How do you define "love"?

[Friday]

Ex)

If Friend = someone you know who asks you for things, and uses you, and says mean things, and threatens you with things, guilt trips you, steals your stuff, loses their temper at you, etc. (with friends like these, who needs enemies?)

Ami = Someone you know who doesn’t do those things AND likes you, and enjoys spending time with you, etc. AND that you don’t do those things to them, either (because Ami don’t do those things to each other) AND you like them, enjoy spending time with them, etc.

Grand ami = Ami PLUS this that and the other.

Don’t try to define what Ami feels like, if you haven’t had it. It’s something you come to learn what it looks like, and feels like, by doing it. In some ways it will feel the same to other relationships, in some ways it will feel very different. Because it’s its own thing, not a bouncing cat or huge mouse, you learn about it by doing it.

Ditto, don’t try to “force” Ami. If someone who might be an Ami starts acting like a “friend” by threatening you, stealing your stuff, asking for money, trying to sleep with you, only calling you when they want something, etc.? They’re not Ami. They just lost the right to be your Ami, by doing those things. They may still be your friend, if you choose to keep them in your life, but they are not your Ami.

Gradually, you’ll start having 2 groups of people in your social life... “Friends” and Ami... as you learn what really makes people Ami. What you want in an Ami. And how to be a good Ami, yourself.

 

[Tinyflame]

To me, love is caring about someone or something at least as much, if not more, than you care for yourself, and making your decisions accordingly.

Being loved is someone or something else feeling the same in return, communicating it, and acting accordingly.

Accepting love is believing that there is more truth in the above than there is doubt or proof otherwise.

To be real and not transient, it involves cherishing; not taking for granted; fidelity; gratitude; acceptance; maturity; responsibility; forgiveness; sacrifice; respect; wisdom; friendship; sharing; trust; effort; freedom; work.

JMHO though.

 

[Ronin]

I dig and respect your compass on love so hard, Junebug. :inlove: :tup:

 

[PreciousChild]

I read through the whole thread. I agree with your T that love is a basic need, though there are many ways to define it as people have posted. So many times in my life, I asked the same questions you do. If I didn't get love when I needed it, is the time past for any recovery? If a person never gets food (a need), they die. But if the "need" is love, you still survive, but maybe something inside dies? Can that part be revived or will I always feel unloveable and incapable of knowing what love is? I wanted to share an experience I had early-ish on in my ptsd healing journey. I did a reparenting exercise in which I imagined my dad gave me acceptance and love. It was very involved with scenarios and music and stuff, and these images kept coming up while driving or meditating over the course of months. At the end of that period, I actually felt this sense of unconditional affirmation that I've since built upon. I have nothing to compare it to and I can't prove it, but I felt what I think to be the kind of love that people who are loved as kids have. It was like I felt an absolute embrace, acceptance without question. It was without words and just very deeply felt. So my conclusion is that it can be recovered and I think so because I think love has a deep source in the universe.

I think love is definitely relational, but I think for me the struggle has been with myself - to undistort my history so that I can feel loveable and be able to love the way I think we were meant to. I think @Abstract is right about Harlow's monkeys and that it shows that love is a need rather than a social construct.

 

[Survivor3]

I haven't been in a "relationship" with anyone for a LONG time, but I have met someone and she has made me feel 'in love' again. So why do I feel like this I ask myself?!
- Well first of all we have Good conversation, personnel and honest without hangups.
-She makes an effort to care about my welfare without me asking for anything or wanting anything in return.
-we have mutual interests in common.
-I know from inside that I care about her alot.
-of many more things I could write, I find her very attractive!

It takes a lot for me to feel this way about someone. My heart isn't easily ignited!
So here it goes, the little problem! - I work with her and do not want to risk an embarrassing situation by saying lets go out and her saying it's not appropriate. She is my mentor of sorts! Anyway I have faith that if it's meant to happen it will. Most people wouldn't give a flying f*ck about saying something but I do at the moment.

 

[Changing4Best]

I think for different people , love is different. My husband loved me first, I think, by accepting me as I was, not trying to change me. He understood that I was kind of wounded, I think, even though I was not yet aware of it. He handled me as if I were fragile (I was). He gave me back rubs while we watched TV. He sometimes cooked for me when I was not up to it, or we went out to eat. He told me stories about his life as a sailor, what it was like working on a merchant vessel and sailing all over the world. I was enthralled. He understood that, so he would tell me about his job as a longshoreman, whatever, just to amuse me. I love stories, always have. My grandparents all told me stories (well, except for my abuser). So, in a way, I see love as being told stories about life. If someone cares enough about you to tell you about their life, about what makes them tick, then that is love to me.

