General The New Talk of Getting Rid of Stigma Feels Like Lip Service

[NaeNae75]

Does anyone else here feel like the posts and memes about cutting the stigma of mental illness, or PTSD post about 22 days, or other ones regarding the face of Depression just feel like lip service? It's really getting under my skin the last few weeks as I've tried to reach out to some friends, or even PTSD support communities and have found no help, or even the opposite.

I feel like it's politically correct to share or re-post, but no one's really ready to get their hands dirty to help. Pfft, they're not even willing to be ready to have an open mind! For example, if I try to explain that certain things K does has nothing to do with me, it's a safety mechanism, etc... they play me off as naive or enabling. I don't think it's enabling to recognize that certain symptoms of PTSD are real, and sufferers utilize them to feel safe, not to inflict harm.

Of course I'm not referring to abuse or anything like that. But I know that sometimes I will dissociate in certain circumstances. People will be angry with me for "ignoring them". I had zero intention to ignore them, but something inside went off and pulled me away to feel safe, I don't know why it happens, but it does. I try to do things to stop it now that I'm aware of it, but it isn't a 100% thing I can stop. I know K isolates. It has zero to do with being __________(any number of names he gets called). It's because he's on overload and needs to go to "life support only" to survive. Again, he is trying to work on it, but it doesn't always translate.

So I guess my point is, how can we really make a difference to lessen the stigma? What can we really do for people to not use it as a "slogan" but really embrace it? I know I try to educate people in my life about it....explain it's about brain chemistry and "get over it" doesn't do much to change brain chemistry. I'm not suggesting that any mental stuff should be an "excuse", but it should mean a little understanding and willingness to accommodate when possible should be utilized.

For example, I work in construction. You had better believe I try to avoid letting any of those guys know about my mental health status, let alone K's.... I can't bear for K or myself to be labeled as weak by these guys. It turns into a gossip fest.

Also, I've seen this meme about the "face of depression" or something going around with alot of famous actors/actresses and singers that have taken their own lives. Yes, it's insanely sad. But when I'm looking for help to support my effort to support a real life person, I get met with ridicule, non-belief, or harshness. Of course not by everyone, but people aren't really interested in taking time out of their lives to really do anything that takes longer than clicking a button in "their support". I suppose maybe I'm just angry because some of the people in my family that shares this stuff the most are typically the ones willing to step out of their comfort zone the least.

Sorry for the rambling, but seriously, does anyone have any ideas on how to genuinely educate or show how to really be supportive? I mean, those of us here should somewhat be "loveseat experts" since we're hip deep in the trenches. What would you find as supportive as a supporter...what would be helpful for sufferers/survivors?

 

[Sideways]

Mental health stigma is a great big chip on my shoulder that I carry around, and I frequently find myself getting angry about it. I have seen the meme with the faces of famous people who have lost their life to depression, and I definitely paused for a moment and thought about whether that was truly helpful.

Yes, famous people get depression, but for me, the ‘face’ of depression is actually just the average person on the street. The 1in 4 people who will face depression at some point in their life. That’s approaching 2 billion people worldwide.

What probably upsets me more is when I see stigma creeping into places where mental health illness ought to be met with compassion and support. Places like this forum, when the occasional thread can turn into a bit of a fest for perpetuating misconceptions about BPD, narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder. That makes me really angry.

I have a tendency to scroll past the memes on social media. They don’t add much quality to the conversation as far as I’m concerned. But I also (for the most part) try not to let them annoy me.

Social media is part of people’s lives today. Millions of people are spending (literally) hours on social media every day. Mental health memes appearing regularly in that forum I do think help normalise the concept that mental health is everywhere, and it’s appropriate that it appears on people’s news feeds each day. It’s not going to overcome stigma on its own, but it is one of the ways that we can help normalise how commonplace mental illness is. People are reminded, even if it’s just briefly, every day. And hopefully, for the next generation (who live much of their life via social media), it may be helping to implant the notion that mental illness is normal and common in their subconscious. It’s a small part of the solution. Not a very momentous one, but at least it features. Memes at least acknowledge “this is an issue”, and a complete absence of that acknowledgement I think would be worse.

Around the world, it’s a much slower process changing people’s mindset about mental illness. A few generations ago, depression as a ‘treatable illness’ wasn’t even a thing. It wasn’t something we discussed, let alone understood. I think that’s chnaging slowly.

