feelings.
Intellectualization - Wikipedia
This thread of maddog was quite good I think.
What Does "processing Trauma" Really Mean?

How good are you at understanding your emotions? Are you familiar with DBT Wise Mind?

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks @Abstract. Yes, I feel that I understand my emotions, for the most part. But even then, I can sometimes be a little too focused on the "understanding" it rather than the feeling it. I have also meditated in the past and I'm sure it's helped me immeasurably. But I remember being at a meditation retreat center once and when we talked about our experiences, I could tell that I was making everyone uncomfortable over how much analysis I was giving of it. You take something that is supposed to quiet the mind, and it inspires me to analyze it to death.

The wiki on intellectualization is good. That's me. But I also think there's an element of urgency involved in my intellectualism because it was my way of protecting myself from a dad whose narcissism involved his being brilliant all the time, and us kids being idiots. My intellect was like a shield and a weapon to fight back.

I am improving over time, so maybe it's just a matter of letting the healing doing it's thing. i guess I'm stinging a little because I can see how I used my powers of insight and intellect to "figure out" my boyfriend, whether he wanted it or not. It's hard to reign in because when I saw how his reactions fit the pattern of ptsd, I thought he would naturally want to know and want to free himself from them. So I kept trying to share my knowledge. But I was ignoring all sorts of boundaries and emotional triggers.

 

[Friday]

I’m the exact opposite in many ways. My life has taught me that being in ripping good physical shape, and forging life-depending-bonds / the strength of the Wolf is the Pack/ with others is “the” way to be. That’s whats right. What’s necessary. Strength in action & adaptation, the synergistic effect in partnership.

Which means that when I’m sick, injured, weak, or isolated? I am about to be seeeeeeeeriously f*cked up.

Meanwhile, the time for thinking? Is Peace. It’s a luxury, and an indulgence, and it says that all is well with the world :happy:

Not that I’m prone to extremes of black&white thinking at all <cough, hacking cough, beg pardon, cough> But the many of the instincts I have to fight the hardest are the polarizing of those 2 things. Believing I can only have one or the other, and acting as if they’re mutually exclusive.

:banghead:

It ain’t true.

And when I take a brutally honest look at my life? The best times during it, I was achieving a balance & incorporation of both. Oftentimes purely by accident. Like when my work was physical, my play was intellectual, & vice versa. Other times, very much by design; mens sana in copore sano. A healthy mind, in a healthy body.

One of the biggest flashing neon red signs that I am either symptomatic as f*ck, or about to be? Compartmentalizating my life into the purely physical, or subsuming -near drowning- myself in the intellectual. Taking on the world, or hiding from it.

Vexing.

It is incrediably hard to break out of either, and to start incorporating elements of each into each other.

Like “Take 257! Action! -Cut!- Take 258! Action!”

Aaaaaargh. Any studio in their right mind woulda canned this shitsgow production.... Nope. Quit prevaricating. Try again. And again. Dammit. Try again.

It’s the only way I know how... not avoiding either, but encouraging both. Using each to temper the other. To bring me forward, and present, I need both elements in my life. Thought & deed.

 

[Abstract]

Hi @PreciousChild
I understand what you mean. Didn't have that father dynamic as mine specialised in mixed messages. Be perfect better, then any time I did anything, thought anything was attacked. Think thats why checked out instead. Maybe you actually need to look clever too (rather than it just being a way to try to contain things) because of your father. ? Where do you get your sense of value from now?

I suspect intellectualising or obsessive analysing is always an attempt to deal with anxiety in some way or other. I suppose it can also be an obsessive trait in general. As in OCD or Autistic Spectrum.

I think your ex situation is probably composed of 2 different things at a guess. The analysing. And maybe issues with boundaries. Would you say that is possible? Were you aware at the time of caretaking behaviours and what that means? Were you also a fixer in your childhood?

Wise Mind

 

[MyWillow]

I’m so left brained it’s not funny. I can intellectualise my way out of anything. Until I can’t. I’m a straight A kinda student. Multi-tasking perfectionist. My psydoc is really skilled at getting me to feel a little but not so much that I dissociate. However I can feel myself rapid fire change subjects sometimes in a subconscious attempt to shut it down. She’s cool with that and just takes it as a sign that I need a break. So yeah, I can relate for sure.

 

[shimmerz]

I have been doing a bunch of work on body shit. Feldenkrais to be exact. The idea was to allow my right brain to actually take over sometimes because I lean so heavily towards left brained activity .... arrrghhh. Anyway.

While I was really starting to get into the body work it occurred to me (and I checked this with my T), that healthy people actually focus on how their body feels. Like a lot. Like more in one day than I think I have in my lifetime. People connect to their body all.the.time.

