General What are they thinking?

[Abstract]

I kind of came to the conclusion last night that I do like myself now. In fact, I think I might actually be a heck of a catch. Like my self confidence is pretty good right now.

This I love. ?

 

[NaeNae75]

Thank you! I'm less confident today, but I'll get back there. He's pretty numb right now, and there's not a dang thing I can do about that but hope he works through it in therapy and EMDR. I'm not planning on going anywhere in the meantime, though.

 

[NaeNae75]

I hate to keep bothering you, but I have so many questions, and I know he's just not going to be ready for them anytime soon. I know you say you tell your husband periodically that you want a divorce, then you have to have a cooling off period. Before you were married, did you ever break up with him? If so, did you keep in somewhat regular contact or get back to him once you were in a better place? What did he do?
I know that K keeps in regular, but sterile contact. Sometimes he's loving, sometimes he can't be, so hes a bit cold. But at least he does, I guess. He's generally still willing to do things, but it can't be anything emotionally heavy...so we all just go have "fun". Even though he doesn't always seem to have fun, he seems to understand it's good for the kids.

How much did things change for you when you started therapy? Was it worse for a bit, how did you react with him then? Same question with EMDR?

I think I'm trying to get myself geared up for this to be a pretty bumpy ride. I believe him when he says he loves me. I also believe him when he says he has no feelings. But, I don't think that this necessarily translates into forever...especially with treatment having just begun. I also am not blind to the notion that this could and will likely be a very long process. But I guess the thing is, I've already got 8.5 years invested, so what's a bit more? Also, honestly, he's my person. He's the one person in my life I would feel comfortable with calling my soulmate. See, I've dated a couple of awful guys, and I've dated a couple of really good guys. But he's just different. He has his good and his bad. I just love him.....all of it, the good and the bad. So I'm trying to find the healthiest way to stay invested.

I'm unwilling to become co-dependent or enable him, I want to support him and let him be him. I might be a fool, but I genuinely believe that when he's not symptomatic, he feels the same. I feel that the only reason we haven't gotten married is because his ex wife is a huge part of his trauma, and being "forced" to marry her is a hangup. He told me that's one of the first things he told the therapist he wants to work on. He said, part of the reason is so he might be able to "really" figure out how to progress with me.

So, I know he's not the same as you, but a lot of the things you and others on here have said resonate with what he says. It's actually spooky sometimes. I think him not being cruel to me, and telling me he loves me, and trying to continue to keep our family as whole as possible are healthy signs. I guess if I'm wrong, I'll know soon enough. It breaks my heart that he doesn't "want me" but it's because he doesn't want anyone. I'm working on coming to terms with that. But I have to come to terms with it whether we reunite or not, sooooo....that's my thought. In the meantime, I'm going to hold down the fort.

Than you again for starting and continuing this. It seems helpful to both sides.

 

[Freida]

@NaeNae75 you aren't bothering me :hug: that's why I started this thread, to try to sort out the fun that is ptsd from both sides. I'm really happy it is still going because I have learned so very much!

You have to remember that I only got diagnosed 5 years ago - so for the 19 we were together before that I was just...flighty/bitchy I guess is the best description LOL.

Before you were married, did you ever break up with him?

I need to sit him down and get some of these answers from him LOL -- but as I see it....
So we ended up moving in together not long after we met because I was offered a job in another city and he was kind of at loose ends. I told him he had 6 weeks to get a job and get established or get out. And, he's still around.

We were together 10 years before I even agreed to talk about marriage. Why? dunno. I guess I didn't like the finality of it? Feeling trapped? We had problems on and off, but he is so laid back that it didn't really phase him when I got all twitterpaited. He did say to me once that it took him about 5 years before he was confident that I would still be there when he got home each day -- which looking back makes me sad.

I have always had horrible nightmares that I didn't remember and one of the first things he learned was never to touch me or I would punch him. And I insisted on having big dogs --rotties and german shepards. Hes a cat fan so that didn't go over well but it wasn't open for discussion. I was also stressed a lot but everyone put that down to working at 911 (bunch of type A control freaks stuffed into one room dealing with emergencies and stupid people -- we were ALWAYS stressed :laugh: ) I think if our journey had started now and not back in the 90s the warning signs would have made more sense because ptsd is so much more well known.

