"There is No Cure."

[Sweet_E]

You’re mixing up 2 things here.

It’s a medical truism (truth being different from fact) that if you believe you’re going to be fine, you usually will be.

Yes, yes, yes, I believe that is the thing we both agree on and that is probably more along the lines of what I was trying to convey.

And I believe my message probably came across the wrong way because I mentioned that I was reading an article on here and that made people defensive.

In all honesty, I have a knee-jerk reaction to the "there is no cure" statement because I've seen it so many times in the context of "Here's how you can help for PTSD." It's like they have to drive that point in really hard for fear that the person on the other end might get disillusioned into thinking there's more hope than there actually it is. In my opinion, it's way over used, kind of like a legal disclaimer. "Oh, you're looking for help with your PTSD? Here are some promising treatments. But remember, there's no cure, okay?"

 

[Ronin]

I also wanted to express to those who prefer to have a positive outlook about their journey that they can feel justified to do that.

Literally everyone on this site alone.
As individuals and as a community, we would not be here if we did not work on things, daily.

Still does not change facts.
You are preaching to the wrong choir, here.
Facts have nothing to do with faith, trying or not trying enough, whether or not some doctors can be wrong about this concrete thing to that concrete patient, or unrelated other diagnoses.

And: Not whole medical information, about anyone you are bringing up here.
Still does not change the information about PTSD being incurable.
How managed or not is a different thing altogether. The basics stay.

ETA: You cannot make informed decisions about your treatment without the correct information.
Or, at some point, make decisions AT All.
That is not hopeful in the slightest, and it preys on already vulnerable people... instead of empowering them.
Giving false hopes IS dangerous, Is deadly.

 

[Sweet_E]

Ok, cool. So yes, context is definitely important.

One thing to keep in mind perhaps? Is when we need to take some personal responsibility, rather than expecting those around us to adjust the way they behave or communicate.

Doctor with a lousy bedside manner? Sure. Give doc a few lessons with someone who can help doc improve that. Patient outcomes are going to improve.

But in this context? You read an article, on a ptsd website, conveying information about ptsd. For every person who puts a whole lot of value on the concept of a cure being possible one day? You have someone like me, and who reeeeally doesn’t like fluffy language when we’re talking about my health. I need things straight up, or I find it just plain old patronising! Different strokes, right?

It’s good to unpack this stuff occasionally, you know? If you’re currently approaching your mental health situation from a really vulnerable position, where it’s critical that things retain that positive spin? Then your T might be a better place to get your information from right now. Your T knows you personally, and has a better idea of your values and vulnerabilities, and can convey information in a way that will be helpful to you personally.

You absolutely make good points. Thank you for being respectful. And yes, I do recognize that what I find to be positive, someone else might find patronizing.

 

[somerandomguy]

I wonder how much we're just arguing semantics here.

My preferred nomenclature is "healing." I am currently working on healing my PTSD. Someday, I hope to be healed. This doesn't mean I expect to have zero symptoms. This means I will usually be able to deal with my symptoms so efficiently and appropriately that they will cause me almost no pain or grief.

I know it can be done, and that's what I'm headed for.

 

[Sweet_E]

Literally everyone on this site alone.
As individuals and as a community, we would not be here if we did not work on things, daily.

Still does not change facts.
You are preaching to the wrong choir, here.
Facts have nothing to do with faith, trying or not trying enough, whether or not some doctors can be wrong about this concrete thing to that concrete patient, or unrelated other diagnoses.

And: Not whole medical information, about anyone you are bringing up here.
Still does not change the information about PTSD being incurable.
How managed or not is a different thing altogether. The basics stay.

You might be the wrong choir but many people agreed with my post and thanked me. We are all different and we are all entitled to our own perspectives.

 

[Friday]

I believe that's what is called a slippery slope fallacy. If someone believes that they can find a cure, or remission, or whatever their goal is, it does not necessarily mean they will behave recklessly. On the contrary, it could mean they work pretty damn hard developing skills to manage their symptoms while they try to work on the root cause.

Nope. Not at all.

Slippery slope fallacy is a logically flawed argument, where a tiny thing is predicted to have extreme consequences, that are extremely unlikely. Like, first you let women drive, and then they all murder their husbands in their beds. (Who has friends in the KSA??? Yes. This argument has been on the radio! :facepalm: )

When someone is in cancer remission, it’s LIKELY that flu like symptoms could be a resurgence of their cancer. It’s also possible it’s just the flu. That means it’s not a logical fallacy to suspect cancer, if you’re in cancer remission, and to haul ass to the ER. Especially if it’s a notoriously fast acting cancer like nonhodgekins lymphoma.

1. Cure & Remission are different. If you believe you’re in remission, it’s different from believing you’re cured.

2. it’s not behaving recklessly to live your life as normal if you’re actually cured. It’s normal.