Changing the public perception is a slow process, and memes flying past as 1,000 per second doesn’t mean that people’s long-standing notions are going to change just as fast.

So, memes are part of the process. They don’t translate into overnight change IRL, but they’re a small part of the gradual generational change that needs to take place.

If you get passionate? Be part of the change. Lobby your local member for better funding for mental health programs and treatment facilities and services. Join a Stigma Watch campaign calling out stigma where you see it. Direct your anger into meaningful action.

But mostly? Be patient. Change like this takes time. Most memes are pretty thoughtless nothings. It’s okay to scroll past them and just be a little bit grateful that they’re there at all. “Someone thought to create another meme about mental health - yay!”

It’s tough. I always feel a little happiness when I see people getting pissed off about mental illness stigma. It’s good to know others feel strongly about it like I do.

 

[NaeNae75]

Mental health stigma is a great big chip on my shoulder that I carry around, and I frequently find myself getting angry about it. I have seen the meme with the faces of famous people who have lost their life to depression, and I definitely paused for a moment and thought about whether that was truly helpful.

Yes, famous people get depression, but for me, the ‘face’ of depression is actually just the average person on the street. The 1in 4 people who will face depression at some point in their life. That’s approaching 2 billion people worldwide.

What probably upsets me more is when I see stigma creeping into places where mental health illness ought to be met with compassion and support. Places like this forum, when the occasional thread can turn into a bit of a fest for perpetuating misconceptions about BPD, narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder. That makes me really angry.

I have a tendency to scroll past the memes on social media. They don’t add much quality to the conversation as far as I’m concerned. But I also (for the most part) try not to let them annoy me.

Social media is part of people’s lives today. Millions of people are spending (literally) hours on social media every day. Mental health memes appearing regularly in that forum I do think help normalise the concept that mental health is everywhere, and it’s appropriate that it appears on people’s news feeds each day. It’s not going to overcome stigma on its own, but it is one of the ways that we can help normalise how commonplace mental illness is. People are reminded, even if it’s just briefly, every day. And hopefully, for the next generation (who live much of their life via social media), it may be helping to implant the notion that mental illness is normal and common in their subconscious. It’s a small part of the solution. Not a very momentous one, but at least it features. Memes at least acknowledge “this is an issue”, and a complete absence of that acknowledgement I think would be worse.

Around the world, it’s a much slower process changing people’s mindset about mental illness. A few generations ago, depression as a ‘treatable illness’ wasn’t even a thing. It wasn’t something we discussed, let alone understood. I think that’s chnaging slowly.

Changing the public perception is a slow process, and memes flying past as 1,000 per second doesn’t mean that people’s long-standing notions are going to change just as fast.

So, memes are part of the process. They don’t translate into overnight change IRL, but they’re a small part of the gradual generational change that needs to take place.

If you get passionate? Be part of the change. Lobby your local member for better funding for mental health programs and treatment facilities and services. Join a Stigma Watch campaign calling out stigma where you see it. Direct your anger into meaningful action.

But mostly? Be patient. Change like this takes time. Most memes are pretty thoughtless nothings. It’s okay to scroll past them and just be a little bit grateful that they’re there at all. “Someone thought to create another meme about mental health - yay!”

It’s tough. I always feel a little happiness when I see people getting pissed off about mental illness stigma. It’s good to know others feel strongly about it like I do.

I honestly love everything you just said! My mind is kind of jelly right now, so I don't have a whole lot to offer in return. However, I do see your point of view clearly, and it helped to sooth my heart a bit. I think I'm maybe a bit too raw because of the personal aspects of it (knowing the people sharing in my life are not helpful and even are the "abuser").

So really, to take a step back and look at the Macro, you're very correct. I think maybe I'll take a couple of your suggestions into account. I think there's value in it for sure!

 

[EveHarrington]

I think it’s good to have supporters like you who care about fighting the good fight...!

I mean, for many of us, we’re so far down in the trenches of PTSD that we don’t have time to fight the stigma, as we’re too busy just trying to survive.

I do worry about stigma, but at this point since I don’t have to deal with it and can “hide” this side of me, it’s not a priority. Heck, even if/when I do have to deal with it, I still probably won’t have any extra time/energy to fight the good fight!

So, I thank you, and every one who rises up against mental health stigma.