As to giving love, caring for a person, doing things for them, that is a kind of love. Doing the things for them that they cannot do or don't have time to do is especially loving, I think. Doing the kinds of things that they like to do with them. If they like to go hiking, well, you get on your hiking boots and go with them. If they like to sit and watch TV, well, you do that. You let them have the remote too.

My husband and I were married 23 years until the day he died. It was not a perfect marriage, but it was a good one.

Then there is tough love. That is the most difficult. If someone is an addict of some kind, you have to be careful NOT to contribute to their addiction in any way. This may be doing things to distract them from it, it may be denying them money with with to participate in it, etc.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

But if the "need" is love, you still survive, but maybe something inside dies? Can that part be revived or will I always feel unloveable and incapable of knowing what love is?

Yes! My question too!

Sorry gone so long. But still tossing it around. I think renaming it is a good idea and then coming up with a new definition is also a good idea but what name and then how do I go about defining it when I have no idea what it even is?

Got a taste of my dad's uncaringness yesterday and OMG does that hurt. Long story. Car died 23 miles from home. Waited for 2 hrs for the tow truck who was able to jump it (while sick as a dog) and my dad refusing to drive 30 miles to help me. I didn't know it was just a battery at the time. Was using the last of my sick and personal time, had to get to work the next day, incapable to walking to the bus stop (especially while sick) and it took my step mom to step in and say "we are helping her" for him to agree. But being told, basiclly, that he could careless, really, REALLY hurt! So, I know what it's not. It's not that.

My mechanic brought me a battery and waited until today for payment so my dad didn't have to do anything but he really didn't care and that REALLY hurt!

But, yeah, does that part of you ever heal? Can I really ever be loveable or be able to give love? I mean, REALLY? Is it a lesser love or a fake love? A fraction of love? I thought I was in love with my ex. I was wrong. But the break up really hurt and it fractured something in me or a wall came up or something. I blocked that part out. So I can't be hurt like that again. Can that ever be repaired? And if so, how?

So many questions, so little answers.

My therapist keeps comparing it to my service dog, Chopper. Maybe because he's laying on the floor in session there with us. Not sure.

But, I had a nightmare the other day and it caused me to make the oddest sounding scream in my sleep. I was home asleep, Chopper on his bed, I on the couch, and Chopper woke me and my hands and arms were having horrid muscle spasms in my arms and hands. I couldn't move. My hands were in my lap but I couldn't move them. Chopper's licking was bothering me so I told him to go to "place" (his bed). He wasn't having it. That's called intellengent disobdience. Do what you need rather then what you're asking and it's both trained and learned over time. He kept trying to move my hands out of the way. He wanted to do DPT (deep pressure therapy). He hasn't done DPT that way in a long time (sitting and having his front end come over my lap, backend on the floor). I usally will sit on his bed as it's easier to get thigh and chest pressure at the same time that way.

Anyway, I was able to get my hands moved and he came over my lap and did perfect DPT until the muscle spasms lessened to shaking and then that lessened and I was able to move. He was hurting me so I had him off once but he still refused to go to his bed and laid on my feet (which also helps). I then had him do another round of DPT then he finally went to his bed when I was able to move.

I said all of that to illustrate a point. That's what my therapist is refering to when he refers to Chopper. Not a pet's love but a service dog's care. It's care but isn't that also a form of love. It's something that I can grasp so I think that's why my therapist keeps bringing up Chopper.

He talks about his dog, Moe. A black 10 yr old Golden Doodle. He says he doesn't expect his wife to greet him at the door with a ball in her mouth but she also understands that Moe gets greeted first before her. Not sure why he said that. Maybe different forms of love? Ilustrating different forms of it?

My husband loved me first, I think, by accepting me as I was, not trying to change me.

Yes, that's what the christian youth center did and what everyone else hasn't done. Everyone else wants me to change. This last pastor really hurt me all due to how damaged and mixed up I was. When you are not accepted how you are, it really hurts at a whole new level. Its why i can't stop thinking about him and the incident that made him run. It wasn't my fault. They knew how damaged I was and couldn't accept me how I was. They hurt me in about the same way my ex did. Maybe it's a guard i put up and I let my guard down? Maybe it's a guard? I'm not sure.

I really hope my rambling is making sense to someone!

So, in a way, I see love as being told stories about life. If someone cares enough about you to tell you about their life, about what makes them tick, then that is love to me

Care enough to let you into their head maybe? Maybe I struggle to give love as I cannot let anyone in my head. I can't tell them my stories? I did with that last pastor and eventually it made him run. Maybe that's why it hurt so much? I cared enough to let him in and he abandoned me? So much abandonment in my life. I know that plays a role in here somewhere. It's what my dad is doing...again.