Knowing the difference between cure & remission? Changes your behavior. For very good reason. It’s makes logical sense. If/then/&, technically speaking.

I am not one of the people that compare mental conditions esp trauma to cancer or HIV or whatever.

Trauma isn’t a mental health condition. Whether it’s a broken leg or a rape, trauma is the thing that happens to someone.

Yep. People have an enormous range of responses to trauma. Physiologically & Psychologically. Based on a huge number of factors... that we don’t even know all of them, yet.

100 years ago we didn’t know why 10 people with 10 broken legs had such massively different outcomes. Now? We do. We understand why some people’s legs fester (infection), why some people suffer heart attacks or stroke or pulmonary collapse (fat embolism), why some people’s legs stop growing even when the bone is set & heals completely with no pain (ephesial plate damage) ... and the list goes on and on and on (crush syndrome, autoimmune response, nerve damage, vascular damage, CT damage, osteonecrosis, osteoporosis, heavy metal toxicity, genetic disorders, etc., etc., etc.).

We understand these things because... science.

Because not all broken legs are the same, and we didn’t try to whitewash them that way; but actually looked for what made them different, and tried to understand the differences, and tried to understand how these differences were caused, what effects that had & how they were affected by what & why, how they were best treated... and we’re still not totally there. Medicine is a highly evolving field. We don’t have effective treatments for all of the resulting conditions following a broken bone, yet. Although we’re working on it. And we’re still discovering better and more effective treatments (silk screws! OMFG! <swoon> Screws that can be made to have the same tensile strength of bone, as opposed to metal which causes ongoing torque & damage. Screws that can dissolve at a predicted rate allowing the matrix to regrow or even encourage osteogenesis??? :eek: How f*cking cool is that?!?)

Medicine? As far as it’s come, as as well accepted as it is... Is still in the dark ages, compared to the potentials it could realistically reach even in my own lifetime, much less given another few hundred years. But we -as a people- accept medicine as an evolving science. We don’t understand everything, are still learning, and that’s accepted.

Psych? All the same tired old arguments against using science in psych, and the stigma surrounding psych, you can easily just blow the dust off of all the reasons medicine/ illness/ injury shouldn’t be treated like a science, from a couple hundred years ago. It’s GOD’S WILL, not germ theory, that people get sick. Weakness of character. Moral injury. Lack of constitution.

Why do 10 people with 10 broken legs all have different outcomes... being a reason NOT to investigate further :confused: seems insane to most people today (and yet, same argument as 10 people experience trauma & get 10 different outcomes = a reason to not try and figure out why & how makes sense to people???).

Medicine is an established science, but we’re still just at the tip of the iceberg in application & understanding.

Psych? Is a baaaaaaby science. We understand about as much about psych today as we understood about medicine 200 years ago. Before we had blood tests, and microscopes, and genetic testing, and the tools designed to allow us to discover what makes this illness different from that one, and this injury has this effect instead of that one.

It’s no more minimizing or silencing people to bring up the science & where we are in our understanding, than it is an affront against god to wash your hands.

It’s an attempt to engender common understanding, and to advance our own.

 

[Sweet_E]

Nope. Not at all.

Slippery slope fallacy is a logically flawed argument, where a tiny thing is predicted to have extreme consequences, that are extremely unlikely. Like, first you let women drive, and then they all murder their husbands in their beds. (Who has friends in the KSA??? Yes. This argument has been on the radio! :facepalm:)

When someone is in cancer remission, it’s LIKELY that flu like symptoms could be a resurgence of their cancer. It’s also possible it’s just the flu. That means it’s not a logical fallacy to suspect cancer, if you’re in cancer remission, and to haul ass to the ER. Especially if it’s a notoriously fast acting cancer like nonhodgekins lymphoma.

1. Cure & Remission are different. If you believe you’re in remission, it’s different from believing you’re cured.

2. it’s not behaving recklessly to live your life as normal if you’re actually cured. It’s normal.

Knowing the difference between cure & remission? Changes your behavior. For very good reason. It’s makes logical sense. If/then/&, technically speaking.

Okay, I see what you're saying. You're speaking from the perspective that someone believes they are already cured, not that they might someday be cured. I was thinking more from the later perspective.

Thinking about that now, I'm not convinced that someone would more likely be reckless if they felt they were cured versus being in remission. I think that has more to do with the person's disposition and other factors. And here is an example from my own personal experience. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder in my early 20's. I was told that it is incurable. I have not had a major depressive episode in over 15 years. I honestly feel like I am cured and I do not hold that diagnosis any longer. I do not behave recklessly because of that belief. I've learned skills on how to manage the negative thoughts that were causing the depression and I feel my brain has changed. When I do start to feel depressed, I have learned not to be afraid of it, remind myself that it perfectly normal to feel blue sometimes, and I become more mindful. I have not been depressed for longer than a week unless I was grieving a loss, which disqualifies the episode as being clinical depression. The skills that I learned to help me overcome the depression are still a part of me. I would probably have to work pretty damn hard and purposely think negatively and put myself in bad situations in order to have a major depressive episode or there would have to been some extreme circumstance. The habits I have developed that helped me overcome the depression are engrained in me now.