There have been many times I've been in that "I love you but can't feel it" phase. Why is he still around? Probably because he refused to move out.
LOL - ok so he just wandered in so I asked him. He says he thinks it's because he's really laid back to begin with. Not much agitates him --he's kind of my polar opposite. Plus he says he's a guy so he doesn't get caught up in the "challenge to my self worth" thing that a lot of women have. When I'm symptomatic he say he just leaves me alone or avoids me LOL.

How much did things change for you when you started therapy? Was it worse for a bit, how did you react with him then? Same question with EMDR?

Honestly? It has been a shit show of epic proportions and we were totally unprepared. The last couple years have been really hard because I was so unprepared for the diagnosis and the memories that came with it. It hit me like a freight train. I know the one thing I do that totally pisses him off is when I try to deny how bad it is. When I took disability from work our lifestyle took a huge hit. I had a good job with really good benefits -- now that is all on him and right now he is working a job he hates but can't quit. And of course I blame myself-which really annoys the crap out of him :rolleyes:

EMDR is tough because he can't help me and it takes a full 24 hours for me to snap out of it. I don't know what I want -- so he can't do anything right. So he just kind of hangs out at the other end of the house until I wake up.

It's actually spooky sometimes.

yea it is -- which is why i LOVE this site. I finally found people who think like me!

 

[Friday]

He did say to me once that it took him about 5 years before he was confident that I would still be there when he got home each day -- which looking back makes me sad.

You could flip this around. You were just that cool, that even if today was the last day you were in his life? He thought that was worth it. And himself? Just that brave.

 

[HopefulD]

When a sufferer isolates and has cut off a loved one completely, do they ever miss that person or feel sad because they pushed them away? Also, do you ever think about what you did and feel guilty or upset for hurting that person? I just wanted to know if this ever occurs asymptomatic or symptomatic. Thanks.

 

[NaeNae75]

You could flip this around. You were just that cool, that even if today was the last day you were in his life? He thought that was worth it. And himself? Just that brave.

Friday....phrased beautifully!

I like to think of things that way in my situation too. I stick around because I'm confident after all this time, I know him pretty well, and I still love him because of it - ALL OF IT. I'm amazed by him and fall further in love with him every day we get to be together. I know it's probably hard as hell for him to stay in contact with me right now, but he does. He is, like beautiful, wonderful @Freida , just that cool!

I want to touch on the brave comment for a second. It honestly makes me want to exhale hearing that, then inhale the positive energy of it so deeply! I think that's how I want to be seen for being here, quietly (and not so quietly)waiting for him to heal in his own time and on his own terms. But I feel most people look at me the opposite: as a fool, pathetic, blind, codependent, or in denial or something like that. The thing is, I don't see myself that way at all. I keep my life together(at least as together as I am any other day), I don't feel like a victim or martyr, or crawl in a hole, etc. I work through every day trying to improve and be better while I wait for him to get out of his bad place. I try to be there for him when he needs someone to talk to, try to help out with day to day stuff (when he'll even let me), I don't push, I don't make him the center of my universe. I'm trying to trust him to work through his stuff, and not fix him. But in the meantime, I don't desert him either...even when he tries to force me to do it.

So, I hope I can own a little of that "brave" too. Because that makes me feel, I don't know - respected instead of looked at as a joke. It's hard enough to deal with his pushing, having people belittle me for it just pisses me off. I'm not crying in a tub of flippin ice cream drowning my sorrows in whipped cream and cherries. I'm busy trying to be healthy, and productive, and advancing our families life. So thanks!

 

[NaeNae75]

@NaeNae75 you aren't bothering me :hug: that's why I started this thread, to try to sort out the fun that is ptsd from both sides. I'm really happy it is still going because I have learned so very much!

You have to remember that I only got diagnosed 5 years ago - so for the 19 we were together before that I was just...flighty/bitchy I guess is the best description LOL.

I need to sit him down and get some of these answers from him LOL -- but as I see it....
So we ended up moving in together not long after we met because I was offered a job in another city and he was kind of at loose ends. I told him he had 6 weeks to get a job and get established or get out. And, he's still around.

We were together 10 years before I even agreed to talk about marriage. Why? dunno. I guess I didn't like the finality of it? Feeling trapped? We had problems on and off, but he is so laid back that it didn't really phase him when I got all twitterpaited. He did say to me once that it took him about 5 years before he was confident that I would still be there when he got home each day -- which looking back makes me sad.