 

[NaeNae75]

I think it’s good to have supporters like you who care about fighting the good fight...!

I mean, for many of us, we’re so far down in the trenches of PTSD that we don’t have time to fight the stigma, as we’re too busy just trying to survive.

I do worry about stigma, but at this point since I don’t have to deal with it and can “hide” this side of me, it’s not a priority. Heck, even if/when I do have to deal with it, I still probably won’t have any extra time/energy to fight the good fight!

So, I thank you, and every one who rises up against mental health stigma.

Thanks, Eve! It really bothers me, because it hinders the ability to get help for a lot of people. It also hinders the supporters from getting enough support for their self care as well. I personally think that is pretty important!

 

[Abstract]

It really gets up my nose too Naenae. And it sounds like that group you belonged to should have understood and yet you found lack of understanding there.

I am particularly affected by peoples poor reactions to those who are publically known to have suffered abuse or PTSD. And mental health. And I get physical reactions when I see people stand up for others in those situations and show understanding or care. Its like it puts a little salve on those particular wounds in some way. Those deep interpersonal wounds caused by trauma or emotional abuse.

I'm not sure if it is improving or not. Seems like there is at least more discussion around it. Self preservation means I avoid discussing things like this with those I know are particularly ignorant. Like your colleagues from the sounds of things. Yes it hinders people getting help and hinders people helping. Dont do social media so cant comment on that. ;)

 

[Friday]

It’s just part of how it happens. Just look at women being treated like people. A couple decades of lip service & jokes, tokens up front and bullshit in back, & eventually real expectations start shifting.

Don’t expect to see it in your lifetime. In your grandkids, maybe.

 

[Never_falter2]

I just speak for vet and me. Other may find it offensive what I say but I do think it is best to sometimes ignore ptsd a bit because there is the danger of “patronizing“ the person. So a person may have ptsd but he or she has also other qualities. He or she be a officer or an athlete or a mother or a friend or a son or a sister or an artist or a lover of fine wines or a combination of those, look at the other things. People with psd first are people... I agree with @Friday. Like women. They are people and should not be reduced on their gender. In case of combat ptsd I think it is better to say “he is a soldier and took wounds for his country“ then to say “I feel so sorry for this disabled guy“. They do not like this.
I think I do not agree with @EveHarrington because for my vet it is very important how people look at him and he wants to be respected. It helps him to get better.

 

[NaeNae75]

I guess I'm confused about what you're saying in relation to this. Because I think the whole point is to take stigma away, not be patronizing. I don't see anywhere in Eve's post that she said anything different than that. To me, she's saying she's too busy holding up her tough front to the "public" to have enough energy to fight against stigma. Im pretty sure she's also saying that what the issue world sees is somewhat important to her too.
I think I agree that none of us want to be liked at as "look at that disabled anything".
But that statement and ignoring PTSD are two separate things. You don't get to the point where you feel secure in getting treatment by ignoring its existence because you're strong enough without getting help. The biggest problem is that ignoring it because people assume then you are weak is exactly what the stigma is.
The thought that you can have PTSD and be self aware enough to know you need help for it is strong, is what should be desired. Not that I'm tough so I can handle it myself so people don't see me as weak.
See, I've lived both sides of that equation, and one leads to healthier people tghe other leads to unhealthy coping and often abuse. I've lived both ways as family of the PTSD survivor, and in my own self with my own PTSD treated and untreated.

I hid my treatment, and sometimes still do, from the people I work with. Because I work in construction, and yep....big group of guys that many if are vets... not willing to look weak to them. But the reality is when I wasn't in treatment, I protect myself in unhealthy ways. I disassociate a lot. Yeah, not awesome to do when you run heavy machinery for a living. I would have angry outbursts, talk about "looking" crazy. Plus other coping mechanisms so I could "look tough", ....and when I failed, all I could think of was suicide because I couldn't live up to any of it.

The reality is, if I would have ignored it, I might not be here to have raised my kids, and now enjoy my granddaughter.

I also know that my father to this day refuses treatment for his PTSD, because that's what "pu$$ie$" do. I can tell you what a joy it's been for him and our family to live from that perspective... first it was alcoholism... to which he would black out, not know who we were, and try to kill us because we were VC to him. That was fun... Then he would tell us horrific details and then tell us how he was going to go on a shooting rampage then commit suicide. Now that he's physically disabled, he just does his best to make sure the rest of us are as miserable as he is in days he's down. If on his up days he could own this behavior, he'd hate himself. Yeah....zero of it was healthy for any of us.