Because really, if I am not attached to my body what else is there to do besides intellectualize. Christ, I even make shit up so I can figure it out! And I have to say it is really handy having PTSD when I am so left brained because it gives me shit to think about all.the.time. Can you say vortex? I was sucked in big time. Until I chose to cut it the shit out.

So now.... I literally force myself to focus on something my body is doing. A lot. Annoying as all get out. My T says that focusing on the body is truly the only way out of left brain super duper hyper dominance.

No idea if that helps at all.

 

[MyWillow]

Interesting @shimmerz I can totally relate. Trauma sensitive yoga made me want to run, throw up or dissociate. I have persisted though. I still don’t love it but I hate it less and it does help.

 

[PreciousChild]

I’m so left brained it’s not funny. I can intellectualise my way out of anything. Until I can’t. I’m a straight A kinda student. Multi-tasking perfectionist. My psydoc is really skilled at getting me to feel a little but not so much that I dissociate. However I can feel myself rapid fire change subjects sometimes in a subconscious attempt to shut it down. She’s cool with that and just takes it as a sign that I need a break. So yeah, I can relate for sure.

An understanding therapist helps a lot. I once had a young therapist who had no idea how to address the intellectual edifices I was building during therapy.

I’m the exact opposite in many ways. My life has taught me that being in ripping good physical shape, and forging life-depending-bonds / the strength of the Wolf is the Pack/ with others is “the” way to be. That’s whats right. What’s necessary. Strength in action & adaptation, the synergistic effect in partnership.

Which means that when I’m sick, injured, weak, or isolated? I am about to be seeeeeeeeriously f*cked up.

Meanwhile, the time for thinking? Is Peace. It’s a luxury, and an indulgence, and it says that all is well with the world :happy:

Not that I’m prone to extremes of black&white thinking at all <cough, hacking cough, beg pardon, cough> But the many of the instincts I have to fight the hardest are the polarizing of those 2 things. Believing I can only have one or the other, and acting as if they’re mutually exclusive.

:banghead:

It ain’t true.

And when I take a brutally honest look at my life? The best times during it, I was achieving a balance & incorporation of both. Oftentimes purely by accident. Like when my work was physical, my play was intellectual, & vice versa. Other times, very much by design; mens sana in copore sano. A healthy mind, in a healthy body.

One of the biggest flashing neon red signs that I am either symptomatic as f*ck, or about to be? Compartmentalizating my life into the purely physical, or subsuming -near drowning- myself in the intellectual. Taking on the world, or hiding from it.

Vexing.

It is incrediably hard to break out of either, and to start incorporating elements of each into each other.

Like “Take 257! Action! -Cut!- Take 258! Action!”

Aaaaaargh. Any studio in their right mind woulda canned this shitsgow production.... Nope. Quit prevaricating. Try again. And again. Dammit. Try again.

It’s the only way I know how... not avoiding either, but encouraging both. Using each to temper the other. To bring me forward, and present, I need both elements in my life. Thought & deed.

@Friday, thanks for your perspective. Yeah, your thing does sound opposite from mine in some ways. I was noticing that one thing I am good at is going at something alone, which I think some of my "pack" colleagues find strange in both good ways and bad. I exercise and do yoga, which I think has been part of my healing process. I feel embodied for the most part. But the intellectualism is still there. I don't think I've had the experience of the duality that you talk about - I think the left-side was always just way too dominant. Sounds like you've done a lot to integrate the two sides.

Hi @PreciousChild
I understand what you mean. Didn't have that father dynamic as mine specialised in mixed messages. Be perfect better, then any time I did anything, thought anything was attacked. Think thats why checked out instead. Maybe you actually need to look clever too (rather than it just being a way to try to contain things) because of your father. ? Where do you get your sense of value from now?

I suspect intellectualising or obsessive analysing is always an attempt to deal with anxiety in some way or other. I suppose it can also be an obsessive trait in general. As in OCD or Autistic Spectrum.

I think your ex situation is probably composed of 2 different things at a guess. The analysing. And maybe issues with boundaries. Would you say that is possible? Were you aware at the time of caretaking behaviours and what that means? Were you also a fixer in your childhood?

Wise Mind

I think you're right on @Abstract. Yes, with the father and yes needed to be smart. I chose a profession that kind of puts me in a position to be using my left brain a lot, which I sometimes feel adds to the fuel. I can't spend any stretch of time shutting that side off. At the same time, there's a lot of rewarding aspects about my job as well. I also derive value from being a mom, being a good friend, and let me try to think what else.

I do find my left side going into overdrive when a problem happens or I'm triggered and a million thoughts strategizing, justifying, rationalizing, fixing, etc. goes through my mind. I always focus on the merits of the thoughts in moving forward with a solution, but maybe instead, I should be looking at the anxiety underneath.