I have always had horrible nightmares that I didn't remember and one of the first things he learned was never to touch me or I would punch him. And I insisted on having big dogs --rotties and german shepards. Hes a cat fan so that didn't go over well but it wasn't open for discussion. I was also stressed a lot but everyone put that down to working at 911 (bunch of type A control freaks stuffed into one room dealing with emergencies and stupid people -- we were ALWAYS stressed :laugh: ) I think if our journey had started now and not back in the 90s the warning signs would have made more sense because ptsd is so much more well known.

There have been many times I've been in that "I love you but can't feel it" phase. Why is he still around? Probably because he refused to move out.
LOL - ok so he just wandered in so I asked him. He says he thinks it's because he's really laid back to begin with. Not much agitates him --he's kind of my polar opposite. Plus he says he's a guy so he doesn't get caught up in the "challenge to my self worth" thing that a lot of women have. When I'm symptomatic he say he just leaves me alone or avoids me LOL.


Honestly? It has been a shit show of epic proportions and we were totally unprepared. The last couple years have been really hard because I was so unprepared for the diagnosis and the memories that came with it. It hit me like a freight train. I know the one thing I do that totally pisses him off is when I try to deny how bad it is. When I took disability from work our lifestyle took a huge hit. I had a good job with really good benefits -- now that is all on him and right now he is working a job he hates but can't quit. And of course I blame myself-which really annoys the crap out of him :rolleyes:

EMDR is tough because he can't help me and it takes a full 24 hours for me to snap out of it. I don't know what I want -- so he can't do anything right. So he just kind of hangs out at the other end of the house until I wake up.


yea it is -- which is why i LOVE this site. I finally found people who think like me!

I swear, I wish I knew you IRL! We would drink so much coffee and hang out at the farm! I just "get" you. I can't tell if it's because I relate to you as a PTSD woman, or if I relate to you because you're so much like him...hmmmmm maybe a mixture of both!

Knowing that you've been where we are so many times, and you kind of make it work, as YOUR unconventional normal gives me hope. The only thing that's different is that we don't live together. I think that makes it harder and easier at the same time. I take solace everyday that I know he loves me. Hopefully once he realizes that being numb makes him "incapable" of being "in love" and that's kind of normal in these situations, that we can progress a bit.

It's easier because I know what it feels like to be numb...I spent the first half, no- 3/4 of my life totally numb and in my head. I was in logical relationships. Relationships that I could make sense of on paper. I suppose I cared, but not totally, that would be too vulnerable. But now, I feel that I've gotten past that with him. Honestly, his own "damage" is probably why I could let my guard down, because he understood.

I think the only thing I go round and round in my head is, is this what I can handle forever? I want to say yes, but I can't look that far ahead, it's not real. All I know is that any day I get to spend with him is a "win" in my book because he's pretty amazing. Him screwed up is better than any other guy I know "normal". Considering I work with 99% men, that says something!

Your trials, both past and current - resonate with me thoroughly. I'm feeling pretty rejuvenated after my mini-meltdown last week/weekend. I needed rest, and I took it. I took it with being disappointed in myself, but at least I'm strong enough now to make up for it! I'm not sure how it's going to work out, because I can't control anything he does, but I can work it on my "half". I guess if I'm not going anywhere, and we're still doing stuff with the family and together...there's at least a chance. I might change my mind, but I'm okay with it for now.

Thank you for being such an open book here. I hope it's helping you as much as it's helping the rest of us. I feel like I owe you dinner!

 

[Tinyflame]

I was thinking today that many of us impose a self-isolated 'hell' of sorts on ourself. Sometimes it's just isolation for need of it, and sometimes it seems best for ourselves or other(s), 'we', or maybe it's just 'me', don't question if anything else is 'right' or 'should be'.

Do they ever miss that person or feel sad because they pushed them away

^^ It would depend if they realize it's self-imposed, not the 'best' (and necessary) thing to do.

do you ever think about what you did and feel guilty or upset for hurting that person

^^ No, it doesn't seem there would be hurt if it's best for them?

So, I hope I can own a little of that "brave" too. Because that makes me feel, I don't know - respected instead of looked at as a joke.

^^ So you should be, and so you are. :hug:

(PS..Can I come for dinner...? ? ? ) :hug:

 

[NaeNae75]

I was thinking today that many of us impose a self-isolated 'hell' of sorts on ourself. Sometimes it's just isolation for need of it, and sometimes it seems best for ourselves or other(s), 'we', or maybe it's just 'me', don't question if anything else is 'right' or 'should be'.