I think if someone had a serious illness that was accompanied by fever, and then was cured, I think it's possible they could reach for the tylenol. OR, they could be more intimately aware that a fever could be a sign of something serious and they would get checked out. I have never known anyone who believed they were cured of PTSD but if this did occur, they might be just as cautious as someone who has a family history of cancer, for example, and tries to take steps to avoid getting it. Similarly, if someone has a family history of something, they might be more aware of certain symptoms. They might have the predisposition of the illness, but it doesn't mean they have the actual illness. There are some people, on the other hand, who are going to be reckless no matter what.

 

[Sweet_E]

And we’re still discovering better and more effective treatments (silk screws! OMFG! <swoon>

I have never known anyone to swoon over silk screws. LOVE it!

 

[hithere]

I haven't read the article, but I can tell you that there is recovery from PTSD. Very much so.

 

[anthony]

Maybe this is just semantics but I feel it is important to discuss this because the statement of "There is no cure" for anything has the power to unnecessarily deflate someone's hope. I never want to take someone's hope away or limit what they feel is possible for them.

Political correctness is a whole bunch of BS. When medicine says there is a cure for PTSD, I will regurgitate, there is a cure for PTSD. Right now, the experts say that PTSD can be treated effectively for a majority of sufferers so they no longer experience debilitating symptoms in their life. When the experts with scientific backing and agreement change their view as they can support it, so will I.

Notice how political correctness has no place in medicine? Not sure why you bring GOD into this either. Prove this fact of there being a GOD please? I will additionally add, prove this fact you claim that the better way of saying there is no cure is to begin making up stuff like... there may be a cure, or other such claims! Is this not lying? Sounds like lying to me. Sounds like political correct nonsense, which is a nice way of lying to oneself, to make oneself or another feel better about the reality of the facts as they stand now.

Lets not lie. I do not encourage lying to oneself in order to make yourself feel better. PTSD is a mystery that to date, has no cure, but can be treated with varying levels of success.

Political correctness can be left at the fluffy groups and communities of varying subjects where this can exist. This community I encourage to be open and honest as possible, no BS, and move forward through all the shit people have endured, the lies, torture, humiliation, pain and suffering. Political correctness is not going to help anyone with that. Honesty is the best policy.

So... being honest: PTSD has no cure, but can be treated with varying levels of success.

PS. Most articles here that I wrote are up to 12 years old, and have been changed across systems over the years, thus the dates are incorrect.

 

[EveHarrington]

I expressed an opinion about a phrase that is used by many people pretty frequently. The intention is to start a discussion, not to make personal attacks. Why don't we keep the discussion to discussing the points instead of making it personal and making assumptions about people's intentions or they feel. Thanks.





Thanks! I know I've probably ruffled some feathers but I'm glad someone got something out of it. I think we all have strong opinions about this stuff because it hits home so much.

Well regardless of what you think my intentions are, you did call out someone (unknown) for what was written elsewhere, without linking or giving context. You say you were just starting a conversation, but you're not willing to listen to replies like mine that don't agree with you and see things from a different perspective.

I'm one of those hypervigilant as FCK people (which appears as paranoia) so I just sit here and think OMG it's not cool to slam what someone else says like this because I'd hate to have it done to me.

*thinks* what if someone does this to me? If feel horrible. Blindsided? Backstabbed?

It's because I ABHOOOOOOOOOR anything but direct communication as it does indeed spike my paranoid hypervigilance.

Yeah, my issue to deal with, I know, but I wasn't personally attacking you. I think you're in triggered mode right now as you OP seemed triggered and your response to me seemed triggered. Nobody is attacking you...

 

[shimmerz]

The thing is, there is no cure to trauma. Because the trauma happened and it can't be taken back and it changes us. Profoundly.

For myself I think the 'cure' is in an gathering of tools etc that can be used as an inoculation of sorts for further damage. Learning how not to get suckered into taking on endless amounts of stress. Learning how to be aware of self care for the body. Learning how to get out of left brain activities.

Basically unlearning all we were taught so we would be good little worker bees in this society of ours. The cure is in throwing off what we have been taught to mindfully do. Ignore our own best interests for the sake of big corporations.

^^^ Just recognizing this dynamic has me cured. Never biting into that hook ever again. No matter how big, fat, shiny the worm is.