I definitely think there were boundary issues as well with my ex bf. Probably not quite as bad as it sounds (since I can sometimes catastrophize and take blame, I may be making it sound worse than it was). Recently, I've really embraced the codependency label, and there's been a thread in the "Supporter" section which I posted on a lot. I've made a lot of connections between the relationship and my codependent behaviors and thoughts, which boundaries play a factor in, for sure. Focusing on my own needs have been helpful to address that.

I have been doing a bunch of work on body shit. Feldenkrais to be exact. The idea was to allow my right brain to actually take over sometimes because I lean so heavily towards left brained activity .... arrrghhh. Anyway.

While I was really starting to get into the body work it occurred to me (and I checked this with my T), that healthy people actually focus on how their body feels. Like a lot. Like more in one day than I think I have in my lifetime. People connect to their body all.the.time.

Because really, if I am not attached to my body what else is there to do besides intellectualize. Christ, I even make shit up so I can figure it out! And I have to say it is really handy having PTSD when I am so left brained because it gives me shit to think about all.the.time. Can you say vortex? I was sucked in big time. Until I chose to cut it the shit out.

So now.... I literally force myself to focus on something my body is doing. A lot. Annoying as all get out. My T says that focusing on the body is truly the only way out of left brain super duper hyper dominance.

No idea if that helps at all.

Gosh, I need to think about this. I will be looking up "Feldenkrais". Hmmmmm. How would I know how a "healthy" person connects to their bodies? Why didn't anyone tell me to check in all the time??? hahaha. You've made some excellent but simple suggestions that helped me a lot before, @shimmerz, so I feel optimistic about this suggestion as well. Thanks.

 

[shimmerz]

Why didn't anyone tell me to check in all the time???

I have asked myself this over and over again. It's a good question and one that I think should have been addressed by my professionals way back in the day when I first started healing.

There are Feldenkrais videos on youtube. They have been a tremendous help for me in embodiment. Something I was never able to address before. Other body work modalities were too triggering for me. They would send me into deep space 9 almost immediately. These exercises are deceptively simple but ever so effective for me.

 

[Maroon731]

I can absolutely relate to this. It is a newly discovered problem - lol. All my life I have always wondered how to integrate mind and body. And kinda knew I thought too much, but, figured so did lots of other people. I can power thru anything and cut off all emotion and will it or think it with my head. And I have been lucky. No emotional reservoir gained, but, lots of analysis to think on.
I completely overthink. Am in a "thinking" type job where I switch gears often. All this felt good. Until Therapy. I was just telling my therapist how my head feels separate from my body. And how I have trained to push all pleasure or really most any emotion out of my mind. In fact I told her to F-off for showing me that my body has emotion (all in jest, well sort of).

One of the hardest things for me to realize is that "normal" people don't deal with these issues. (wait/what?).

We worked thru an issue last week where I had to trust my "gut" and not overthink. Very difficult to do this on my own without someone else validating. Or googling every pro and con. I most definitely live my life in my head with logic, and always with a plan B ready to go.

I also have a hard time sticking to boundaries when you know something that would help someone. And if they don't want to hear it, but, I know they should. Sorry about your bf.
Sometimes I try to talk myself into things that logically make sense but are very triggering. For instance a Yoga class is very triggering for me - but I would intellectualize why I need to do it. And so I would talk about Yoga and identify with Yoga in my mind, but, rarely go and if I did go I would freak out the whole time. A total disconnect. This is an example, of trying to make my emotions feel the way my brain says they should feel - doesn't always work and is frustrating when I do it to myself. And probably so when I do this to others.

I don't know that I am a perfectionist. My mother is a perfectionist and I learned long ago there is no competing with her in the "domestic/home" areas of life. So I chose business. My step-mom sounds like your father. And she lived in the house of my childhood abuse. I do think some of the intellect conversations stems from this, she was very intellectual and this was my only way to survive in a household of beautiful and vain and narcissistic people, that were not quite as book-smart.

My latest concern is now that I am learning all of this my vigor to think and power thru is dialing back. I am trying to have a good perspective and not beat myself up for not being productive at all moments, which truth much of my "productive" moments were disassociating via thinking. So trying to learn how to rebalance.

Last night I was reading an article on how the brain splits in trauma to protect itself and emotions. Very interesting. I was tired but wanted to read more. So I appreciate your post and its timing.

 

[MyWillow]

Just on body awareness stuff...I freaking hate yoga. It makes me want to throw up or run or dissociate. Even Trauma Sensitive Yoga (who’s stupid idea was it to put trauma in that by the way?) But I am persisting with it and have done it for 15 days straight whilst overseas for work. I don’t love it but it is helping to keep me on an even keel.