^^ It would depend if they realize it's self-imposed, not the 'best' (and necessary) thing to do.



^^ No, it doesn't seem there would be hurt if it's best for them?



^^ So you should be, and so you are. :hug:

(PS..Can I come for dinner...? ? ? ) :hug:

Best for who in this scenario? The sufferer or supporter? I think here enlies the biggest disconnect of this entire conversation. You see, it seems the best to the survivor...but NOT the supporter. In other words, this happens because the sufferer assumes that it's the best. The reality is, that if the supporter told the sufferer what was best for them, there would be a huge uproar. Therefore, the reality is, that the supporter shouldn't have the decision of "what's best for them" taken away from them either.

Supporters are not blind to the horrors/atrocities of the world. The fact they don't have PTSD doesn't always come from a lack of trauma in their lives, it just means their brains process it differently. Not better, not worse, different. But, it is in fact, distorted thinking to assume based on the idolaters lens, that the supporter is better off, or that this unilateral decision is "what's best for them."

For the supporters that continue to support, really it just binds their hands on how to support. Which is fine, they have the choice to support or not. But if one is isolating, it is purely for the isolater, no matter how it appears in their rationalization for it. I'm once again, not saying this to judge. I totally understand the need for isolation at times. But I'm calling a spade a spade: it's the sufferer's defense mechanism...just like rationalizing it's what is good for the supporter is. Don't get me wrong...I also think it's perfectly within the sufferer/survivor to be "allowed" to isolate too, especially if they're trying to do it from a loving place. But they have to understand that it isn't really as selfless as an act as they wish it were.

It's okay to have self-preservation tactics...I totally get it and implement some of them myself at times. But I also realize, generally after the fact, that what I was doing wasn't for any other reason than self-preservation....to live. That's okay, but it doesn't make it inherently healthy. For me, what was healthy, was getting therapy and really letting the uneasy in little by little. It's the only way to really get past any of it. It sucks, and isn't 100%, but for me it's gotten WAY better.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but I'm just trying to be honest about my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but it seems like the only truth that honors "both sides". Honestly, in this type of situation, I think the best case scenerio is for the suffer/isolator to "announce" their need and for the supporter to accept it for what it is. But of course, that's a perfect world - and we don't live in that! I think from @Freida's description, her relationship seems pretty close. Her husband accept she needs it, so no harm no foul when rules are adhere'd to. For my situation, well we're close, but still a work in progress. But I think we do alright for the 8.5 years we've got in. Plus both of us playing both sufferer and supporter roles in our family at different times adds a special layer of sauce to the burger...but that's life.

As far as dinner goes, as long as you think you can stomach being around me, heck yeah! Pull up a dinner plate! I'm all about inclusivity! Whatcha hungry for? LOL

 

[HopefulD]

@NaeNae75 I echo your sentiments. My vet makes the decision to isolate based on his thought process. Makes a mountain out of a minor issue and or one that isn't even there. His I can't give you this, you deserve better than me, this won't work for a million reasons. Always the runaway anxiety mind racing a million miles an hour. Compounding the fear and causing a cascade of negative thoughts and fears. He uses the "I will sabotage this before it gets me. Because I want the best for you" tactic. Much like combat, get the enemy before it gets you.
I understand the anxiety part. I have anxiety. Also the negative tape that plays in his head of the worse case scenario and never the positive. Im a child abuse survivor.
I was wondering if at anytime the sufferer thought back and realized what their actions caused in the supporter. Do they ever miss us and the positive memories?
I never isolated like he does. Mine was a complete shutdown and wanting to hide away behind a locked door from everyone in peace and quiet. Trying to process all the thoughts. Short lived shut out of the noise so to speak.I felt guilty about my angry outbursts and would apologize. Felt ashamed of my behavior.
I just am at a loss with his isolation and fears. Trying to figure out if he just closes off all memories and feelings and it just doesn't cross his mind again??

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm sorry @NaeNae75 , didn't mean to offend. :(:sorry:

I;m sorry I have no time to address it properly, and you deserve that, just must go to work, I know people shouldn't think for others, I meant: best for the sufferer, or in the mind of the same sufferer, best, they can believe, for the supporter-when the sufferer cares about them, not just themself.