Then my vet, he has gotten treatment on and off. He struggles hard with his diagnosis. He struggles with what the diagnosis means about who he is because of the stigma associated. I don't know if he'll really dive into his treatment until he accepts it more than just a diagnosis.
To me, being able to accept it, almost embrace it so you can process its integral to looking term healthy survival. So do I think the PTSD should be the first part of a person's identity, of course not. But do I think the extreme of ignoring it is any better, no, I don't. See because even though it's not the primary component, it is still part of the person.
To use your example, I should not be reduced because I'm a woman. But if I ignore the fact I am indeed a woman, I'm not honoring who I am either.

Im not sure if I misunderstood you, if so, than I guess I'm confused. But either way I think the original purpose of the post is sideways.

My whole original point is that I get annoyed that people treat any "mental illness" differently than they would someone with a "physical illness " and that's not right. It can be harder to manage because it's not "seen" but both types of illness need treatment. It's just exasperating that the mental stuff comes with such stigma. I think acceptance rather than ignoring leads to "normalize" it and remove the stigma. It isn't weak.

 

[Never_falter2]

I think you got me wrong. I do not hate led that the person having ptsd should just ignore it... the opposite is the case. The person with ptsd should seek therapy... BUT what I wanted to say other people should not pay to much attention to the fact a person has ptsd in order not to patronize them. To give an example. Vet would like to tell people he does not like certain noises but he does not tell them because he is afraid they would see him in a different light. He is afraid that he would not be seen as somebody who is competent and in charge anymore but as somebody who is crazy.

So this is my idea how to best react when a vet tells you he has ptsd “Oh I see, so you have kind of a war wound. So is there something I need to know (like certain triggers)“ and then drop topic. It has been very helpful for me vet to see it like a war wound and helped him embrace it more.

Maybe I got @EveHarrington Wrong. I thought she was to busy fighting ptsd and did not care what people thing. For my vet it is very important how the people think of him.

 

[NaeNae75]

I think you got me wrong. I do not hate led that the person having ptsd should just ignore it... the opposite is the case. The person with ptsd should seek therapy... BUT what I wanted to say other people should not pay to much attention to the fact a person has ptsd in order not to patronize them. To give an example. Vet would like to tell people he does not like certain noises but he does not tell them because he is afraid they would see him in a different light. He is afraid that he would not be seen as somebody who is competent and in charge anymore but as somebody who is crazy.

So this is my idea how to best react when a vet tells you he has ptsd “Oh I see, so you have kind of a war wound. So is there something I need to know (like certain triggers)“ and then drop topic. It has been very helpful for me vet to see it like a war wound and helped him embrace it more.

Maybe I got @EveHarrington Wrong. I thought she was to busy fighting ptsd and did not care what people thing. For my vet it is very important how the people think of him.

Sorry, I must have read it wrong. I think we're sort of saying the same thing in a different way. I think he's more worried about what his peers would think, more than anything... which is sad. But I think most of them get it, they just don't believe that.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[IceQueencop]

@NaeNae75
Maybe this is why the #metoo movement was so huge. Because, it wasn’t people standing up and pointing to others and saying, “end the stigma.” It was women standing up and saying, “I’ve been there, too.”
But, many of us, like @EveHarrington mentioned, are too busy fighting our own battles to bear witness. In addition, there isn’t one perfect treatment that will aid all of us quickly. That lack of actionability is frustrating for most of us. A call to action to “get help!” quickly falters when you ask what that means. So, when you ask for help and understanding, being specific about your needs may be helpful.
I’m fairly open with certain people about my diagnosis and my story. I often have people ask, how can I support a friend with PTSD?

Well? How do I want to be supported? Where do I begin? Is this a person I can share my story with? Or will they suffer from vicarious trauma if I tell them detail? Is it enough to talk about my symptoms, or will even that freak people out?
Maybe the person you are seeking support from isn’t strong enough to be leaned on. That’s not about you, and that’s not rejection, it’s their weakness. You and your vet are dealing with quite a bit. Maybe it’s enough to let people know that seeing/experiencing trauma stays with you and sometimes comes out in weird ways, similar to daydreams.