Need suggestions from self harmers - my 11 year old niece just started hurting herself

[Freida]

Niece has always been a bit off, good kid but horrible, horrible tantrums. No abuse history, fairly stable family, good in school, has friends, etc but just.... odd. Sis has been stuck in the "I can handle this, its just ADHD" attitude until niece hit 11 and things escalated really fast. They just got her started her in a clinic that does a holistic approach for kiddos - brain scans, therapy, family therapy, the whole bit.

Niece has hurt herself in the past during her tantrums - mostly banging her head or hitting herself but not really intentional harm if that makes sense? Then last night little niece came downstairs to and said big niece had asked her to go get a knife because she was cutting herself with a pencil but it wasn't "working." Sis held it together and said they had a good calm talk about why she was doing this, how she felt, blah blah. She texted me this morning... "Later she apologized for doing it and apologized this morning again. She said she feels hollow and empty even when she’s smiling. The kids got depression on top of everything else! My heart is breaking"

Right now sis is asking that we not talk to her about it because she is afraid it will add extra stress and that's just breaking my heart. I offered to post here to see if you from the been there/done that crowd have any suggestions on what we can do to help. Do I talk to her? Not talk to her? Let it go for now?

What could the adults around you have done better when you first started down this road?

help!

 

[EveHarrington]

The worst thing you can do right now is let it go IMHO. It just reinforces the idea that nobody cares, so what does it matter if I hurt myself? You don’t want her to be scarring herself for life.

 

[Kubash16]

Are you absolutely certain there is 100% no potential of past abuse? I’m not saying your sis or even the immediate family, but if you think of everyone who ever comes in contact with a kid you end up with a lot of potential.

Don’t just let it go. Absolutely don’t let it go. I did a ton of self harm and reckless behavior as a kid/teen and either no one saw it or no one gave a damn and both of those hurt almost worse than the abuse itself now days. I would push for at the very least individual therapy. Even if she doesn’t talk/cooperate at least the effort is there and later on she can see that when she was hurting people saw it, loved her, and tried to help the best way they could. What may happen in therapy is she may not talk right away but eventually she’s going to have a bad day and the counselor will be a captive audience for her to vent about it and the more that happens and the counselor doesn’t break trust the more she will open up.

 

[Chris-duck]

I self harmed from my early teens to early 20s, and it's funny cos my aunt was probably the most influential person in getting me to not. That's not pressure on you, it's just how it worked out for me. Like yeah, the self harm is a big deal, but it's more -why- she's doing it that matters. I'd say talk to her about it if you have that sorta relationship (And it wouldn't be too much for you! Own oxygen mask first n all that), I don't have owt to offer to make her stop, just normal making sure she feels heard shit that you already know. Sorry.

 

[Juso]

Oh as a little child I did the same, hitting myself and banging my head against things. I think its about not being able to regulate one's emotions (obviously), but that can have so many reasons. I don't even know why I did it back then. Maybe some people have tendencies or predispositions.
Hmm. Of course it should not be ignored - though I am unsure about what to do exactly. Therapy might be a good approach, just in general suggesting techniques to handle overwhelming emotions?

 

[ILoveLife]

She needs comfort from her parents. Support thorough and thorough. Like emotional support, not just putting her in therapy.

 

[Friday]

Do I talk to her? Not talk to her? Let it go for now?

Let it go, for now.

1. Your sis has turned to you for support for herself. It sounds like she’s doing great with your niece

((Puberty and ADHD are brutal time periods, both for the kids in it and the parents dealing with it. Having done both. Seriously, just like there’s PTSD-Hell, there’s also ADHD-Hell, and toddlers/ puberty/ pregnancy are notoriously :wtf::banghead: deep in it as you relearn self control under the influence of hormones // &or are attempting to teach-survive someone else learning it >>> very similar to being triggered on an anniversary. It sucks. Times a million. For both the person dealing with it, and the people who love them who are trying to help them through it. The major difference meltdown wise between ADHD & PTSD? PTSD only gets dysregulated in one area. The fight/flight lashing out worst case scenario stress cup triggered bulkshit. ADHD? Gets dysregulated across ALL areas. The DBT stuff used for PTSD and BPD? :hilarious: Compared to the emotional monitoring and regulation needed for ADHD, DBT is like a kids tool set next to someone working on a car with real tools. Pathetic, puny, and completely ill suited to the task. It’s fantastic for PTSD & BPD, where the dysreg is coming from one very narrow place, with one very narrow range of expressions. It’s nowhere near up to the task of dealing with ADHD or Spectrum Disorders.))

Your sis not only already has your niece in therapy but is also managing day to day at home in very proactive ways... sounds very much like she just needs someone to have her back as she’s exhausted & hurting & feeling very alone (and scared, and desperate to be doing the right thing).

If it helps? (I love kicking parenting -especially special needs parenting- with emergency services. So many spot on parallels). Think of your niece as an EDP & your sister is your Officer. Who do you support? Who needs your calm, and your unwavering “You’ve got this.” ??? Even if you know the EDP, like it’s another officer in distress, you throw your support where? The person with eyes-on, right? Who is managing the very delicate balance, and split second timing, and series of judgment calls necessary to be handling the situation.

2. Don’t undermine or second guess your man in the field.

I said Officer, above, but after 11 years of dealing with the day in and day out, your sis is much more like the lead negotiator or tac team CO. She’s got this, as much as anyone can. She just needs you as backup. Scratch that. It’s more than that. She wants you as her backup. (Being needed? Is only almost as good as being wanted.)

And she’s asked you not to step in with your niece for now. Trust that.