My therapist talked about eye contact last session. I can't look people in the eyes. He said to practice it but i can't. I look at their forehead. It looks like eye contact but isn't. I'm an artist and the first thing I draw are the eyes. The eyes tell so much. I can't let anyone see that. That far into my soul (or whatever that is).

 

[EveHarrington]

I have believed for awhile now that one of the greatest things we can do for anyone is to accept them as they are, where they are. I think this is love.

I try to not think of love as this pie in the sky “out there” concept that is hard to obtain. I think that small gestures can be loving, ie complimenting someone on their cute sweater.....with the other end of the love spectrum being deep, lasting love that endured through the good and the bad.

 

[Changing4Best]

I saw this book in with the ones advertised here (in this thread) and so I bought it yesterday, after reading parts of this thread. I realized there is more to know about love. I don't know if it will show up, so it is entitled, "REAL LOVE: The art of mindful connection" by Sharon Salzberg.

I started reading it already on Kindle. It is interesting!

 

[NaeNae75]

I thought I was in love with my ex. I was wrong. But the break up really hurt and it fractured something in me or a wall came up or something. I blocked that part out. So I can't be hurt like that again.

What makes you were wrong? Are you saying it wasn't love because you were hurt?

I have believed for awhile now that one of the greatest things we can do for anyone is to accept them as they are, where they are. I think this is love.

I agree with this completely. It's a beautiful statement!

I try to not think of love as this pie in the sky “out there” concept that is hard to obtain. I think that small gestures can be loving, ie complimenting someone on their cute sweater.....with the other end of the love spectrum being deep, lasting love that endured through the good and the bad.

Again, I couldn't agree more. I think too many people get caught up with the pie in the sky feelings being there or not there. I think this does love a real disservice. Because those feelings can be interrupted by other or darker feelings, especially with the PTSD crowd. Distorted conditions, numbing, dissociation, etc interrupt feelings of love, but that doesn't mean that love no longer exists.

This is the part I think a lot of people struggle with. That love can be felt, but it's more than that. Honestly, I don't even know how to verbalize my thoughts about it.

But I know that it's fairly widely accepted that you can't love anyone else more than you can love yourself. I'm not sure how this always works, but I think it might be true. I know that once I started feeling worthy myself, I could love more deeply. The downside is, my "other" isn't the right now and it feels so debilitating to know now that no matter how deeply I love him, he won't be able to receive or return it until he's better. It feels very unfair.

So, I guess, the only way to get anywhere with this, is through self love first. It's honestly the hardest thing I've ever undertaken. I'm not completely there, but at least now I've been brave enough to unlock the door. I don't know if my feet are even out of the door yet.

I think this is an essential part of any treatment plan too. It's scary, but it's only going to lead to better things. I feel I have to believe that.
I talk about Brene Brown on here a lot. I think I can identify with her and her work because it's based in research and not feelings (per se). I think that makes it more tangible to me. I can detach and read her stuff, and see it as true. Her perspective has helped me on this subject. Her approach is somewhat systematic, so it's easier to conceptualize. So thanks to her, I feel safer to move forward in searching for life and feeling worthy of it.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

What makes you were wrong? Are you saying it wasn't love because you were hurt?

No. I think it's because he was abusive but not real sure. Also thought I was in love with my step father when I was 12 so maybe I'm still defining it that way?

love yourself.

*Grumble* too hard at the moment. Can't even imagine it and parts are going nuts at the thought of that. Maybe that's my issue? Ugh! I don't know!

REAL LOVE: The art of mindful connection"

Will take a look at it. Dyslexic so not a big reader but will take a look at it.

 

[PreciousChild]

I saw this book in with the ones advertised here (in this thread) and so I bought it yesterday, after reading parts of this thread. I realized there is more to know about love. I don't know if it will show up, so it is entitled, "REAL LOVE: The art of mindful connection" by Sharon Salzberg.

I started reading it already on Kindle. It is interesting!

I heard Salzberg speak once and thought she was really wise. She's big into meditation and mindfulness. I'd love to check her book out.

If you accept it, I wanted to give you a hug for this:

*Grumble* too hard at the moment. Can't even imagine it and parts are going nuts at the thought of that. Maybe that's my issue? Ugh! I don't know!

It's hard going through life when your very existence is dissonant. Accept, reject, love, hate yourself.... I like what Eve said and I think acceptance begins with oneself in a deep way where you can never reject or hate yourself no matter what, only love. We can hate or reject stupid choices we make, or stuff that we do. But I think there has to be an underlying, unconditional self acceptance and love that is the beginning point of light. I think the love of others and the ability to receive love comes from that.

I have believed for awhile now that one of the greatest things we can do for anyone is to accept them as they are, where they are. I think this is love.