Adolescence for ADHD is brutal. Far worse than normal teenage years for neurotypical kids. Roller coaster emotions plus zero innate impulse control ...again, the closest I can link it to is being drunk (lousy self control / lowered inhibitions) whilst being triggered, on an anniversary. Except, unlike PTSD, it doesn’t go away. The panic attack doesn’t slow down, the anniversary doesn’t pass, the drunk can’t be slept off. Imagine your worst triggered out of control episode... and then imagine it didn’t stop. That’s ADHD. You don’t ground ADHD. You learn to act and think normally despite that level of wild out of control. And you have to do it 3 times if you’re a chick ... as a toddler, at puberty, and at menopause.

3. Trust yourself. You’ve done this before. Countless times. You know what to do, and how to do it. You’re Dispatch. You’ve got this. Both parties are safe as houses in your hands.

 

[Freida]

Thanks all!!!

The worst thing you can do right now is let it go IMHO.

I would push for at the very least individual therapy.

Yep - sis has her starting in a kid program that is supposed to be really good - talk about timing.

Are you absolutely certain there is 100% no potential of past abuse? I’

as sure as I can be... She's been like this since she was little so there hasn't been a big change in behavoir so much as an escalation. If that makes sense?

What may happen in therapy is she may not talk right away but eventually she’s going to have a bad day and the counselor will be a captive audience for her to vent about it and the more that happens and the counselor doesn’t break trust the more she will open up.

This is what I really needed to hear -- that kids will share if they feel like they can trust the therapist

I'd say talk to her about it if you have that sorta relationship

We've got a really good realationship so you can imagine how hard it is for me to keep my mouth shut! But if that's what Sis needs I'm ok with it. She just wanted to get an idea from those who may have gone thru this that she was on the right track by keeping it between her and niece

Like emotional support, not just putting her in therapy.

Yea...this might be problmoatic. Dad is a bit ...distant. Nice guy, not abusive, just not terribly connected.

It sounds like she’s doing great with your niece

thank you! that makes us both happy!

your sis is much more like the lead negotiator or tac team CO. She’s got this, as much as anyone can. She just needs you as backup. Scratch that. It’s more than that. She wants you as her backup.

You’re Dispatch. You’ve got this. Both parties are safe as houses in your hands.

ah yes -- words I can connect with! I like the lead negotiator concept -- I'll come in to secure the scene if needed but in the meantime all they need is to know I care and I'm there if they need me.

 

[Freida]

Talked with sis this am and gave her all your words of wisdom. Made her cry --- she couldn't get her head wrapped around the idea that parents wouldn't care. She says to say thank you -- it was very reassuring for her to hear that she was on the right track. If you think of anything else let me know. she will take all the help she can get :)

 

[Freida]

Sis and I just had a good talk.... We are thinking about me talking with niece next weekend about me having ptsd and what that looks like in my life. I can give her the kid friendly version and maybe help her see that even if things don't work in your head like you want them too you can still be ok.

Thoughts??

 

[somerandomguy]

YES!!!! I think that would be a wonderful idea. I remember as a kid I felt so alone - there wasn't ONE caring adult in my life. I know that's not your niece's experience, but the more caring adults a kid has in their life, the better.

 

[cece]

Niece has always been a bit off, good kid but horrible, horrible tantrums. No abuse history, fairly stable family, good in school, has friends, etc but just.... odd. Sis has been stuck in the "I can handle this, its just ADHD" attitude until niece hit 11 and things escalated really fast. They just got her started her in a clinic that does a holistic approach for kiddos - brain scans, therapy, family therapy, the whole bit.

Niece has hurt herself in the past during her tantrums - mostly banging her head or hitting herself but not really intentional harm if that makes sense? Then last night little niece came downstairs to and said big niece had asked her to go get a knife because she was cutting herself with a pencil but it wasn't "working." Sis held it together and said they had a good calm talk about why she was doing this, how she felt, blah blah. She texted me this morning... "Later she apologized for doing it and apologized this morning again. She said she feels hollow and empty even when she’s smiling. The kids got depression on top of everything else! My heart is breaking"

Right now sis is asking that we not talk to her about it because she is afraid it will add extra stress and that's just breaking my heart. I offered to post here to see if you from the been there/done that crowd have any suggestions on what we can do to help. Do I talk to her? Not talk to her? Let it go for now?

What could the adults around you have done better when you first started down this road?

help!

The fact that your niece say's she feels hollow and empty even when she is smiling feels like maybe there might be some emotional invalidation going on. She feels hollow and empty because the core of her, her emotional content, is being negated. We ARE our emotions; without our emotions we are simply automatons going through the motions of life. From the outside looking in, it seems your sister is minimizing a symptom; worse, making it all about ADHD and/or a health problem. Why is she minimizing what is a very clear sign something is amiss? Maybe she wants the attention directed elsewhere; who is to say what or who that elsewhere is. Maybe one of her other children or herself, or significant other? You know better than anybody your family dynamic. Is there obvious favoritism going on? Is there an obvious scapegoat, i.e. identified patient aka the family trouble maker? Is there a magical child who can do no wrong? Only you can say. Your niece may have ADHD, but that does not negate somewhere along the line she is begging for ATTENTION. You say your family has no history of abuse, however, if your niece is being emotionally neglected, she is being abused.

Excuse me for saying, I'm not impressed with your sister minimizing a clear red flag. I'm also not impressed with her not wanting the rest of you to talk to your niece about it. What happens if your niece seriously injures herself? Does the possibility of a tragic outcome not mean anything to her? This just makes NO SENSE unless she herself is trying to hide something.